Yes that's what eating crow means but we have been over this before, I felt like you were trying to mislead. It's over now, @DonFerrari continues to be dishonest about what I said. I didn't have an issue with your pessimistic prediction but instead what seemed to be you being dishonest about making it. He continues to claim I had an issue with it being pessitimistic, which doesn't make sense because I would want you to be wrong or "eat crow". All of your post is useless, no one had an issue with your prediction. You stated you were right all along about the 4 million and Curl correctly reminded you of your original 3 to 3.5 million. This isn't about your prediction but the potential dishonesty. We have already cleared this up, its over no need to come to Don's rescue.

Asking for premission now to post it, it's very alarming and is from Mediacreate. The physical sales of PS5 in Japan are horrendously bad, that's not objective. It's literally worse than WiiU and Vita. Switch being a bad console is subjective, the reasons its bad to you is irrelevant to the market as a whole. You don't speak for all of us, PS5 selling software like crap is the market speaking as a whole and its bad. Unless WiiU is all of a sudden good.

Lol why in the world would you compare a PS4 title up against a WiiU title instead of the previous dominate platfrom in Japan, 3DS? PS4 titles didn't have anywhere near this amount of trouble ranking againgst 3DS titles because PS5 is doing significantly worse than PS4. Also selling less games than WiiU and Vita, all of this is physical so im sure your next excuse will be PS5 games are all digital.

Funny you bring up 3rd party sales in Switch when that list is fully inaccurate. Minecraft was way too low and we don't have every game over 1 million on Switch because 3rd parties don't provide breakdowns most of the time. How do you know none of the Fifas for example haven't sold over a million when you can't even tell me the PS versions sales? Most of the time 3rd parties don't provide breakdowns. With that said, Nintendo is also a behemoth of a software seller and you are comparing massive selling exclusives to multiplatformal releases. If those Nintendo games were exclusive to Playstation consoles, they would also beat those major selling 3rd party games on PS because those major selling 3rd parties on PS would still have the disadvantage of being offered on Xbox and PC leading to the audience being more split than those Nintendo exclusives. You really think any of those CoD's or Fifa games sale over 25 million on just PS? Nintendo's first party exclusives would also fill a PS top10 or 30 easily. Nintendo consoles don't even get the most popular 3rd party games, making it impossible for 3rd parties to compete. The ones they do get are also placed at massive disadvantages vs. those Nintendo behemoths. Hogwarts was late and Fifa got its first real version and PS still has the marketing rights. What major 3rd party games should sell well on Switch? Minecraft and Monster Hunter are two major 3rd party games Switch received and do incredible. Microsoft confirmed Switch is currently leading in sales actually, that's the biggest selling game in history. Monster Hunter Rise was exclusive so that's unfair technically but it did sell just as well has it PS counterpart (Monster Hunter World). This is good for the other thread though so ill end here.

I only call people that lie, dishonest lol. That's kind of how the world works. 

I already told Xtreme in another thread I had a previous account and lost the login info, the site being hacked I guess erased the past post? So no I had an account before. 

Yes that's what eating crow means but we have been over this before, I felt like you were trying to mislead. It's over now, @DonFerrari continues to be dishonest about what I said. I didn't have an issue with your pessimistic prediction but instead what seemed to be you being dishonest about making it. He continues to claim I had an issue with it being pessitimistic, which doesn't make sense because I would want you to be wrong or "eat crow". All of your post is useless, no one had an issue with your prediction. You stated you were right all along about the 4 million and Curl correctly reminded you of your original 3 to 3.5 million. This isn't about your prediction but the potential dishonesty. We have already cleared this up, its over no need to come to Don's rescue.

Yes that's what eating crow means but we have been over this before, I felt like you were trying to mislead. It's over now, @DonFerrari continues to be dishonest about what I said. I didn't have an issue with your pessimistic prediction but instead what seemed to be you being dishonest about making it. He continues to claim I had an issue with it being pessitimistic, which doesn't make sense because I would want you to be wrong or "eat crow". All of your post is useless, no one had an issue with your prediction. You stated you were right all along about the 4 million and Curl correctly reminded you of your original 3 to 3.5 million. This isn't about your prediction but the potential dishonesty. We have already cleared this up, its over no need to come to Don's rescue.

No I described as mediocre due to the software performance, you can't just look at the hardware. Basically hardware good, software bad leading to mediocre overall. That's not hard to understand. It literally has worst software sales than WiiU, how is that excusable. You are obsessed with Switch I see, so please tell me how Switch would be mediocre without telling me something subjective? There is nothing subjective about selling less software than WiiU and being considered poor performance. On the other hand, Switch is the 3rd highest selling platform in hardware history and like 3rd or 4th in software (think PS2, PS4, and PS1 are still above it). Two of those platforms Switch smoked in hardware and I doubt PS1 stays ahead in software, even PS2 doesn't look out of reach but PS4 I think is way too high software wise. Switch is likely the most profitable system in history and maybe PS2 and PS4 have made more revenue. In what way is Switch's global performance comparable to PS5's performance in Japan? 

No I described as mediocre due to the software performance, you can't just look at the hardware. Basically hardware good, software bad leading to mediocre overall. That's not hard to understand. It literally has worst software sales than WiiU, how is that excusable. You are obsessed with Switch I see, so please tell me how Switch would be mediocre without telling me something subjective? There is nothing subjective about selling less software than WiiU and being considered poor performance. On the other hand, Switch is the 3rd highest selling platform in hardware history and like 3rd or 4th in software (think PS2, PS4, and PS1 are still above it). Two of those platforms Switch smoked in hardware and I doubt PS1 stays ahead in software, even PS2 doesn't look out of reach but PS4 I think is way too high software wise. Switch is likely the most profitable system in history and maybe PS2 and PS4 have made more revenue. In what way is Switch's global performance comparable to PS5's performance in Japan? 

Can you do everybody a favor and fuck off already? You’ve been accusing him of being a liar in the last 5 Media Create threads, get over it.

Ok I'll wait for the approval to post sales data. By physical sale you mean SW sales made in physical format? And you do know that in general PS have more digital sales than switch (and Xbox even more, with S pushing the boundary even higher).

Are you putting words on my mouth, lying or being dishonest here? Because I didn't said Switch is bad, I said it is weak and below mediocre IF WE USE THE SAME METHOD AS YOU. If we go and compare Switch HW to PS5/Series/PC Switch is much below average. But that comparison is faulty as is yours on comparing SW sale in japan for Switch and PS5, unless you also want to say that Switch attach ratio is terrible and below mediocre because consoles have an attach ratio of around 12 for like the last 3 gens and Switch is only 8.63?

I did mention 3DS together with the WiiU on the chart argument. Neither of those were as dominating as is Switch so if you only look at ranking and there was more ranking games on PS4 vs 3DS than PS5 vs Switch that is one of the reasons, and digital increase is also another.

You can skip the whole 7 of 52 titles on the 1M club for Switch part if you want. The attach ratio of 8.6 and 50% split of 3rd party comes from Nintendo itself and that give you 4.3 3rd party games on Switch and 11 on PS5 and if you look for total on Switch it is about 0.5B and on PS4 (that is where we had a firm number of 1.5B total in 2021) would be 1.3B and whenever PS5 is mature enough to be over 100M on HW the SW will probably be near that as well. Would you them say that Switch attach ratio is below mediocre and laughable compared to PS?

Regarding your old account I didn't see your post, what was your user?

I am not coming to Don's rescue, and also this wasn't directed to you, but as I already written, it was adresed to everyone who called my prediction pessimistic (and yes including you). It was not pessimistic and I explained why. Of course with the end result you can call it pessimistic but I described why before the year end (or the year half maybe) this original prediction wasn't pessimistic but was normal and realistic all the way. Also no, I was not telling curl or anyone I was right all the way, I just told that "my prediction of 4M earlier in the year was right ". So I just didn't adressed my original one, I chose to talk about my latest prediction. No one said I was right all the way, always, all the time. You understood it like that. Also I am just pointing out something that obviously need to be cleared out, not starting anything. (Again it's not directed specially to you, it's for @curl-6 too and if there someone else thinking the same way too).

Also as you see, I am not even touching the surface about what you argue there .. If I have to .. I agree with both. PS year of 2023 is success, however is success only about PS perfomance in Japan compared to previous PS consoles and I agree it can be called good performance only for the PS market in JAPAN (talking pure hardware numbers here). However it's perfomance is mediocre cuz Switch showed what the Japan market potential is, and PS is still very far from it. Switch, and DS both showed what Japan market is capable of. Again, I am talking pure hardware numbers here. Software is even more dominating for Nintendo than hardware there. I don't have any comment to make about software. At least from the top list every week I see. I am not much into those software sales, as it was easier (and honestly way more interesting than only those in japan or particular countries) before when VGChartz tracked them all worldwide every week and they were all on the top page. (By the way I would enjoy to make comparisons and charts if I had data on all the software, worldwide, official data on everything, the way like it was before .. but now we get what ? only on certain titles ? only for japan ? if someone is more informed please light me up)

I dont think DonFerrari was referring to Switch global performance (if I'm wrong on that please correct me).

Anyways, regarding PS5 and the WiiU in Japan only.

Data comes from VGChartz & Famitsu Top 30 Software 2020-2024. If you find anything better please share with the class.

You are comparing a 3 year old console to a 5 year old console.

You cant compare apples to oranges. But looking at the chart, yes PS5 is having a rough time with PS5 specific software for now. Playstation isn't as popular in Japan as it is in Europe or the Americas.

And I dont appreciate the personal bashing. No one thinks that DonFerrari is a liar. Neither is XtremeBG.

Objective: Verifiable information based on facts and evidence.
Subjective: Subjective relates to personal viewpoints, experiences, or perspectives, whereas objective refers to factual data that is not influenced by personal beliefs or biases.
In this sense, sales are hard facts both software and hardware. Technology comparison between consoles is fact.
Having a preference is an opinion.

Facts don't care about your feelings. Suck it up.

Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.

You can mind your business, you ask me to get over it but have no issue with these people putting words in my mouth. We have already moved passed it. If you don't understand how his post looked misleading then you aren't paying enough attention. It was cleared between us already and yet Don felt the need to continue to post about it. Being dishonest about what I actually said. This isn't about xtrem but instead Don posting nonsense. So you could do your job and tell him to mind his business if he can't atleast post about situations honestly.

Yes software sales in physical format, PS having higher digital ratios to Switch doesn't mean PS's software sales with digital would all of a sudden become good. You are seriously underestimating how large the physical/digital ratios have to be to even match WiiU software in Japan. I wasn't saying you said Switch was a bad console, I meant if someone thinks it is, it doesn't matter. It's purely subjective, sales aren't subjective. Although I guess you're right actually and WiiU is an amazing success. 

I also never compared Switch software to PS5 software in Japan, I have literally been saying lower than WiiU and Vita this entire time. It can't go much lower than that. Also the software sales have been posted by another user above.

Switch's attach ratio isn't comparable to PS4's because its a dead console and software continues to sale after the hardware sales have basically ceased leading to a higher attach ratio. Switch's attach ratio will climb when its as dead as PS4 and PS2. What do you think the PS5s current attach ratio is? Might I also add that Nintendo doesn't include their digital only software like Sony does for PS4. Switch's attach ratio will be very comparable when its dead and gone.

My apologies, you are right as well. It really wasn't pesstimitic at all, Switch completely overperformed. I never went at you for that, but I do find it annoying to told that was my stick. If you actually read what i said, I wasn't coming at you for that, it wasn't pesstimitic at all. I thought you were lying and that's what I accused you of. Its over though and I understand where I went wrong with you, I don't like Don trying to continue it though.

Thank you for this post, its objective the PS5's software sales are worse than WiiU. That is horrific. You don't have to think they are but if they do it, they should be called out for it. Don has consistently said something I did, completely ignoring what was actually said. So either he is lying or he cant read. If he doesn't understand, then ask for my clarification instead of making something up. He did neither because its intential on his part, he wants to push that agenda. So I have to call him exactly what it looks like.

Your own words "the reasons its bad to you is irrelevant to the market". That seem pretty much claiming I said it, is that lying or dishonest?

Considering Sony own documentation it should be about 50% or higher digital, so if you have physical sales you could double that number to have a general idea of total (sure some titles will be much different from that, and for indies and the like well it is 100% digital and don't even show in charts), but again I was just pointing out why looking only at the rank of physical sales don't give you total SW sold by the system at all.

The sales Shtinamin posted is only for the titles that ranked (you can even see that he put "min"), so it doesn't cover all the titles launched for PS5 over there. I'll keep waiting for you to provide credible sources for total sales of SW by PS4 and PS5 launch aligned in Japan.

By the time those numbers were posted PS4 wasn't dead (The article https://www.tweaktown.com/news/79015/ps4-is-the-king-of-software-with-1-5-billion-games-sold-dethrones-ps2/index.html is from Apr/2021 so not even 6 months after PS5 launch), and that is why I said that it is quite possible that the attach ratio grew since them to be closer to 15. 

PS4 was about 8 years old by the time of that 13.34, and Switch is 7 years old. Do you think Switch will climb from 8,6 to 13 in a year?

From Sony site you would have the attach ratio of 9.4 for PS1, 9.9 for PS2, 11.43 for PS3 all truly dead systems (https://sonyinteractive.com/en/our-company/business-data-sales/)

For PS5 attach ratio I'll look into the yearly of PS4 first to see how the attach ratio evolved (even though that site is missing the data of SW for 2013 up to 2015, I'll get that from their yearly reports, the first years will likely be a little less precise, but bear with me).

2013 LTD 7.6M HW and 384M SW total (no PS4 only data) so if we would consider 10% of that to be for PS4 we would get 38M -> 5 attach ratio

2014 LTD 22.4M and 460M SW sold that year let's consider that it was 20% for PS4 92M+38M(2013) -> 5.8 attach ratio

2015 LTD 40.1M and 158.7M SW (from the link of 1.5B total, so I'll consider that as lump of the previous years together) -> 3.95

2016 (now we have both from Sony) LTD 60.1M and 234.2M+158.7= 392.9M->6.5

2017 LTD 79.1M and 274.2M+392.9M=667.1->8.43 (so on 4th full year it was equal to Switch)

2018 LTD 96.9M and 292.7M+667.1M=959.8M -> 9.9

2019 LTD 110.4M and 276.1+959.8M=1.236B -> 11.2

2020 (let's call this the last alive year if you want?) LTD 116.1M and SW 173.2+1.236 = 1.4B ->12.06 (7th full year on the market)

2021 (to match the 1.562B SW and 117.1M HW) -> 13.34

Of course none of those numbers is 100% precise, even more because Sony didn't give specifics every year for each system. But we can use it to get a ballpark?

Let's do a similar exercise for PS5

2020 LTD 7.8M and 165.6M SW (and we are going to use the same very low 10% distribution) so 16.6 M -> 2.13 attach ratio

2021 LTD 19.3M and 303.2M SW (and 20% of that for PS5) so 60.6M+16.6M= 77.2M -> 4 attach ratio

2022 LTD 38.4M and 264.2M SW (here let's use 50% for PS5) so 132.1M+77.2M= 209.3M -> 5.45

2023 LTD 46.6M and 124.1M SW (from here on we can go for all on PS5) so 124.1+309.3M -> 9.3

(on this period I have been very conservative for PS5 SW sales, because total SW sold would be 857,1M and we saw that for most reports we had when a crossgen title was available more sales were on PS5 than PS4 even with its userbase being much smaller, you can also see that from the MAU it is about 50M PS5 and 70M PS4 - even though it had 117M sold -> this would mean that I'm only giving PS5 36% of total SW sold on PS since it launch, very small proportion but would be one year ahead of PS4 on attach ratio and already above Switch and that is without considering that all PS4 titles can be played on PS5)

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2023/230509_3e.pdf Nintendo count the digital sales (they don't provide to Circana and the like), so the about 1B sold SW is counting digital.

Now I'm back to wait you providing credible source for total SW sold by PS4 and PS5 per year in Japan.