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Phenomajp13 on 18 January 2024
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DonFerrari said:
Phenomajp13 said:

You can mind your business, you ask me to get over it but have no issue with these people putting words in my mouth. We have already moved passed it. If you don't understand how his post looked misleading then you aren't paying enough attention. It was cleared between us already and yet Don felt the need to continue to post about it. Being dishonest about what I actually said. This isn't about xtrem but instead Don posting nonsense. So you could do your job and tell him to mind his business if he can't atleast post about situations honestly.

DonFerrari said:

Ok I'll wait for the approval to post sales data. By physical sale you mean SW sales made in physical format? And you do know that in general PS have more digital sales than switch (and Xbox even more, with S pushing the boundary even higher).

Are you putting words on my mouth, lying or being dishonest here? Because I didn't said Switch is bad, I said it is weak and below mediocre IF WE USE THE SAME METHOD AS YOU. If we go and compare Switch HW to PS5/Series/PC Switch is much below average. But that comparison is faulty as is yours on comparing SW sale in japan for Switch and PS5, unless you also want to say that Switch attach ratio is terrible and below mediocre because consoles have an attach ratio of around 12 for like the last 3 gens and Switch is only 8.63?

I did mention 3DS together with the WiiU on the chart argument. Neither of those were as dominating as is Switch so if you only look at ranking and there was more ranking games on PS4 vs 3DS than PS5 vs Switch that is one of the reasons, and digital increase is also another.

You can skip the whole 7 of 52 titles on the 1M club for Switch part if you want. The attach ratio of 8.6 and 50% split of 3rd party comes from Nintendo itself and that give you 4.3 3rd party games on Switch and 11 on PS5 and if you look for total on Switch it is about 0.5B and on PS4 (that is where we had a firm number of 1.5B total in 2021) would be 1.3B and whenever PS5 is mature enough to be over 100M on HW the SW will probably be near that as well. Would you them say that Switch attach ratio is below mediocre and laughable compared to PS?

Regarding your old account I didn't see your post, what was your user?

Yes software sales in physical format, PS having higher digital ratios to Switch doesn't mean PS's software sales with digital would all of a sudden become good. You are seriously underestimating how large the physical/digital ratios have to be to even match WiiU software in Japan. I wasn't saying you said Switch was a bad console, I meant if someone thinks it is, it doesn't matter. It's purely subjective, sales aren't subjective. Although I guess you're right actually and WiiU is an amazing success. 

I also never compared Switch software to PS5 software in Japan, I have literally been saying lower than WiiU and Vita this entire time. It can't go much lower than that. Also the software sales have been posted by another user above.

Switch's attach ratio isn't comparable to PS4's because its a dead console and software continues to sale after the hardware sales have basically ceased leading to a higher attach ratio. Switch's attach ratio will climb when its as dead as PS4 and PS2. What do you think the PS5s current attach ratio is? Might I also add that Nintendo doesn't include their digital only software like Sony does for PS4. Switch's attach ratio will be very comparable when its dead and gone.

My apologies, you are right as well. It really wasn't pesstimitic at all, Switch completely overperformed. I never went at you for that, but I do find it annoying to told that was my stick. If you actually read what i said, I wasn't coming at you for that, it wasn't pesstimitic at all. I thought you were lying and that's what I accused you of. Its over though and I understand where I went wrong with you, I don't like Don trying to continue it though.

Shtinamin_ said:

I dont think DonFerrari was referring to Switch global performance (if I'm wrong on that please correct me).

Anyways, regarding PS5 and the WiiU in Japan only.

PS5 WiiU
Hardware Sales 4.97M 3.33M
Software Sales Min 4.35M 15.83M

Data comes from VGChartz & Famitsu Top 30 Software 2020-2024. If you find anything better please share with the class.

You are comparing a 3 year old console to a 5 year old console.

You cant compare apples to oranges. But looking at the chart, yes PS5 is having a rough time with PS5 specific software for now. Playstation isn't as popular in Japan as it is in Europe or the Americas.

And I dont appreciate the personal bashing. No one thinks that DonFerrari is a liar. Neither is XtremeBG.

Objective: Verifiable information based on facts and evidence.
Subjective: Subjective relates to personal viewpoints, experiences, or perspectives, whereas objective refers to factual data that is not influenced by personal beliefs or biases.
In this sense, sales are hard facts both software and hardware. Technology comparison between consoles is fact.
Having a preference is an opinion.

Facts don't care about your feelings. Suck it up.

Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.

Thank you for this post, its objective the PS5's software sales are worse than WiiU. That is horrific. You don't have to think they are but if they do it, they should be called out for it. Don has consistently said something I did, completely ignoring what was actually said. So either he is lying or he cant read. If he doesn't understand, then ask for my clarification instead of making something up. He did neither because its intential on his part, he wants to push that agenda. So I have to call him exactly what it looks like.

Your own words "the reasons its bad to you is irrelevant to the market". That seem pretty much claiming I said it, is that lying or dishonest?

Considering Sony own documentation it should be about 50% or higher digital, so if you have physical sales you could double that number to have a general idea of total (sure some titles will be much different from that, and for indies and the like well it is 100% digital and don't even show in charts), but again I was just pointing out why looking only at the rank of physical sales don't give you total SW sold by the system at all.

The sales Shtinamin posted is only for the titles that ranked (you can even see that he put "min"), so it doesn't cover all the titles launched for PS5 over there. I'll keep waiting for you to provide credible sources for total sales of SW by PS4 and PS5 launch aligned in Japan.

By the time those numbers were posted PS4 wasn't dead (The article https://www.tweaktown.com/news/79015/ps4-is-the-king-of-software-with-1-5-billion-games-sold-dethrones-ps2/index.html is from Apr/2021 so not even 6 months after PS5 launch), and that is why I said that it is quite possible that the attach ratio grew since them to be closer to 15. 

PS4 was about 8 years old by the time of that 13.34, and Switch is 7 years old. Do you think Switch will climb from 8,6 to 13 in a year?

From Sony site you would have the attach ratio of 9.4 for PS1, 9.9 for PS2, 11.43 for PS3 all truly dead systems (https://sonyinteractive.com/en/our-company/business-data-sales/)

For PS5 attach ratio I'll look into the yearly of PS4 first to see how the attach ratio evolved (even though that site is missing the data of SW for 2013 up to 2015, I'll get that from their yearly reports, the first years will likely be a little less precise, but bear with me).

2013 LTD 7.6M HW and 384M SW total (no PS4 only data) so if we would consider 10% of that to be for PS4 we would get 38M -> 5 attach ratio

2014 LTD 22.4M and 460M SW sold that year let's consider that it was 20% for PS4 92M+38M(2013) -> 5.8 attach ratio

2015 LTD 40.1M and 158.7M SW (from the link of 1.5B total, so I'll consider that as lump of the previous years together) -> 3.95

2016 (now we have both from Sony) LTD 60.1M and 234.2M+158.7= 392.9M->6.5

2017 LTD 79.1M and 274.2M+392.9M=667.1->8.43 (so on 4th full year it was equal to Switch)

2018 LTD 96.9M and 292.7M+667.1M=959.8M -> 9.9

2019 LTD 110.4M and 276.1+959.8M=1.236B -> 11.2

2020 (let's call this the last alive year if you want?) LTD 116.1M and SW 173.2+1.236 = 1.4B ->12.06 (7th full year on the market)

2021 (to match the 1.562B SW and 117.1M HW) -> 13.34

Of course none of those numbers is 100% precise, even more because Sony didn't give specifics every year for each system. But we can use it to get a ballpark?

Let's do a similar exercise for PS5

2020 LTD 7.8M and 165.6M SW (and we are going to use the same very low 10% distribution) so 16.6 M -> 2.13 attach ratio

2021 LTD 19.3M and 303.2M SW (and 20% of that for PS5) so 60.6M+16.6M= 77.2M -> 4 attach ratio

2022 LTD 38.4M and 264.2M SW (here let's use 50% for PS5) so 132.1M+77.2M= 209.3M -> 5.45

2023 LTD 46.6M and 124.1M SW (from here on we can go for all on PS5) so 124.1+309.3M -> 9.3

(on this period I have been very conservative for PS5 SW sales, because total SW sold would be 857,1M and we saw that for most reports we had when a crossgen title was available more sales were on PS5 than PS4 even with its userbase being much smaller, you can also see that from the MAU it is about 50M PS5 and 70M PS4 - even though it had 117M sold -> this would mean that I'm only giving PS5 36% of total SW sold on PS since it launch, very small proportion but would be one year ahead of PS4 on attach ratio and already above Switch and that is without considering that all PS4 titles can be played on PS5)

https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2023/230509_3e.pdf Nintendo count the digital sales (they don't provide to Circana and the like), so the about 1B sold SW is counting digital.

Now I'm back to wait you providing credible source for total SW sold by PS4 and PS5 per year in Japan.

My bad on the first part, I didn't mean it that way just an example of things being subjective for many different reasons (power, convenience). Software sales being lower than WiiU and Vita is objective. Even with PS market being 50% for example, that would only match WiiU. Don't you think that should still be considered bad? Or do we now consider matching WiiU an accomplishment? 

As for the source, I asked and I would have to link to the forum because the date was compiled using data from Mediacreate among other sources, would that be allowed? This is getting pointless though because you are just using the good old "we don't have the full data, so no definitive things can be stated" escuse. The PS5's performance in the top 30 on a weekly basis is attorcious, no way to spin that. It has sold more than enough hardware to have competing software. Do you think Switch 2 will struggle this mightly in its first couple weeks? It's userbase will be lower than PS5s, so its software should do just as poorly I guess. 

Great data, only issue is that you also said Xbox had better attach ratios (which you didn't bother to compare) and regardless the only thing you proved was poorer selling consoles like PS3 and PS4 have higher attach ratios. Simple math could have taught you that, the denomiator in a fraction/ratio is higher for higher selling consoles because the denominator is the hardware base. Switch will definitely challenge PS1 and PS2, also PS3 will not be out of reach at the end of its life. So is Switch mediocre in attach ratios due to just PS4? PS5 isn't mediocre in Japan software sales just because of Switch, I have been comparing to Vita and WiiU which are the bottom of the barrel. Also, you are incorrect about digital only games being included in Switch total software. Games with physical and digital releases are included in Switch total software but games that were only released on eshop are not included. I assume Nintendo does this because they are likely very cheap (mobile like games) and contribute low revenue. I don't know for sure though, but every Nintendo quarterly thread I have read has this notation. So Switch is certainly missing a chunk of software that Sony includes. What do you think the Switch's attach ratio will finish at (according to Nintendo's data, so not including the unknown digital only games)?

Last edited by Phenomajp13 - on 18 January 2024