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Forums - Gaming Discussion - What is your opinion on gaming subscription services?

 

My opinion is best summed up as:

Subscribed to at least one and like it 35 35.71%
 
Subscribed to at least one and not a fan 6 6.12%
 
Thinking about subscribing 6 6.12%
 
Was a subscriber and lapsed 4 4.08%
 
Will subscribe for big games and then drop 4 4.08%
 
Zero interest at all 28 28.57%
 
None of the current subs ... 8 8.16%
 
Other 7 7.14%
 
Total:98
Cerebralbore101 said:
Conina said:

Eco system <> operating system, especially if it is an open OS.

Here is Phil spencer referring to the PC as an ecosystem. https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2019/05/30/microsoft-approach-to-pc-gaming/

Today I’d like to share three steps we are taking to contribute to the thriving PC gaming ecosystem.

So your idea that ecosystem and operating system are two different things is false. 

PC Gaming Ecosystem which they're contributing to but not saying they own.

The PC Gaming Ecosystem is made up of multiple ecosystems, like Windows Store, Steam, Epic Games Store, etc.

In that post he even mentions specifically and separately the "Windows Gaming Ecosystem" in relation to the Windows Store.



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Not for me as I don't play every game under the sun, few games are worth my time and my hobbies are varied. With that said, I have an active PS+ subscription since the PS3 era even though I haven't purchased a PS4 as I was busy working harder than I intend to do in the next few years. I plan on buying a PS5 and make use of the games I collected over the 8th generation through PS+. 

It's actually one of the smartest budget decisions I have ever made; 270+ games and counting for me to select from whenever I buy a PS5, all for the price of 30 dollars a year. I know many believe MS invented good deals with gamepass, but it's actually less expensive for me to keep paying for PS+

Last edited by LurkerJ - on 02 May 2021

Ryuu96 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

1. Even if we were to incorrectly assume that they only meant within their own ecosystem they would still have a deeply flawed dataset. Their ecosystem includes PC. Microsoft does not have a way to track all sales of games on Steam, GoG, EGS, or any of other multitude of stores on PC. Microsoft can only track purchases made through the Windows Store, or purchases of games they themselves have developed. Example: If I buy Halo MCC on PC via steam, MS knows I spent that money, because it's their game. If I buy a 3rd party game through the windows store MS once again knows I spent that money, because it's their store. But if I buy a non-MS game on Steam, GoG, EGS, or any other PC storefront MS has no way of knowing I bought that game. 

2.  Xbox Exec Sarah Bond said, "Game Pass subscribers spend 20% more time playing games, play 30% more games, play 40% more genres and, crucially, spend about 20% more on gaming overall." Overall means to take everything into account. 

Of course someone could argue that she meant overall as in all types purchases made in Xbox's storefront (including MTX, XBL Subscriptions, and DLC packs). Had she simply said overall, or overall revenue and not gaming overall then that interpretation would make sense. But of course that isn't what gaming overall means. If I were to ask you how much money was spent in 2020 on gaming overall you wouldn't come back to me with only money spent on Xbox games. You would come back to me with information on how much money was spent on gaming including Mobile, Switch, PC, Xbox, Sony, and browser games at the very least. 

It's obvious here that when she said "gaming overall" she meant the entirety of gaming. Either that or she doesn't know the meaning of the words that she is using. And if she didn't mean "gaming overall", but instead meant "Xbox ecosystem revenue overall" then that's on her for failing to properly communicate. 

There's another option, you're seeing what you want to see, this is the first time I've ever seen this line of questioning, Lol.

Overall doesn't have to mean the entire industry when we're talking in the context of a specific ecosystem.

The bolded does make sense even in the "gaming overall" context, because they're talking about their own ecosystem. If you asked me it wouldn't be the same context because I don't work for any corporation, so of course I would give a comment on the overall industry, if you ask a company, why the hell are they going to mention numbers for Sony/Nintendo which they don't know? They're going to talk about their own ecosystem because that is what matters most to them.

Context matters, if folk can't understand context then that is on them. For something so obvious it is the first time I've seen someone suggest this and most fans assumed they were talking about their own ecosystem...Where are the folk suggesting that she meant the overall industry apart from you?

Ryuu96 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

If Sony owned Windows, then yes we would define Sony's gaming ecosystem as all Playstation consoles + the whole PC platform. Especially if the vast majority of Sony titles were available for purchase on PC. 

...Why would you define Sony's gaming ecosystem as the entire PC platform simply for owning Windows? They'd also have to own Epic Store, Windows Store and Steam...

Windows =/= Gaming Ecosystem.

Xbox's Gaming Ecosystem is Xbox Store and Windows Store. Steam is an extension but not their ecosystem, it's Valves.

They don't own every PC storefront, therefore windows is not their ecosystem? They own the OS, therefore it is their ecosystem. Just because they allow other storefronts on Windows doesn't mean that Windows is not their ecosystem. 

Ryuu96 said:

Dear lord you're still ignoring context...

I never said Xbox execs can only mean Xbox when saying Overall Gaming but when talking about what Game Pass members spend in comparison to non-subscribers it is so damn obvious they're talking about their own ecosystem...

Context!!!

I'll say again, for something so obvious, this is the first time I've seen this debate, you're also the only person here debating that they meant the entire industry, nobody else is suggesting that they meant that, Angelus didn't suggest that they meant that when he posted it, you're reading what you want to read.

If you asked me it wouldn't be the same context because I don't work for any corporation, so of course I would give a comment on the overall industry, if you ask a company, why the hell are they going to mention numbers for Sony/Nintendo which they don't know? They're going to talk about their own ecosystem because that is what matters most to them.

That same logic would lead us to think that if you asked Phil Spencer how many consoles have sold worldwide for 8th gen, he'd respond with only Xbox numbers. After all, he would only talk about his own ecosystem because that's what matters to him. But in the article I linked to he's including more than just Xbox consoles. 

The PC Gaming Ecosystem is made up of multiple ecosystems, like Windows Store, Steam, Epic Games Store, etc.

In that post he even mentions specifically and separately the "Windows Gaming Ecosystem" in relation to the Windows Store.

From the article...

"We want creators to be inspired to bring their best content to Windows 10, and we want Windows 10 to be the place where gamers come to discover their next favorite PC game. We recognize that Win32 is the app format that game developers love to use and gamers love to play, so we are excited to share that we will be enabling full support for native Win32 games to the Microsoft Store on Windows. This will unlock more options for developers and gamers alike, allowing for the customization and control they’ve come to expect from the open Windows gaming ecosystem."

He's not saying that the Windows Store is it's own ecosystem. If anything he's admitting that Windows as a whole is a gaming ecosystem. 

1. Windows is a gaming ecosystem. 

2. Microsoft owns windows. 

3. Therefore Microsoft owns a gaming ecosystem. 

4. If Windows is a gaming ecosystem that Microsoft owns, then Windows is included in Microsoft's overall gaming ecosystem. Whether or not they have absolute and total control over that ecosystem is beside the point. It still belongs to them. 

So when you say "They're only talking about their own ecosystem" you are essentially saying "They are only talking about Windows + Xbox". 

But they don't have a way to track all spending across Windows. So, even if we incorrectly assume that they mean only their own ecosystem their claim that Gamepass users spend more money than non-gamepass users is relying on a deeply flawed dataset. 

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 02 May 2021

Cerebralbore101 said:
Ryuu96 said:

-Snip-

Ryuu96 said:

-Snip-

They don't own every PC storefront, therefore windows is not their ecosystem? They own the OS, therefore it is their ecosystem. Just because they allow other storefronts on Windows doesn't mean that Windows is not their ecosystem. 

Ryuu96 said:

Dear lord you're still ignoring context...

I never said Xbox execs can only mean Xbox when saying Overall Gaming but when talking about what Game Pass members spend in comparison to non-subscribers it is so damn obvious they're talking about their own ecosystem...

Context!!!

I'll say again, for something so obvious, this is the first time I've seen this debate, you're also the only person here debating that they meant the entire industry, nobody else is suggesting that they meant that, Angelus didn't suggest that they meant that when he posted it, you're reading what you want to read.

The PC Gaming Ecosystem is made up of multiple ecosystems, like Windows Store, Steam, Epic Games Store, etc.

In that post he even mentions specifically and separately the "Windows Gaming Ecosystem" in relation to the Windows Store.

From the article...

"We want creators to be inspired to bring their best content to Windows 10, and we want Windows 10 to be the place where gamers come to discover their next favorite PC game. We recognize that Win32 is the app format that game developers love to use and gamers love to play, so we are excited to share that we will be enabling full support for native Win32 games to the Microsoft Store on Windows. This will unlock more options for developers and gamers alike, allowing for the customization and control they’ve come to expect from the open Windows gaming ecosystem."

He's not saying that the Windows Store is it's own ecosystem. If anything he's admitting that Windows as a whole is a gaming ecosystem. 

1. Windows is a gaming ecosystem. 

2. Microsoft owns windows. 

3. Therefore Microsoft owns a gaming ecosystem. 

4. If Windows is a gaming ecosystem that Microsoft owns, then Windows is included in Microsoft's overall gaming ecosystem. Whether or not they have absolute and total control over that ecosystem is beside the point. It still belongs to them. 

So when you say "They're only talking about their own ecosystem" you are essentially saying "They are only talking about Windows + Xbox". 

But they don't have a way to track all spending across Windows. So, even if we incorrectly assume that they mean only their own ecosystem their claim that Gamepass users spend more money than non-gamepass users is relying on a deeply flawed dataset. 

"They don't own every PC storefront, therefore windows is not their ecosystem? They own the OS, therefore it is their ecosystem. Just because they allow other storefronts on Windows doesn't mean that Windows is not their ecosystem."

Not what I said, of course Windows is their ecosystem, but here is what you said about Playstation.

"If Sony owned Windows, then yes we would define Sony's gaming ecosystem as all Playstation consoles + the whole PC platform. Especially if the vast majority of Sony titles were available for purchase on PC."

Why would you define Sony's Gaming Ecosystem as the entire PC Platform? Which is made up of Ecosystems such as Epic Games Store and Steam, you wouldn't, because they don't own those ecosystems.

Again, context, that whole quote and the subtitle above is it literally about supporting Win 32 on the Microsoft Store

Windows is not a Gaming Ecosystem, it has Gaming Ecosystems that exist inside of it though, but you don't even need Windows for some of these Gaming Ecosystems. Microsoft owns a Gaming Ecosystem in Xbox + Windows Store.

"So when you say "They're only talking about their own ecosystem" you are essentially saying "They are only talking about Windows + Xbox".

....Yes....Lmao...They're only talking about Xbox Store + Windows Store, the ecosystems that they own.

Who owns Steam's ecosystem? Microsoft or Valve?

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 02 May 2021

Cerebralbore101 said:
Conina said:

Eco system <> operating system, especially if it is an open OS.

Here is Phil spencer referring to the PC as an ecosystem. https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2019/05/30/microsoft-approach-to-pc-gaming/

Today I’d like to share three steps we are taking to contribute to the thriving PC gaming ecosystem.

So your idea that ecosystem and operating system are two different things is false. 

OS and eco system can be the same or overlap or one part includes the other.

I wanted to keep it simple for you, but here we go:

  • eco systems can contain other eco systems (f. e. Europe, Western Europe, Germany, France, Bavaria, United Kingdoms, England, Scotland...)
  • eco systems can overlap

For video games there are a lot of eco systems, some of them overlapping:

You seem to always google for quotes and keywords, but ignore the context of each quote.



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Ryuu96 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Ryuu96 said:

-Snip-

They don't own every PC storefront, therefore windows is not their ecosystem? They own the OS, therefore it is their ecosystem. Just because they allow other storefronts on Windows doesn't mean that Windows is not their ecosystem. 

The PC Gaming Ecosystem is made up of multiple ecosystems, like Windows Store, Steam, Epic Games Store, etc.

In that post he even mentions specifically and separately the "Windows Gaming Ecosystem" in relation to the Windows Store.

From the article...

"We want creators to be inspired to bring their best content to Windows 10, and we want Windows 10 to be the place where gamers come to discover their next favorite PC game. We recognize that Win32 is the app format that game developers love to use and gamers love to play, so we are excited to share that we will be enabling full support for native Win32 games to the Microsoft Store on Windows. This will unlock more options for developers and gamers alike, allowing for the customization and control they’ve come to expect from the open Windows gaming ecosystem."

He's not saying that the Windows Store is it's own ecosystem. If anything he's admitting that Windows as a whole is a gaming ecosystem. 

1. Windows is a gaming ecosystem. 

2. Microsoft owns windows. 

3. Therefore Microsoft owns a gaming ecosystem. 

4. If Windows is a gaming ecosystem that Microsoft owns, then Windows is included in Microsoft's overall gaming ecosystem. Whether or not they have absolute and total control over that ecosystem is beside the point. It still belongs to them. 

So when you say "They're only talking about their own ecosystem" you are essentially saying "They are only talking about Windows + Xbox". 

But they don't have a way to track all spending across Windows. So, even if we incorrectly assume that they mean only their own ecosystem their claim that Gamepass users spend more money than non-gamepass users is relying on a deeply flawed dataset. 

"They don't own every PC storefront, therefore windows is not their ecosystem? They own the OS, therefore it is their ecosystem. Just because they allow other storefronts on Windows doesn't mean that Windows is not their ecosystem."

Not what I said, of course Windows is their ecosystem, but here is what you said about Playstation.

"If Sony owned Windows, then yes we would define Sony's gaming ecosystem as all Playstation consoles + the whole PC platform. Especially if the vast majority of Sony titles were available for purchase on PC."

Why would you define Sony's Gaming Ecosystem as the entire PC Platform? Which is made up of Ecosystems such as Epic Games Store and Steam, you wouldn't, because they don't own those ecosystems.

Again, context, that whole quote and the subtitle above is it literally about supporting Win 32 on the Microsoft Store

Windows is not a Gaming Ecosystem, it has Gaming Ecosystems that exist inside of it though, but you don't even need Windows for some of these Gaming Ecosystems. Microsoft owns a Gaming Ecosystem in Xbox + Windows Store.

I was just thinking about quoting Conina there and mentioning that technically Microsoft doesn't own the entire PC ecosystem because people game on Linux. Defining Microsoft's ecosystem as the entire PC platform isn't 100% correct. It would be far more accurate to define Microsoft's ecosystem as the entire Windows OS + Xbox. 

But that still leaves us with Microsoft's ecosystem being defined as the entirety of Windows, which leaves my argument intact. 

Again, sorry in advance. I didn't think Linux was important enough to bother mentioning until now. 

You say that Windows is not a gaming ecosystem. Phil Spencer calls it a gaming ecosystem. There you have it. From the horse's mouth. 



Cerebralbore101 said:
Ryuu96 said:

"They don't own every PC storefront, therefore windows is not their ecosystem? They own the OS, therefore it is their ecosystem. Just because they allow other storefronts on Windows doesn't mean that Windows is not their ecosystem."

Not what I said, of course Windows is their ecosystem, but here is what you said about Playstation.

"If Sony owned Windows, then yes we would define Sony's gaming ecosystem as all Playstation consoles + the whole PC platform. Especially if the vast majority of Sony titles were available for purchase on PC."

Why would you define Sony's Gaming Ecosystem as the entire PC Platform? Which is made up of Ecosystems such as Epic Games Store and Steam, you wouldn't, because they don't own those ecosystems.

Again, context, that whole quote and the subtitle above is it literally about supporting Win 32 on the Microsoft Store

Windows is not a Gaming Ecosystem, it has Gaming Ecosystems that exist inside of it though, but you don't even need Windows for some of these Gaming Ecosystems. Microsoft owns a Gaming Ecosystem in Xbox + Windows Store.

I was just thinking about quoting Conina there and mentioning that technically Microsoft doesn't own the entire PC ecosystem because people game on Linux. Defining Microsoft's ecosystem as the entire PC platform isn't 100% correct. It would be far more accurate to define Microsoft's ecosystem as the entire Windows OS + Xbox. 

But that still leaves us with Microsoft's ecosystem being defined as the entirety of Windows, which leaves my argument intact. 

Again, sorry in advance. I didn't think Linux was important enough to bother mentioning until now. 

You say that Windows is not a gaming ecosystem. Phil Spencer calls it a gaming ecosystem. There you have it. From the horse's mouth. 

"The Windows Gaming Ecosystem" = Windows Store.

Windows I would not call specially a Gaming Ecosystem, Gaming is one of many things it does, it is more like one huge general purpose ecosystem in which exists sub-ecosystems.

Windows is Microsoft's Ecosystem.

Windows Store and Xbox Store are Microsoft's Gaming Ecosystems.

Steam is not Microsoft's ecosystem, it is Valve's.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 02 May 2021

Conina said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Here is Phil spencer referring to the PC as an ecosystem. https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2019/05/30/microsoft-approach-to-pc-gaming/

Today I’d like to share three steps we are taking to contribute to the thriving PC gaming ecosystem.

So your idea that ecosystem and operating system are two different things is false. 

OS and eco system can be the same or overlap or one part includes the other.

I wanted to keep it simple for you, but here we go:

  • eco systems can contain other eco systems (f. e. Europe, Western Europe, Germany, France, Bavaria, United Kingdoms, England, Scotland...)
  • eco systems can overlap

For video games there are a lot of eco systems, some of them overlapping:

You seem to always google for quotes and keywords, but ignore the context of each quote.

I see you have made a circle labeled "Windows Ecosystem". Thankyou for admitting that the Windows OS is an ecosystem.

1. Microsoft owns the Windows OS, therefore they own the ecosystem.

2. If MS owns the Windows ecosystem then it is a part of their ecosystem. 

3. Therefore assuming that a Microsoft Exec is talking about only their own ecosystem assumes that they are talking about the Windows ecosystem + Xbox. 

4. If we assume that they are talking about the Windows ecosystem then we assume they are talking about Steam, GoG, Uplay, etc, which is enveloped in the Windows OS ecosystem (as per your Venn diagram).

5. Microsoft was no way of tracking spending on Steam, GoG, Uplay, etc. (Outside of their own games that are available for purchase on those stores of course.)

So again, even if we make this incorrect assumption that Bond was only talking about MS' own ecosystem, their claim to know that Gamepass users spend more overall, (within their own ecosystem) is not supported by their deeply flawed dataset. 

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 02 May 2021

Oh My God.

Nobody said Windows OS isn't an ecosystem.

When Gaming Division talks about their ecosystems though they are very clearly and obviously referring to the Gaming Ecosystems that Microsoft owns which are Xbox Store and Windows Store.

It does not assume they're talking about every other store under the sun, especially when they don't even support a lot of them.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 02 May 2021

Ryuu96 said:

Oh My God.

Nobody said Windows OS isn't an ecosystem.

When Gaming Division talks about their ecosystems though they are very clearly and obviously referring to the Gaming Ecosystems that Microsoft owns which are Xbox Store and Windows Store.

It does not assume they're talking about every other launcher under the sun, especially when they don't even support a lot of them.

Conina said that Ecosystem <> Operating system. <> is shorthand for "Is not equal to". If an ecosystem is not an operating system (as he claims) then an operating system cannot be an ecosystem. 

1. As per Phil Spencer the Windows OS is a gaming ecosystem. 

2. Microsoft owns the Windows OS. 

3. Therefore even if we assume incorrectly that they were only referring to ecosystems that they owned, then we are assuming that they are referring to the Windows OS ecosystem.