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Forums - Politics Discussion - A French teacher beheaded, chaos ensues, EU warns Turkey of sanctions

sales2099 said:

nm 

I think you got your point across =p



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sales2099 said:
HollyGamer said:
sales2099 said:
HollyGamer said:
sales2099 said:

I’d counter that these laws from Judaism, Christianity and Islam were written when life was harsh and its laws reflected that. We have evolved as a species and as such the laws have largely changed since 1500+ years ago. I’m just gonna say if people of your faith believe saying words equals death, or chopping off heads is even considered as a punishment, then maybe you need some type of reform. 

Our faith and belief doesn’t change. How we conduct ourselves as people should however adapt with the times. 

Yes indeed Islam when it was reveal was in the harsh condition where people who lived where living in tribal age and far from civilization, and constant tribal war. But then again the prophet still continue receiving Qur'an revelations after The prophet won the battled and the prophet ended the war. The prophet still receiving the revelation and guided by God in peaceful era . Even when The prophet still in exodus in Madinah , The prophet living peaceful life with Non Muslim and doing business and transaction and deal with Jews, pagans and some Christian in Medina. 

So Qur'an has teach us in many condition etc.

Also Qur'an are not written by Muhammad , there is no Muhammad opinion or idea inside Qur'an. Even the prophet has very less name on it . inside the Qur'an is purely God revelation that God speak to the person who read from first person perspective. Muhammad is just messenger that cannot read, nor write. How come he able to write a fantastic book that lead a backward society and tribal people to be the most influential cavillation also lead the modern technology and civilization  until now. Nor human able to do that, because indeed the book are not written by person (Muhammad) 

The history lesson doesn’t address what I said. I said through the ages to modern times, our faith and devotion remains the same. However I think as a species we moved past the point of killing people for saying “words”. 

But that is not the fault of the religion. The criminals were acting not based on any religion.  For this matter he claim, he acted because of his love to the prophet. This is false accusation. The prophet never allowed Muslim killing non Muslim without urgency reason or even if the non Muslim is wrong they still cannot act by him self and need to consult to local authority and judge by the local court . 

Yes it is. In Muslim majority countries it is the death penalty for blasphemy.

Yes correct indeed some Muslim law country allowed death penalty for blasphemy. Because any country has rights to kill anyone within their rule, the same like western country has right to kill anyone who threaten their country safety , political stability or people that can cause problem in the society. Hell even any country has the right to invaded any country if the country are against their idea or ideology . I think it's normal 



HollyGamer said:
sales2099 said:
HollyGamer said:
sales2099 said:
HollyGamer said:
sales2099 said:

I’d counter that these laws from Judaism, Christianity and Islam were written when life was harsh and its laws reflected that. We have evolved as a species and as such the laws have largely changed since 1500+ years ago. I’m just gonna say if people of your faith believe saying words equals death, or chopping off heads is even considered as a punishment, then maybe you need some type of reform. 

Our faith and belief doesn’t change. How we conduct ourselves as people should however adapt with the times. 

Yes indeed Islam when it was reveal was in the harsh condition where people who lived where living in tribal age and far from civilization, and constant tribal war. But then again the prophet still continue receiving Qur'an revelations after The prophet won the battled and the prophet ended the war. The prophet still receiving the revelation and guided by God in peaceful era . Even when The prophet still in exodus in Madinah , The prophet living peaceful life with Non Muslim and doing business and transaction and deal with Jews, pagans and some Christian in Medina. 

So Qur'an has teach us in many condition etc.

Also Qur'an are not written by Muhammad , there is no Muhammad opinion or idea inside Qur'an. Even the prophet has very less name on it . inside the Qur'an is purely God revelation that God speak to the person who read from first person perspective. Muhammad is just messenger that cannot read, nor write. How come he able to write a fantastic book that lead a backward society and tribal people to be the most influential cavillation also lead the modern technology and civilization  until now. Nor human able to do that, because indeed the book are not written by person (Muhammad) 

The history lesson doesn’t address what I said. I said through the ages to modern times, our faith and devotion remains the same. However I think as a species we moved past the point of killing people for saying “words”. 

But that is not the fault of the religion. The criminals were acting not based on any religion.  For this matter he claim, he acted because of his love to the prophet. This is false accusation. The prophet never allowed Muslim killing non Muslim without urgency reason or even if the non Muslim is wrong they still cannot act by him self and need to consult to local authority and judge by the local court . 

Yes it is. In Muslim majority countries it is the death penalty for blasphemy.

Yes correct indeed some Muslim law country allowed death penalty for blasphemy. Because any country has rights to kill anyone within their rule, the same like western country has right to kill anyone who threaten their country safety , political stability or people that can cause problem in the society. Hell even any country has the right to invaded any country if the country are against their idea or ideology . I think it's normal 

Then this is where we fundamentally disagree. You think these laws are normal and don’t need reform. And it’s these norms that are carried over into the West where I’m sorry to say, are medieval by comparison. 



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sales2099 said:
HollyGamer said:
sales2099 said:
HollyGamer said:
sales2099 said:
HollyGamer said:
sales2099 said:

I’d counter that these laws from Judaism, Christianity and Islam were written when life was harsh and its laws reflected that. We have evolved as a species and as such the laws have largely changed since 1500+ years ago. I’m just gonna say if people of your faith believe saying words equals death, or chopping off heads is even considered as a punishment, then maybe you need some type of reform. 

Our faith and belief doesn’t change. How we conduct ourselves as people should however adapt with the times. 

Yes indeed Islam when it was reveal was in the harsh condition where people who lived where living in tribal age and far from civilization, and constant tribal war. But then again the prophet still continue receiving Qur'an revelations after The prophet won the battled and the prophet ended the war. The prophet still receiving the revelation and guided by God in peaceful era . Even when The prophet still in exodus in Madinah , The prophet living peaceful life with Non Muslim and doing business and transaction and deal with Jews, pagans and some Christian in Medina. 

So Qur'an has teach us in many condition etc.

Also Qur'an are not written by Muhammad , there is no Muhammad opinion or idea inside Qur'an. Even the prophet has very less name on it . inside the Qur'an is purely God revelation that God speak to the person who read from first person perspective. Muhammad is just messenger that cannot read, nor write. How come he able to write a fantastic book that lead a backward society and tribal people to be the most influential cavillation also lead the modern technology and civilization  until now. Nor human able to do that, because indeed the book are not written by person (Muhammad) 

The history lesson doesn’t address what I said. I said through the ages to modern times, our faith and devotion remains the same. However I think as a species we moved past the point of killing people for saying “words”. 

But that is not the fault of the religion. The criminals were acting not based on any religion.  For this matter he claim, he acted because of his love to the prophet. This is false accusation. The prophet never allowed Muslim killing non Muslim without urgency reason or even if the non Muslim is wrong they still cannot act by him self and need to consult to local authority and judge by the local court . 

Yes it is. In Muslim majority countries it is the death penalty for blasphemy.

Yes correct indeed some Muslim law country allowed death penalty for blasphemy. Because any country has rights to kill anyone within their rule, the same like western country has right to kill anyone who threaten their country safety , political stability or people that can cause problem in the society. Hell even any country has the right to invaded any country if the country are against their idea or ideology . I think it's normal 

Then this is where we fundamentally disagree. You think these laws are normal and don’t need reform. And it’s these norms that are carried over into the West where I’m sorry to say, are medieval by comparison. 

Do you realize that western society  still killing people as well, declaring  a war. killing innocent, push their ideology , push their agenda and threating the world . Please educate your self with reality first before claiming that Islam need  reform, in fact it's just a hypocrisy. 



Yes it is. In Muslim majority countries it is the death penalty for blasphemy.

Yes correct indeed some Muslim law country allowed death penalty for blasphemy. Because any country has rights to kill anyone within their rule, the same like western country has right to kill anyone who threaten their country safety , political stability or people that can cause problem in the society. Hell even any country has the right to invaded any country if the country are against their idea or ideology . I think it's normal 

Then this is where we fundamentally disagree. You think these laws are normal and don’t need reform. And it’s these norms that are carried over into the West where I’m sorry to say, are medieval by comparison. 

Do you realize that western society  still killing people as well, declaring  a war. killing innocent, push their ideology , push their agenda and threating the world . Please educate your self with reality first before claiming that Islam need  reform, in fact it's just a hypocrisy. 

Not for saying words. You can get boycotted, loose your job, or have charges pressed against you for libel or hate crime. But you don’t die from it. What you said is the “backed against the wall” response. Stay on topic, you think death due to “words” is justified in certain countries. I think it has no place in a modern, civilized society. 

(BTW you talking geo-political relations/actions between governments. I’m talking local civilian law. Don’t confuse the two, stay on topic in your reply) 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 08 November 2020

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HollyGamer said:

Yes correct indeed some Muslim law country allowed death penalty for blasphemy. Because any country has rights to kill anyone within their rule, the same like western country has right to kill anyone who threaten their country safety , political stability or people that can cause problem in the society. Hell even any country has the right to invaded any country if the country are against their idea or ideology . I think it's normal 

Then those countries need to change.

I am a supporter of abolishing the death penalty... And is actually one of my countries international mandates to push for the removal of the Death Penalty.
Why? Because innocent people HAVE been proven innocent after they have been put to death... And one falsely accused, innocent person killed by a due-process is one person to many.

Life is also precious. Having the Death penalty does not actually reduce crime rates, we just need to look at the Middle East, Africa, South America or USA for evidence of that... I would rather put those criminals to work in a secured, isolated capacity in order to repay the debt to society for the rest of their lives... They could be growing food to donate to the most vulnerable like the homeless.

Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen, all of these countries would sentence me to death because of my Atheistic beliefs... Despite the lives I have saved, the towns and cities I have protected.
That's not freedom. And they tend to be Muslim nations.

And if we start talking about LGBTQI rights issues... Things get even more messy.

So whilst yes... Many modern states like the USA have the death penalty, they won't kill you for being an Atheist, they won't kill you for being Homosexual, they won't kill you for criticizing the government... That is where Islamic nations need reform, need to change... And need to grow up.



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HollyGamer said:
JuliusHackebeil said:
HollyGamer said:

Muhammad is not the author of Qur'an , he cannot read nor write in living on the dessert far from Civilization far from science. The Qur'an is the miracle that keep proving and already tested by science, artistic literation and modern time even until now. That's why many people converting to Islam.

It's bad idea in your opinion, but Muslim believe that QUr'an and Islam is the guidance for life that teach how we live as society, teach us on doing business, on family and how to live as society in country 

It's objective by opinion not by general rule of thumb. 

Sahih Bukhari 6:60:311

After Muhammad received the verse 3:31, Aisha commented, "I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires."

How does it feel not to understand what even a 9-year-old could understand?

And it someone wants to understand more of the historical context actually at the heart of the islamic belief and ideology, I'd suggest Tom Holland:

Much like early Judaism was made in the Bible into something far more expansive than it really was (most of Canaan being pagan until a few centuries before the Romans), Islam arose gradually from the historical context of 7th century Arabic context in face of the sophisticated Byzantine/Sassanid theologies as a sort of answer to them.



 

 

 

 

 

Too many Islamophobia.



Certain cultures are simply too far apart and should not mix. Do business and trade, but otherwise, stay in your boxes. Don't be coming here, if you are unable to leave your decapitating tendencies behind.