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Forums - Politics Discussion - A French teacher beheaded, chaos ensues, EU warns Turkey of sanctions

HollyGamer said:
DonFerrari said:

Not really, you are saying that if it is on a Islamic ruled country it is right to kill someone because the victim was breaking religious law. And also said this law is right.

Again this is not my opinion but this is Islamic rule, you can be Muslim and not following this rule but this will be a major sin, but i try my best to follow what God said as Muslim. 

So you can give your clear answer.

If someone mock Allah or Mohammed on an Islamic ruled country you think it is ok to kill that person?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:
HollyGamer said:

Again this is not my opinion but this is Islamic rule, you can be Muslim and not following this rule but this will be a major sin, but i try my best to follow what God said as Muslim. 

So you can give your clear answer.

If someone mock Allah or Mohammed on an Islamic ruled country you think it is ok to kill that person?

In Islam my  opinion is useless in front of Allah words and the prophet words, i don't have opinion regarding this because i follow God and the prophet, my opinion are based on Qur'an and the prophet words. So according to god and the prophet yes the person can be punish and killed by the local Islamic ruler. 



HollyGamer said:
DonFerrari said:

So you can give your clear answer.

If someone mock Allah or Mohammed on an Islamic ruled country you think it is ok to kill that person?

In Islam my  opinion is useless in front of Allah words and the prophet words, i don't have opinion regarding this because i follow God and the prophet, my opinion are based on Qur'an and the prophet words. So according to god and the prophet yes the person can be punish and killed by the local Islamic ruler. 

And I believe you consider yourself a moderate muslim right? Just abbiding by the teaching of the Qur'an?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
HollyGamer said:

In Islam my  opinion is useless in front of Allah words and the prophet words, i don't have opinion regarding this because i follow God and the prophet, my opinion are based on Qur'an and the prophet words. So according to god and the prophet yes the person can be punish and killed by the local Islamic ruler. 

And I believe you consider yourself a moderate muslim right? Just abbiding by the teaching of the Qur'an?

Define moderate ? 

I am a moderate Muslim , but I am still a Muslim  and not a secular person, i follow Qur'an and follow the prophet . I respect every good respectable non Muslim who respect Islam and their prophet. I respect every opinion, i respect every religion. But when the it comes to Islamic Syariah that i have to follow, then i have to leave  my opinion on the back and follow the Islamic rule for Muslim. 



HollyGamer said:
DonFerrari said:

And I believe you consider yourself a moderate muslim right? Just abbiding by the teaching of the Qur'an?

Define moderate ? 

I am a moderate Muslim , but I am still a Muslim  and not a secular person, i follow Qur'an and follow the prophet . I respect every good respectable non Muslim who respect Islam and their prophet. I respect every opinion, i respect every religion. But when the it comes to Islamic Syariah that i have to follow, then i have to leave  my opinion on the back and follow the Islamic rule for Muslim. 

I'm not asking per my definition. But by yours.

And you consider yourself moderate, for me that is enough. And sure you are in your right to agreeing or not with what the teaching say follow it because it is on what you trust.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Around the Network
DonFerrari said:
HollyGamer said:

Define moderate ? 

I am a moderate Muslim , but I am still a Muslim  and not a secular person, i follow Qur'an and follow the prophet . I respect every good respectable non Muslim who respect Islam and their prophet. I respect every opinion, i respect every religion. But when the it comes to Islamic Syariah that i have to follow, then i have to leave  my opinion on the back and follow the Islamic rule for Muslim. 

I'm not asking per my definition. But by yours.

And you consider yourself moderate, for me that is enough. And sure you are in your right to agreeing or not with what the teaching say follow it because it is on what you trust.

Something need to be clear, Muslim are not allow killing Muslim or non Muslim without the permission of local authority in Muslim country or non Muslim country and are not allow if there is no cause/ reason that urgent (defending life, people/pride or etc) 

Also the person who killed by the terroirs should be forgiven if he asked for forgiveness and promise not to slender the prophet or a person. Muslim cannot act by them self , they have to abide to the local law. 

The person whom killed the teacher is killer that i can agree no matter what the reason is. But macron attitude is not helping at all, in fact he try to agitate another extreme Islamist and cause more harm to both French and Muslim society. 



HollyGamer said:
sales2099 said:

These strict blasphemy laws were phased out of Christianity hundreds of years ago. Again people can mock Jesus freely without fear of repercussion. Reform needs to happen especially for those living in the West. 

It’s concerning you are disputing that the act of beheading isn’t a worse act then blasphemy. One is words...the other involves crudely taking a life.  

The Cristian problem is Christianity problem, Christian is not even a religion anymore now. Why would a religion need reform, if a religion can be reform than it's not religion by God but by Human. The Cristian should asking them self why would they allow people slandering and mocking Jesus peace be upon him, even Muslim angry when Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah and every other Abrahamic  prophet  are mocked by bad people. 

In Islam we are not changing anything because Islam is the religion from God it self. We believe Islam is the religion of Abraham, Jesus and Moses and Noah and the prophet Muhammad peace be upon all of them.

Also my opinion killing person is bad, i am condemned the person it self self, but like i said this is not just my opinion, If I was the ruler of Islamic country and i let people mocking The prophet than i will let a very big sin slip away . It's a major sin in Islam.  

But of course the beheading are supposed to happen if the person are mocked inside Islamic ruled country like in Saudi or Brunei with sharia law. If it happen outside then it's wrong because Muslim need to obey local authority. 

First paragraph is nonsense. It’s called “separation of Church and state”. Religious laws do not trump society laws in the West. In general there is a major sensitivity problem that needs to be addressed. I am offended by anti Christian rhetoric, but people can say whatever they please in a free country. That’s how a modern society should function. 



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HollyGamer said:

Actually mocking a prophet in Islam considered as ultra big sin . The prophet is a holly person and beloved person more than their parent, country  or even their life. In Islam Muslim are considered Muslim if they believe in One God and The Prophet. This not my opinion but if you are a Muslim this is just natural. 

But this of course does not mean we can kill every none believer on the street. Muslim need to follow the rule of a country or ruler , even he an orthodox Muslim. And yes the person who mocking the prophet are guilty according to Islam and the one who be headed the person also wrong. 

And no there is no objective , faith is subjective. Faith in every way including religion , science, ideology are subject based. The cause of this faith either religion, ideology are purely subjective.  

Perhaps it should not be that way. Maybe it is a bad idea to think of an author who lived 1500 years ago as more important than your parents, country and life. You say this is just natural for a muslim. Perhaps this is why Islam needs a reform.

Also, it is nice to be nice. But I am convinced of the idea that you should be able to joke about and criticise everything without fear of physical harm. And it should not matter one bit if you are guilty of anything according to Islam. To mix religion and government must be a bad idea, always. As long as you are not guilty according to the law you are not guilty at all and there is nothing you should fear.

Also, I should not have to point this out, but criticising somebody (no matter who it is) is very objectivly not as bad as killing somebody, by several orders of magnitude. Or to put it another way: critique is not bad at all. Sometimes it is in bad taste. But only children throw a hissy fit because somebody said something they did not like. Murder on the other hand is one of the worst crimes you can possibly commit.



HollyGamer said:

You can have your opinion and do a free speech, but a free speech need to have some respect to other religion. In Indonesia we respect every religion although we are different in race , religion etc. You can have your opinion of Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad peace be upon him. But we never mocking other people holly person or God. I believe in free speech, and Muslim and believe in tolerant act . But Macron is not the best person to teach us about tolerant and free speech.

Even Napoleon Bonaparte respect Muhammad and Islam.

Beheading people also is also wrong, but remember both are wrong. And Macron should apologize, the person who beheaded need to be punish and people who mock the prophet need to be punish as well.

Well. No, free-speech doesn't need to respect any religion.
Free-speech as a construct doesn't care about any individual or religious feelings.

I think we should openly mock religion, religion needs to start proving it's assertions with empirical evidence first before it receives any such protections.

HollyGamer said:

The Cristian problem is Christianity problem, Christian is not even a religion anymore now. Why would a religion need reform, if a religion can be reform than it's not religion by God but by Human. The Cristian should asking them self why would they allow people slandering and mocking Jesus peace be upon him, even Muslim angry when Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah and every other Abrahamic  prophet  are mocked by bad people. 

In Islam we are not changing anything because Islam is the religion from God it self. We believe Islam is the religion of Abraham, Jesus and Moses and Noah and the prophet Muhammad peace be upon all of them.

Prove your God exists for your religion to be from God itself.

HollyGamer said:

Also my opinion killing person is bad, i am condemned the person it self self, but like i said this is not just my opinion, If I was the ruler of Islamic country and i let people mocking The prophet than i will let a very big sin slip away . It's a major sin in Islam.  

Again, you would need to prove that God exists for Sin to be real as Sin is a religious invention... A tool to assist people to keep "in line".

HollyGamer said:

You can agree or disagree, but in Islam, mocking the prophet is sentence by death of course that if you are mocked the prophet inside Islamic ruled country. This not my opinion but The Qur'an told us to. Like it or not that's the rule of Islam.  Again the person who slender or mock the prophet has to be inside Islamic ruled country . If not then , Muslim need to follow the local authority regarding this and be patient. 

Correct. The Law of the Land comes first.
In saying that, sentence to death by being critical of a religion means that religion needs to be removed.

HollyGamer said:

In Islam my  opinion is useless in front of Allah words and the prophet words, i don't have opinion regarding this because i follow God and the prophet, my opinion are based on Qur'an and the prophet words. So according to god and the prophet yes the person can be punish and killed by the local Islamic ruler. 

The Quran like the Bible is based on the Abrahamic texts that defined the first of the three main religions... Judaism with the Torah.
Allah literal translation is "God" the same God that is in the Torah and Bible.

What makes you think the Quran is correct and the Bible or Torah is incorrect? Faith isn't an acceptable answer, that's just blind indoctrinated belief rather than anything based on tangible evidence, functional models or understanding. In short it's highly fallacious reasoning.
The Torah, Quran and Bible are books written by man, translated and "interpreted (I.E. Meanings changed to suit the day)" to fit a certain narrative, I.E. Homosexuality as a word didn't exist 6,000 years ago, yet are included in these religious texts to various degrees.

Life is valuable, life is finite, so destroying life because it might offend someones indoctrinated beliefs is actually abhorrent and disgusting in my eyes. (Keep in mind we don't even have the death penalty here.)
I think any religion (Including the Bible and Torah) needs to be shut down if it promotes any kind of inequality, hate or death.



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sales2099 said:
HollyGamer said:

The Cristian problem is Christianity problem, Christian is not even a religion anymore now. Why would a religion need reform, if a religion can be reform than it's not religion by God but by Human. The Cristian should asking them self why would they allow people slandering and mocking Jesus peace be upon him, even Muslim angry when Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Noah and every other Abrahamic  prophet  are mocked by bad people. 

In Islam we are not changing anything because Islam is the religion from God it self. We believe Islam is the religion of Abraham, Jesus and Moses and Noah and the prophet Muhammad peace be upon all of them.

Also my opinion killing person is bad, i am condemned the person it self self, but like i said this is not just my opinion, If I was the ruler of Islamic country and i let people mocking The prophet than i will let a very big sin slip away . It's a major sin in Islam.  

But of course the beheading are supposed to happen if the person are mocked inside Islamic ruled country like in Saudi or Brunei with sharia law. If it happen outside then it's wrong because Muslim need to obey local authority. 

First paragraph is nonsense. It’s called “separation of Church and state”. Religious laws do not trump society laws in the West. In general there is a major sensitivity problem that needs to be addressed. I am offended by anti Christian rhetoric, but people can say whatever they please in a free country. That’s how a modern society should function. 

Separation can only happen it there is something wrong with the source of the  religion and the bible has been question of originality. In Islam we don't have that because separation is a sin for a ruler (if you a ruler of a country and Muslim but separate God and country ) but this sin only applied to a ruler or government who believe in Islam.