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Forums - Politics Discussion - A French teacher beheaded, chaos ensues, EU warns Turkey of sanctions

HollyGamer said:

That's incorrect, Muslim are not defending the terrorist's , they are mad because Macron trying to agitated by burning another fire and fuel to the problem and telling Islam is in crisis.  And allow people to slender an important person in Islam. This problem should have just end if Macron did not slandering Islam and the prophet.

Even Napoleon Bonaparte respect the Prophet and Islam, you can find Napoleon quote in the Internet  https://www.warhistoryonline.com/featured/did-you-know-napoleon-was-a-serious-admirer-of-islam.html

Macron should have knew Islam is a big religion and his country doing a business with Muslim country. 

If this is so, why aren't there any demonstrations against, you know, the mere assassination?

You have to understand how ridiculous this situation looks over here. America, for example, is a 75% Christian country demographically wherein Jesus Christ is parodied on TV programs like South Park all the time and nobody dies as a result. Now there are many conservative Christians who are offended by such things and who in the past have been known to protest and even try to have programs like South Park censored or taken off the air altogether, but those people didn't represent the prevailing opinion of the nation and nobody died.

Likewise, people "slander" me every day on the internet. Do I behead them in response? Well I feel like it sometimes momentarily, but no, I choose not to act on that impulse because that would be retarded. But maybe there's too much commentary on religion itself implied here in this statement.

I guess what I'm trying to get at here is that I don't really understand this level of upset over the idea of being criticized. I understand finding the criticism of one's faith unpleasant, but generally in the Western world you'll find that people (who aren't the current president of the United States) get over being criticized because it's not actually the end of the world. It's not like people in Muslim-majority countries generally grant people the right to freedom of religious belief or respect other people's faiths at all -- I mean most of the world's remaining theocracies are Islamic ones if I'm not mistaken -- so there just seems to be a massive amount of hypocrisy going on in such people marching against the mere criticism of Islam to the neglect of the context in which said criticism took place, claiming that their freedom of religion has been violated by words; by other people's freedom of speech. No Muslim's right to belief and to worship has been hindered here. Someone has died though. In fact, many people have died at this point.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 07 November 2020

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Barozi said:
HollyGamer said:

And also in my opinion, Christian should respect Jesus more if they still believe in their religion. It's sad many Cristian is not Christian anymore. If they love Jesus they should at least angry with many seculars person make fun of Jesus. Me as Muslim sad to see Jesus treated that way.

Thing is, if Jesus was really like the bible portrayed him to be, he wouldn't give a fuck about what other people say about him.

That's why modern Christians aren't going to be as angry about it when someone mocks him. If Jesus wouldn't care, why would I?

Not sure if I can say the same about Muhammad.

That's because the bible that you read is still debatable if it's still the original bible or not according to some expert. Muslim believe that Jesus did not crucified and God did not let him die and scarified , we Muslim respect Jesus , Moses, Abraham, Noah and every apostle and Prophet . Because Muslim believe that Jesus brought the same messages to worship One God alone. And Jesus is son of Maryam is a prophet like Muhammad and Moses.  



Jaicee said:

As I scan this thread and review this unfolding story, I notice that there are two things here: words and deeds. Macron's statements on Islam are words. They were offered in response to a beheading. That's a deed. You can't help but notice which seems to offend so many Muslims the world over more.

Maybe I'm getting it wrong, but what this situation looks like to me is a bunch of Muslims all over the world marching and protesting in defense of a terrorist. I can only hope I'm misunderstanding.

Precisely so, this is why I'm strongly against any argument or position that asserts that violence is a legitimate and acceptable answer to rhetoric, words, or expressed ideas. It sets an extremely dangerous precedent.

This is how our very own mass-murdering Anders Breivik functioned; he saw ideas, heard words and rhetoric, and deemed it acceptable, and even necessary, to murder the ones sharing and developing these ideas and words based on a heartfelt desire to promote a safer and better society. He himself was equally convinced that he was in actual fact the hero, based on his own unique, dogmatic schism.

Words are words, murder is murder, whether commited by the state or an individual, a sect, or a secular body with judicial weight. Blasphemy is an archaic notion that belongs in history books; not as guiding principles on whose heads deserve to remain attached to their torso. 



Jaicee said:
HollyGamer said:

That's incorrect, Muslim are not defending the terrorist's , they are mad because Macron trying to agitated by burning another fire and fuel to the problem and telling Islam is in crisis.  And allow people to slender an important person in Islam. This problem should have just end if Macron did not slandering Islam and the prophet.

Even Napoleon Bonaparte respect the Prophet and Islam, you can find Napoleon quote in the Internet  https://www.warhistoryonline.com/featured/did-you-know-napoleon-was-a-serious-admirer-of-islam.html

Macron should have knew Islam is a big religion and his country doing a business with Muslim country. 

If this is so, why aren't there any demonstrations against, you know, the mere assassination?

You have to understand how ridiculous this situation looks over here. America, for example, is a 75% Christian country demographically wherein Jesus Christ is parodied on TV programs like South Park all the time and nobody dies as a result. Now there are many conservative Christians who are offended by such things and who in the past have been known to protest and even try to have programs like South Park censored or taken off the air altogether, but those people didn't represent the prevailing opinion of the nation and nobody died.

Likewise, people "slander" me every day on the internet. Do I behead them in response? Well I feel like it sometimes momentarily, but no, I choose not to act on that impulse because that would be retarded. But maybe there's too much commentary on religion itself implied here in this statement.

I guess what I'm trying to get at here is that I don't really understand this level of upset over the idea of being criticized. I understand finding the criticism of one's faith unpleasant, but generally in the Western world you'll find that people (who aren't the current president of the United States) get over being criticized because it's not actually the end of the world. It's not like people in Muslim-majority countries generally grant people the right to freedom of religious belief or respect other people's faiths at all -- I mean most of the world's remaining theocracies are Islamic ones if I'm not mistaken -- so there just seems to be a massive amount of hypocrisy going on in such people marching against the mere criticism of Islam to the neglect of the context in which said criticism took place, claiming that their freedom of religion has been violated by words; by other people's freedom of speech. No Muslim's right to belief and to worship has been hindered here. Someone has died though. In fact, many people have died at this point.

You said by your self, it's mere assassination's by a terrorist's, any terrorist's are not affiliate with any religion Religion. No religion allow to kill anyone without some reasoning and cause. 

Muslim already condemned the killing act, but the problem is Macron make it bigger by blaming Muslim , blaming the religion, and allowing another slandering act and protected as free speech but at the same time hurting  Muslim around the world. 

The problem should have ended if Macron did not blame Islam and Muslim. 



HollyGamer said:

You said by your self, it's mere assassination's by a terrorist's, any terrorist's are not affiliate with any religion Religion. No religion allow to kill anyone without some reasoning and cause. 

Muslim already condemned the killing act, but the problem is Macron make it bigger by blaming Muslim , blaming the religion, and allowing another slandering act and protected as free speech but at the same time hurting  Muslim around the world. 

The problem should have ended if Macron did not blame Islam and Muslim. 

So like for example when an organization calls itself the Islamic State, that's a non-religious organization, you're saying?

I think it's worth being serious about getting to the roots of why terrorists commit acts of terror. Whether it's considered politically correct or not to say as much (the French people being known for their brutal frankness), religion definitely was the motive here. That's just a fact.

Also, I was obviously being sarcastic when I said "the mere assassination" before. The taking of someone's life is obviously the more genuine and serious issue here. It's obviously a big deal.

This is about intolerance. Macron was criticizing intolerant elements within Islam in response to a beheading. That's not irrational or unjustified. As an atheist lesbian myself, I can't help agreeing with the view that says most Muslims around the world are quite a bit more bigoted against me than I am against them. They would generally take away my right to be an atheist, my right to love other women, and hell maybe even my right to leave my house without the accompany of a male guardian because, being merely a woman, I'm not even thought of as an adult let alone their equal. Despite these realities, the unconditional respect of your faith by everyone on the globe is demanded. No. That's not how it works. If you want the respect of others, you have to treat them with the same level of respect you demand from them.

You can believe whatever you want, I don't care. But what you can't do is demand that I practice your faith or that I respect hypocrites.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 07 November 2020

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Pemalite said:
HollyGamer said:

If in VGchart a  moderator  can ban people if agitating other member does that also applied on free speech, can I slender you or agitating you, or attacking you , does free speech only applied on certain people or group??? 

 religion or faith is matter of life and death for people, I think western society need to learn from Islam, many western people has been revert to Islam

That is not how free speech works.

Free speech does not and has not ever entitled you to say whatever you desire without restriction, in-fact free-speech is full of restrictions.

Yet what happen in France is they mocking the prophet, slandering, and ridiculed the prophet based on false accusation 

 
If you are getting upset over my commentary, then I apologize, but I still stand by my comments... No it is absolutely not slander, as I am not targeting my commentary at you as an individual... I don't necessarily like or dislike you as a person, I haven't met you, but I take issue with religion.

Not at all , I am not offended by anyone in here on this thread  , my comment is about why Macron defending free speech but at the same time what he did is not protecting free speech at all. 


Religion and faith should not be a matter of life and death, life should always come first, period.

That's your opinion,  I respect that, but for me and Muslim . Religion is part of life and death. And Muslim believe there is life after death.

I think we could all learn from Atheism, science and sound logical reasoning rather than religious indoctrination that uses the power of fear and condemnation to ensure compliance.

Again this your opinion, we are not here to discuss a religion,  but moral according to their own rule. We can discuss on another thread discussing about which one is correct.

HollyGamer said:

You it self is the prove. Life cannot exist with just some probability. Even our smallest part (DNA) work like an intelligent being on it's own

Probability? Never claimed any such thing.

DNA or deoxyribonucleic acid acting like an intelligent being? No. Our DNA is not sentient. This topic is probably to far out of your depth if this statement is an appropriate gauge.

Again, this will lead to a bigger discussion, so i will end the discussion here. 

HollyGamer said:

a tool exist to keep people behave, and God know this so he teach us . 

Any highly developed, Atheistic nation has proven that religion isn't required to ensure appropriate behavior.

Again this is debatable, we are not here to discuss which one is correct way and methode 


If anything, religion has taught us the opposite... That religion helps breed extremism in various forms... Hence Islamist terrorists, Christian terrorists... Anti-women, attacks on LGBT rights and so much more.
Religious history is marred by war and abuse... How many priests have abused children? To many to count.

Again this debatable but for sure, but don't forget many has been killed in the name of atheism like Marxism, and etc. 

HollyGamer said:

Law of the ruler, but he can be Muslim and follow other country  ruler.

I don't dispute that... This is where I tend to be extremely conservative... And that if anyone intends to migrate to my country and ignore the law of the land and instead follow their religious indoctrination, then stay out. You aren't welcome.

Muslim has been living on non Muslim place since the day of the prophet, they spreading in China, Europe, Asia and etc. Under non Muslim ruled country  . Islam teach to respect the local rule . 

HollyGamer said:

Some part of the Torah text has been proven altered, the Original Torah was  made by God , but the original Torah are not maintained by the Jew and many Jew has hide some of the text and insert by their own writing to benefit their lust (the same thing with how the church did by altering the bible text ) . The same thing with the bible , Muslim believe in bible but not "Today" bible that even many high priest agree the original text has been lost. Qur'an it self are consisted of the correct version of bible and Torah , God has  preserve the original Torah and bible inside Qur'an.

All religious text has been altered.

There is no evidence a God has existed and made the Torah. Prove me otherwise. Try it.

Again this will create another debate out of this topic. I will end here

The Quran is just another interpretation, what people "believe" is ultimately irrellevent, there is no evidence that supports any particular religion as being the "true" or "correct" or "unaltered" religion.

But what is absolutely true is that the Jewish Torah is the first of the three religions, it's the oldest.

Again this will create another debate out of this topic. I will end here

HollyGamer said:

We believe in Qur'an because our Qur'an never been altered , the Qur'an was originally came with Arabic language from God to Muhammad by revelation, and then the prophet asked their companion to write it down to stone, animal skin and date tree and oak (the original stone, and animal skin still exist today and has been proven exist form the day of the prophet ). And then told all companion to memorize it, and in the end of Ramadhan they try to memorize it and preserve it https://onepathnetwork.com/the-history-of-the-preservation-of-the-quran/

The thing with language is that it actually changes over time.
A word can have one meaning in one century... And a completely different meaning in another.

Qur'an never  changed, in fact Arabic grammatical word came from Qur'an. Before Qur'an exist the Arab did not have grammar

At one point the word "Gay" was oft-used to term someone who felt happy... But fast forward 100~ years and it is referenced to someone who is homosexual.

Thus texts, whether it be religious or otherwise does and should change to adapt, but my point isn't about that... My point is that you have so many denominations (Even in the Muslim world I.E. Sunni, Shia etc') where they take on a different "interpretation" of the religious texts and interpret it in their own way to fit a certain narrative and that is fallacious.

Again the shia is not Muslim because they don't believe in Qur'an  but that's for another topic. They are minority who reject Islam as teaching but pretend to be Islam, but in reality they rejecting to believe of the Qur'an and prophet words, they even killing many Muslim 

So whilst you can try to claim that the Qur'an has never been altered, it's interpretations most certainly have.

Either way... I will provide some blatantly obvious evidence that the Quran has certainly been altered.
https://carm.org/have-there-been-changes-in-the-quran

Evidence is there, read it and weep.

that's not evidence at all, that just opinion  by shia. The Qur'an are still the same , the same words the same language, the same meaning unlike Bible that has been lost it's original language . The Qur'an has been translate to many language but the original Qur'an it self still preserve on original form "Arabic" . While it's true there is many dialect but the dialect never altered it's meaning and it still the same, even you can find the Qur'an that written in the stone from the prophet era. 

HollyGamer said:

Life valuable indeed, and Muslim's  believe that, and Islam even Allah said " whoever kill a person ... it shall be as if he has killing all mankind. And I am agree, but of course there is some exception, like A criminal, a dangerous person, or person who live in Islam territory and mocking the prophet.

I feel life is less valuable in religions that call for torture, beheading, incarcerations, and response to criticisms... Did you not read the Op where there were terrorist attacks?

Did Muslim kill every person on the street, or it just one person misguided?  The fact that Muslim are killed by the Rohingya, execute on India,  prove the other way Around, Muslim always been attacked , they should be the one attacking if your idea is true then Muslim the one who always rage a war.  


So whilst you might be able to pull a verse from the Quran bible that paints it in a "good" light, there are dozens of others which are downright disgusting and even plain evil.
Same goes for the Bible, there are a few lovey-dovey verses, but when there is a single verse that says a child should be stoned to death for breaking a law, then that religion is incompatible with a modern, secular, civilized world. And is not a religion and thus God worth our time.

I am never said Islam always peace and love, there is some exception boundary and reason, that's why Islam can coexist with modern society. We can defend our self if it means killing people like any modern society  

HollyGamer said:

Even in secular country like French  they still have death punishment ,  and Police are allow to kill someone. 

No they don't. Don't lie.

https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/french-foreign-policy/human-rights/death-penalty/france-and-the-death-penalty/

Ok so they can kill people in the war . :) 

HollyGamer said:

Agree, people can hate Islam and not agree with Islam, but disrespecting other  people "faith" like ideology, religion, country, law, an important person,  Is just like attacking people. 

and also Macron did this due to his Political campaign and xenophobia's and create Islamic phobias is just even worse.  

I am ridiculing your religion, not attacking you as an individual. There is a very big difference there.

Perhaps Islam needs to evolve like Christianity and Judaism to work around the phobias, honestly they bring it on themselves, just look at the middle-east.


My religion is not wrong, you can blame me but not my religion. The person who killed are not following the correct Islamic teaching .  The religion is perfect,  it  even help a barbaric un educated group of people living on the dessert far form civilization to be civilize, helping Europe gaining renaissance era.  When the Muslim spread on Europe . They help build the country unlike Mongol .



Jaicee said:
HollyGamer said:

You said by your self, it's mere assassination's by a terrorist's, any terrorist's are not affiliate with any religion Religion. No religion allow to kill anyone without some reasoning and cause. 

Muslim already condemned the killing act, but the problem is Macron make it bigger by blaming Muslim , blaming the religion, and allowing another slandering act and protected as free speech but at the same time hurting  Muslim around the world. 

The problem should have ended if Macron did not blame Islam and Muslim. 

So like for example when an organization calls itself the Islamic State, that's a non-religious organization, you're saying?

I think it's worth being serious about getting to the roots of why terrorists commit acts of terror. Whether it's considered politically correct or not to say as much (the French people being known for their brutal frankness), religion definitely was the motive here. That's just a fact.

Also, I was obviously being sarcastic when I said "the mere assassination" before. The taking of someone's life is obviously the more genuine and serious issue here. it's obviously a big deal.

This is about intolerance. Macron was criticizing intolerant elements within Islam in response to a beheading. That's not irrational or unjustified. As an atheist lesbian myself, I can't help agreeing with the view that says most Muslims around the world are quite a bit more bigoted against me than I am against them. They would generally take away my right to be an atheist, my right to love other women, and hell maybe even my right to leave my house without the accompany of a male guardian because, being merely a woman, I'm not even thought of as an adult let alone their equal. Despite these realities, the unconditional respect of your faith by everyone on the globe is demanded. No. That's not how it works. If you want the respect of others, you have to treat them with the same level of respect you demand from them.

You can believe whatever you want, I don't care. But what you can't do is demand that I practice your faith or that I respect hypocrites.

Yes, the evidence is Islam never teach people or Muslim to kill people without reasoning, without judge permission, authority and without cause . There are some  misguided Muslim out there that made a mistake , i can agree but Islam it self never teach that. The same thing with every other religion like White supremacist , Hindus terroirs, Nazi or even Jew (Israel ) Zionist.

No in Islam we cannot killed people without any reasoning , without the permission of local authority ,Muslim cannot kill people or sentence people to death without permission of judge or other reasoning.

So The terrorist's is just a misguided people who misunderstood about Islam



Jaicee said:
HollyGamer said:

That's incorrect, Muslim are not defending the terrorist's , they are mad because Macron trying to agitated by burning another fire and fuel to the problem and telling Islam is in crisis.  And allow people to slender an important person in Islam. This problem should have just end if Macron did not slandering Islam and the prophet.

Even Napoleon Bonaparte respect the Prophet and Islam, you can find Napoleon quote in the Internet  https://www.warhistoryonline.com/featured/did-you-know-napoleon-was-a-serious-admirer-of-islam.html

Macron should have knew Islam is a big religion and his country doing a business with Muslim country. 

If this is so, why aren't there any demonstrations against, you know, the mere assassination?

You have to understand how ridiculous this situation looks over here. America, for example, is a 75% Christian country demographically wherein Jesus Christ is parodied on TV programs like South Park all the time and nobody dies as a result. Now there are many conservative Christians who are offended by such things and who in the past have been known to protest and even try to have programs like South Park censored or taken off the air altogether, but those people didn't represent the prevailing opinion of the nation and nobody died.

Likewise, people "slander" me every day on the internet. Do I behead them in response? Well I feel like it sometimes momentarily, but no, I choose not to act on that impulse because that would be retarded. But maybe there's too much commentary on religion itself implied here in this statement.

I guess what I'm trying to get at here is that I don't really understand this level of upset over the idea of being criticized. I understand finding the criticism of one's faith unpleasant, but generally in the Western world you'll find that people (who aren't the current president of the United States) get over being criticized because it's not actually the end of the world. It's not like people in Muslim-majority countries generally grant people the right to freedom of religious belief or respect other people's faiths at all -- I mean most of the world's remaining theocracies are Islamic ones if I'm not mistaken -- so there just seems to be a massive amount of hypocrisy going on in such people marching against the mere criticism of Islam to the neglect of the context in which said criticism took place, claiming that their freedom of religion has been violated by words; by other people's freedom of speech. No Muslim's right to belief and to worship has been hindered here. Someone has died though. In fact, many people have died at this point.

Will just disagree on the president. For the power he holds and the amount of mockery he receives I don't see he taking any absurd measures. While other groups try to make every comment against them a form of prejudice and hatred to make people go to jail or lose job because of what they said.



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HollyGamer said:
Jaicee said:

So like for example when an organization calls itself the Islamic State, that's a non-religious organization, you're saying?

I think it's worth being serious about getting to the roots of why terrorists commit acts of terror. Whether it's considered politically correct or not to say as much (the French people being known for their brutal frankness), religion definitely was the motive here. That's just a fact.

Also, I was obviously being sarcastic when I said "the mere assassination" before. The taking of someone's life is obviously the more genuine and serious issue here. it's obviously a big deal.

This is about intolerance. Macron was criticizing intolerant elements within Islam in response to a beheading. That's not irrational or unjustified. As an atheist lesbian myself, I can't help agreeing with the view that says most Muslims around the world are quite a bit more bigoted against me than I am against them. They would generally take away my right to be an atheist, my right to love other women, and hell maybe even my right to leave my house without the accompany of a male guardian because, being merely a woman, I'm not even thought of as an adult let alone their equal. Despite these realities, the unconditional respect of your faith by everyone on the globe is demanded. No. That's not how it works. If you want the respect of others, you have to treat them with the same level of respect you demand from them.

You can believe whatever you want, I don't care. But what you can't do is demand that I practice your faith or that I respect hypocrites.

Yes, the evidence is Islam never teach people or Muslim to kill people without reasoning, without judge permission, authority and without cause . There are some  misguided Muslim out there that made a mistake , i can agree but Islam it self never teach that. The same thing with every other religion like White supremacist , Hindus terroirs, Nazi or even Jew (Israel ) Zionist.

No in Islam we cannot killed people without any reasoning , without the permission of local authority ,Muslim cannot kill people or sentence people to death without permission of judge or other reasoning.

So The terrorist's is just a misguided people who misunderstood about Islam

“You ˹polytheists˺ may travel freely through the land for four months, but know that you will have no escape from Allah, and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.”1

A declaration from Allah and His Messenger ˹is made˺ to all people on the day of the greater pilgrimage1 that Allah and His Messenger are free of the polytheists. So if you ˹pagans˺ repent, it will be better for you. But if you turn away, then know that you will have no escape from Allah. And give good news ˹O Prophet˺ to the disbelievers of a painful punishment.

As for the polytheists who have honoured every term of their treaty with you and have not supported an enemy against you, honour your treaty with them until the end of its term. Surely Allah loves those who are mindful ˹of Him˺.

But once the Sacred Months have passed, kill the polytheists ˹who violated their treaties˺ wherever you find them,1 capture them, besiege them, and lie in wait for them on every way. But if they repent, perform prayers, and pay alms-tax, then set them free. Indeed, Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

And if anyone from the polytheists asks for your protection ˹O Prophet˺, grant it to them so they may hear the Word of Allah, then escort them to a place of safety, for they are a people who have no knowledge.

How ˹can they have a treaty˺? If they were to have the upper hand over you, they would have no respect for kinship or treaty. They only flatter you with their tongues, but their hearts are in denial, and most of them are rebellious.

They chose a fleeting gain over Allah’s revelations, hindering ˹others˺ from His Way. Evil indeed is what they have done!

They do not honour the bonds of kinship or treaties with the believers. It is they who are the transgressors.

But if they repent, perform prayer, and pay alms-tax, then they are your brothers in faith. This is how We make the revelations clear for people of knowledge.

But if they break their oaths after making a pledge and attack your faith, then fight the champions of disbelief—who never honour their oaths—so perhaps they will desist.

Will you not fight those who have broken their oaths, conspired to expel the Messenger ˹from Mecca˺, and attacked you first? Do you fear them? Allah is more deserving of your fear, if you are ˹true˺ believers.

˹So˺ fight them and Allah will punish them at your hands, put them to shame, help you overcome them, and soothe the hearts of the believers—

Do you ˹pagans˺ consider providing the pilgrims with water and maintaining the Sacred Mosque as equal to believing in Allah and the Last Day and struggling in the cause of Allah? They are not equal in Allah’s sight. And Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.

O believers! Do not take your parents and siblings as trusted allies if they choose disbelief over belief. And whoever of you does so, they are the ˹true˺ wrongdoers.

Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “If your parents and children and siblings and spouses and extended family and the wealth you have acquired and the trade you fear will decline and the homes you cherish—˹if all these˺ are more beloved to you than Allah and His Messenger and struggling in His Way, then wait until Allah brings about His Will. Allah does not guide the rebellious people.”

Indeed Allah has given you ˹believers˺ victory on many battlefields, even at the Battle of Ḥunain1 when you took pride in your great numbers, but they proved of no advantage to you. The earth, despite its vastness, seemed to close in on you, then you turned back in retreat.

Then Allah sent down His reassurance1 upon His Messenger and the believers, and sent down forces2 you could not see, and punished those who disbelieved. Such was the reward of the disbelievers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah this is a snippet of a controversial part, do you acknowledge this can be used as a tool of extremism?

Bolded: Why not make an effort to not let people be misguided, is fingerpointing the most important or the effort?

Last edited by Immersiveunreality - on 07 November 2020

DonFerrari said:
Jaicee said:

If this is so, why aren't there any demonstrations against, you know, the mere assassination?

You have to understand how ridiculous this situation looks over here. America, for example, is a 75% Christian country demographically wherein Jesus Christ is parodied on TV programs like South Park all the time and nobody dies as a result. Now there are many conservative Christians who are offended by such things and who in the past have been known to protest and even try to have programs like South Park censored or taken off the air altogether, but those people didn't represent the prevailing opinion of the nation and nobody died.

Likewise, people "slander" me every day on the internet. Do I behead them in response? Well I feel like it sometimes momentarily, but no, I choose not to act on that impulse because that would be retarded. But maybe there's too much commentary on religion itself implied here in this statement.

I guess what I'm trying to get at here is that I don't really understand this level of upset over the idea of being criticized. I understand finding the criticism of one's faith unpleasant, but generally in the Western world you'll find that people (who aren't the current president of the United States) get over being criticized because it's not actually the end of the world. It's not like people in Muslim-majority countries generally grant people the right to freedom of religious belief or respect other people's faiths at all -- I mean most of the world's remaining theocracies are Islamic ones if I'm not mistaken -- so there just seems to be a massive amount of hypocrisy going on in such people marching against the mere criticism of Islam to the neglect of the context in which said criticism took place, claiming that their freedom of religion has been violated by words; by other people's freedom of speech. No Muslim's right to belief and to worship has been hindered here. Someone has died though. In fact, many people have died at this point.

Will just disagree on the president. For the power he holds and the amount of mockery he receives I don't see he taking any absurd measures. While other groups try to make every comment against them a form of prejudice and hatred to make people go to jail or lose job because of what they said.

Oh I see. So you've never heard of the infamous "LOCK..HER..UP! LOCK..HER..UP!" chant that everyone else on Earth remembers as a defining feature of his first election campaign, you're saying? Likewise, you don't recall Mr. Trump recently calling on Congress to arrest and imprison his rival in this election, Joe Biden, as well as Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and pretty much all other prominent Democrats in existence for good measure? You don't remember him sending in the army to quell protests even after the cities in question asked him not to? You don't remember him threatening to delay this year's presidential election because he might lose (er I mean 'corrupt mail-in ballots', sorry)? You don't recall his endorsement of the Proud Boys (a right wing street gang that requires its members to physically attack leftists) last month? Or his repeated attempts to impose new legal restrictions on the ability of the press ("the enemy of the people", in his words) to criticize him? Or his decision to do nothing in response to the cold-blooded murder of a Washington Post journalist because the Washington Post had been critical of him? Or his attempt to ban TikTok because some kids used it to prank him this summer? Or the tax hikes on "blue states" contained in the 2017 "tax cut" bill because those people voted against him? Or his systematic withholding of personal protective equipment from "blue states" because they voted against him (i.e. 'you didn't vote for me, so you can die from the virus')? All of that slipping your mind? That's just for starters! I could go on with this list forever if you want, but the point is that the man obviously can't handle dissent. We are only lucky that he hasn't gotten his way much of the time because if he did...*shudders*...I don't even want to think about what kind of country we'd be right now. We'd be like his favorite country, Russia.

Donald Trump is NOT a good poster boy for free speech, or for freedom of anything in general. I really only threw in a passing mention of him because the reality is that without the Islamic State, he wouldn't be president. The kind of actions and attitudes we're talking about on this thread are much of the reason he was able to become a viable candidate. People across the Western world legitimately feared for their lives after seeing what happened to France and Sweden in 2015. That was very real. I felt it. I was scared too. That's what terrorism is. It's the whole point. Without it, there's no way Donald Trump would be my president right now. This is how people like Trump and Modi and the rest go from being demagogues to becoming heads of state.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 07 November 2020