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Forums - Gaming Discussion - David Jaffe's take on Metroid Dread

Mercury Steam folks are obsessed with God of War, which makes it even funnier.



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I hate hand holding in video games. I strongly believe that a good portion of Minecrafts success can be attributed to the very, very few explanations the game gives as how to play it.
Kingdom Hearts 1 was hard at points because you were just not sure where to go or what to do. In Kingdom Hearts 2 you had a constant goal and marker infront of your nose.
Breath of the Wild I think is another such example. Just do whatever - with this statement a game forces you to really be in the world and not just working on a checklist.
From Software games I think are even a bit too obtuse for me. Sekiro was way better in this regard than Bloodborne - the only two I tried (and I loved Sekiro).

Handholding is also linked to dicipline - often enough markers and maps and explanations can be turned off - but I don't usually do that, thinking something like: yeah, but it is way faster with all the shit turned on. - I heard someone saying once that they had the best gaming experience of their life after they turned off just about everything in The Witcher 3. All the explanations are in the game itself - you don't need menus and huds and the likes. Just look at your surroundings and you will find what you were looking for - or something better.

I truly hope games (especially open world, but everything really) start to be less in your face about objectives and questlogs and markers and waypoints and minimaps and combat-timing-indicators,...

When I hear difficulty in games I usually exclusively think about combat. But part of it surely also is to find out what your objective is and how to reach it. Overcoming a tough enemy feels really good. But being lost and exploring and than finding the thing you were looking for by using the in-game world as your guide feels just as good. Combat can be hard in many games. But hand holding is turned up to 11 as default in most modern games I feel.



I definitely think there are some instances in this game that are poor design, but this is absolutely not one of them. The fact that you can see what's above you itself should tell you that this is a potentially breakable ceiling.



RolStoppable said:

This is at a point in the game where it has long been established that breakable blocks will be a common thing. It's not even an obscure room where more open space becomes visible only after breaking certain blocks, what we have here is a room where it is in plain sight that shooting the ceiling could lead further.

A player has to act deliberately obtuse to not shoot this particular ceiling, so I can only assume that Jaffe had realized this early in the game that it's better than anything he has ever made and was already looking for reasons to justify why that is not the case. He's reaching hard and everyone who has played the game notices this immediately. He's not providing criticism, but mere desperation to find something to complain about.

But to be fair, it may not be the case that he dislikes the game because it's better than everything he ever did. He could very well be just a plain old Nintendo hater, because that type of personality results in the same mindboggling drivel.

Right? He must do this on purpose. He can't be that incompetent... or can he?



This guy has been not only playing but developing games when many of us were still in diapers, so I wouldn't just dismiss his criticism out of hand. He's not flawless either and he knows it, he has been very open in other videos about his own mistakes in game design.
I know it is very hard to be objective when some of your favorite games are criticized, I get that. I fall for that too.
I have no experience of Metroid myself, so I don't really have a dog in this race. I do think that knowledge of previous games in the series should not be a requirement for progression, so "that's always been a thing in Metroid" is not a good argument. Based on the footage presented, I wouldn't have guessed that the ceiling is destructible either. I might have tried it eventually just to see but I would hate to have to just fire randomly to find things in a game all the time, whatever game it may be. Maybe there's something in the game instructions that covers this kind of situation, Jaffe says he's ADHD so maybe he just missed something.
In any case, I don't think this is a huge deal.



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Dante9 said:

This guy has been not only playing but developing games when many of us were still in diapers, so I wouldn't just dismiss his criticism out of hand. He's not flawless either and he knows it, he has been very open in other videos about his own mistakes in game design.
I know it is very hard to be objective when some of your favorite games are criticized, I get that. I fall for that too.
I have no experience of Metroid myself, so I don't really have a dog in this race. I do think that knowledge of previous games in the series should not be a requirement for progression, so "that's always been a thing in Metroid" is not a good argument. Based on the footage presented, I wouldn't have guessed that the ceiling is destructible either. I might have tried it eventually just to see but I would hate to have to just fire randomly to find things in a game all the time, whatever game it may be. Maybe there's something in the game instructions that covers this kind of situation, Jaffe says he's ADHD so maybe he just missed something.
In any case, I don't think this is a huge deal.

The game has a tutorial the specifically tells the player to shoot walls to destroy them, and most walls are clearly marked.  Again, I don't care if Jaffe likes the game or not, but it is explained.  Dread explains most everything and leaves the player to explore.  Seems like his problem is more than Dread doesn't have great arrows telling the player exactly what to do and where to go, which is kind of the point of Metroid.



Dante9 said:

This guy has been not only playing but developing games when many of us were still in diapers, so I wouldn't just dismiss his criticism out of hand. He's not flawless either and he knows it, he has been very open in other videos about his own mistakes in game design.
I know it is very hard to be objective when some of your favorite games are criticized, I get that. I fall for that too.
I have no experience of Metroid myself, so I don't really have a dog in this race. I do think that knowledge of previous games in the series should not be a requirement for progression, so "that's always been a thing in Metroid" is not a good argument. Based on the footage presented, I wouldn't have guessed that the ceiling is destructible either. I might have tried it eventually just to see but I would hate to have to just fire randomly to find things in a game all the time, whatever game it may be. Maybe there's something in the game instructions that covers this kind of situation, Jaffe says he's ADHD so maybe he just missed something.
In any case, I don't think this is a huge deal.

But especially because he is a long time veteran developor, then we could expect a more sophisticated look on this game and the situation, no?

Actually, you don't need any history with the series at all. This can be your very first Metroid game and you will still be perfectly fine. Looking at this room we can see a lot of clues. The background for example is one orange plate that connects below and above that particular ceiling. There are enemies below and above it. Also the camera zooms out a bit to draw your attention to the upper right corner of the room. And then of course is that enemy crawling on that specific ceiling. You have seen these enemies on other ceilings before and killed them already, so naturally you'll kill this one as well, and just when you do that you will shoot on the wall by accident. This is exactly how so many other streamers did it who were all in the first video. Finally, let's not forget that the game soft locks you in this spot so you really have no other choice but to go on from here since all other routes are blocked. The game already taught him that he can shoot in any direction, but here in this room he deliberately doesn't do it but shoots only straight. So, no, he has no excuse. 



I think the main problem of Jaffe (and others too) is the thinking, that every game is for every player. Stuff like this is going into a romantic comedy and then complain it doesn't have enough action, or more similar to Jaffe's complaint: go into a mystery thriller and complain I need to follow so many characters and clue to understand the plot. Well, maybe a new action flix is more to the liking of the person, while the mystery fan might scoff at the superficial plot.

The same is true for games. I think it is easier to explain with puzzles: some games put puzzles in front of the player to progress. In olden times a whole genre, the point-and-click adventures, were based around a sequence of puzzles, which each locked away some progress in the main plot. but here comes the problem: if the puzzles are too easy, too obvious, the game feels hollow, without challenge. If the puzzles are too hard, the solutions too obscure, it may be frustrating, even infuriating. But what is too obvious or too far-fetched depends a lot on the person playing.

In Monkey Island in a puzzle you used a monkey as a monkey wrench. Some thought this a funny joke and intelligent puzzle which adds to their experience, while others think this is an absolutely stupid and frustrating puzzle. What is right here? Probably that for some players this makes the game great, while for others not.

So here we are, at the conclusion that not every game is for every gamer. I personally suck at platforming. I just can't get the timing right. So I know every platformer will have at some time a platforming challenge I cannot overcome. Instead of saying this is stupid game design, I choose to play diffferent games. That is a much better solution. Because I know, other players will love these platforming challenges and why should I diminish their fun by demanding all games platforming should be on the level of baby's first platformer (which probably still is too hard for me) and therefore become boring and unfun.



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Dunno why people are shitting on him for this. I had the exact same experience when I first played Metroid. After getting the bombs, I had pretty much no idea where to go, to the point where I simply gave up on the game within about a half hour.

Granted, this was Metroid 2, and I was 6 years old...