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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo Switch Turns Four!

 

Rank the Switch as a console!

10 25 25.77%
 
9 33 34.02%
 
8 26 26.80%
 
7 7 7.22%
 
6 2 2.06%
 
5 0 0%
 
4 2 2.06%
 
3 2 2.06%
 
2 0 0%
 
1 0 0%
 
Total:97
Shiken said:
curl-6 said:

I would actually put Wii and N64 well ahead of Switch-to-date in term of high quality 1st and 2nd party games.

I mean, if I were to list the great-or-close-to-great ones I'd go:

Wii: Mario Galaxy 1 & 2, Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, Metroid Prime 3, Xenoblade, DKCR, Mario Kart Wii, Sin & Punishment 2, The Last Story. (10)

N64: Mario 64, Banjo Kazooie + Tooie, F Zero X, Ocarina of Time, Starfox 64. (6)

Switch: BOTW, Mario Odyssey, Splatoon 2, Xenoblade 2. (4)

For me, Switch needs to have Fire Emblem Three Houses, Astral Chain (Nintendo published, so 2nd party), Luigi's Mansion 3 (2nd party), Smash Ultimate, Animal Crossing New Horizons, and Mario Plus Rabbids (Nintendo published, so 2nd party) added to that list of greats, so thay makes the number 10 for me.

And even with that, I give honorable mention to Paper Mario Origami King (I really enjoyed this, but it could have been better) and Age of Calamity (Also really enjoyed, but not quite a great).

Keep in mind that all of this 2nd party talk is based under the definition of a 2nd party being a 3rd party, that is working with a console maker to produce and exclusive game with the console maker themselves publishing it.

I was counting second parties the same way; for me Luigi's Mansion 3, developed by Next Level before their purchase by Nintendo, for example, is a good game but not quite great, same for Yoshi's Crafted World. (By Good Feel)



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curl-6 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

I have no idea what a third of your Wii list is supposed to be, but I'm glad you haven't come with 5 different Wii Party titles to make it

On Switch side we got Three Houses, Animal Crossing NH, Ring Fit Adventure, Luigi's Mansion 3 that makes 8 and only in only 4 years, Switch has at least more 5 or 6 first/second party games coming that will absolutely make the list. Potential (among confirmed titles) are Bayonetta, Metroid, Splatoon 3 and BOTW sequel 

(and you forgot Majora's Mask for M64)

Luigi's Mansion 3 is a good game, as is Yoshi's Crafted World, I was just counting the great (or close to great) ones.

I do expect Splatoon 3 and BOTW's sequel to make the list as well, but personally I've given up hope on Bayonetta 3 or Metroid Prime 4 ever seeing the light of day.

Mario Maker 2?



javi741 said:
curl-6 said:

Luigi's Mansion 3 is a good game, as is Yoshi's Crafted World, I was just counting the great (or close to great) ones.

I do expect Splatoon 3 and BOTW's sequel to make the list as well, but personally I've given up hope on Bayonetta 3 or Metroid Prime 4 ever seeing the light of day.

Mario Maker 2?

Games focused on user generated content don't really feel worth it to me and while it did have a single player component which I watched my little brother play through, it felt more like a series of tutorials.

That said, I'd love a new AAA 2D Mario on Switch.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 06 March 2021

This trailer still brings a tear to my eye. Probably the most epic game trailer I've seen.



Shiken said:
curl-6 said:

Torna was designed as an expansion and it remained one; it is not its own game, and remakes are not new games either.

I stand by most of Switch's best first party content being recycled Wii U ports, and its actual exclusive lineup being subpar by Nintendo standards.

It's a Nintendo system so that's what I'll compare it against, and when set next to their other stronger efforts it falls short thus far.

Again though, it's a long way from done hopefully so by the end of its life it may have surpassed them all, but this is why I give it an 8/10 and not a 10/10 at this date.

If Torna is not a stand alone prequel game, what can I walk into walmart and buy a physical copy, and play it without the need of to own or play Xenoblade 2?

DLC is content added to a game, Torna is its own game with its own 30-40 hour length.

Your Link's Awakening logic is fine as long as you look at Miles Morales and Demon Souls as DLC and a remaster as well.  (you probably do though, which is fine).

Your preference of WiiU ports is your opinion.  I enjoyed the new content more and I did not even have a WiiU for games outside of the Zelda ports, so we will have to agree to disagree here.  You have every right to that stance, it is the people who never even owned a WiiU or Switch saying it that comes off as reaching downplay.

You 100%ed Torna in 30 hours? That's way too long, I'd say. 



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

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curl-6 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

Third parties are mostly multiplat nowadays, we can't really espect them to release as many exclusives as way back in time. The only way to have a door comparison is comparing first parties and second parties 

The last Nintendo console with as many good first and second party games as Switch was SNES

Unless maybe you are thinking on Game Cube, I never had one, so I have no opinion about it. But Switch stomps N64, Wii and Wii U very easily 

I would actually put Wii and N64 well ahead of Switch-to-date in term of high quality 1st and 2nd party games.

I mean, if I were to list the great-or-close-to-great ones I'd go:

Wii: Mario Galaxy 1 & 2, Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, Metroid Prime 3, Xenoblade, DKCR, Mario Kart Wii, Sin & Punishment 2, The Last Story. (10)

N64: Mario 64, Banjo Kazooie + Tooie, F Zero X, Ocarina of Time, Starfox 64. (6)

Switch: BOTW, Mario Odyssey, Splatoon 2, Xenoblade 2. (4)

Wow, that's not a good look for Switch, if you ask me. BotW is certainly a contender for the best game on the system... But it's also a Wii U game, and probably one at heart, too. Odyssey is okeish, Splatoon 2 is nothing out of this world and Xenoblade 2 is quite the bad game. Really, I'd say Three Houses is the better title compared to those three, even if it also has its red flags, but its massive scope really puts it on another level entirely. Probably Luigi's Mansion 3, too, thanks in great part to those gorgeous visuals, but I didn't finish it nor did like it. 



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

Metallox said:
Shiken said:

If Torna is not a stand alone prequel game, what can I walk into walmart and buy a physical copy, and play it without the need of to own or play Xenoblade 2?

DLC is content added to a game, Torna is its own game with its own 30-40 hour length.

Your Link's Awakening logic is fine as long as you look at Miles Morales and Demon Souls as DLC and a remaster as well.  (you probably do though, which is fine).

Your preference of WiiU ports is your opinion.  I enjoyed the new content more and I did not even have a WiiU for games outside of the Zelda ports, so we will have to agree to disagree here.  You have every right to that stance, it is the people who never even owned a WiiU or Switch saying it that comes off as reaching downplay.

You 100%ed Torna in 30 hours? That's way too long, I'd say. 

Too long in what way?  If you think 30 hours is a long game, I assume you must not play JRPGs in general.

But if you mean to say that you think I spent too much time in the game...

https://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=60782

As you can see it lines up with what is expected from Torna.  Hell the main story alone clocks in at 17 hours if you ignore as much side content as possible.



Nintendo Switch Friend Code: SW-5643-2927-1984

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curl-6 said:
Mnementh said:

You should say: quality first party games you like. Because you left out a lot of actual quality 1st party games, like Animal Crossing, Super Smash Bros, Fire Emblem, Luigis Mansion. That is the thing, Switch doesn't have a weak first party library compared to previous gens. It may not have the games you desire though. But the games actually released sell millions each, so I guess these are games a lot of people enjoy.

Games I like and games I consider quality are one and the same. Quality is a subjective perception. And sales are a non-factor in what constitutes quality to me. 

I would disagree here. Now, quality is a very broad term. And I would consider a thing possibly having multiple qualities. And yes, some of these are more subjective. But many qualities are objective, and this is also true if you reduce it to games. So it is one quality, how much the game is freed of bugs and glitches. You can easily say that you like a game, but it has shitty quality in this regard. The original UFO: Enemy Unknown is one of my most beloved games, but the original version had quite some serious bugs to the point that it just could crash in some sequences. I think many like Skyrim and still see it as a glitchfest. Or you could consider the amount of interesting content. In this regard you just have to look at Smash Ultimate and marvel at the amount of fun content, even if you not into fighters or Smash in particular.

Another thing is: if you say these lists you made are completely subjective, then they are completely pointless. Because the count of games will differ wildly based on personal preferences in genre. But I think such list of great games for each platform still can be made, if you consider more objective criteria. Sales are actually an important factor, because they may not be a measurement of quality for you, but big sales actually mean that for many people the value of the game exceeded it's price. So sales are a very indirect measurement of the perception of quality for bigger amounts of people. I just have to accept that I am not the only person deciding which games are great. If Mario Party sells big numbers, even if I don't like it, I have to accept that it offers great value for many other people. So I have to take a step back and accept that maybe this game is overall a good game, even if I don't like it.



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curl-6 said:
Mnementh said:

You should say: quality first party games you like. Because you left out a lot of actual quality 1st party games, like Animal Crossing, Super Smash Bros, Fire Emblem, Luigis Mansion. That is the thing, Switch doesn't have a weak first party library compared to previous gens. It may not have the games you desire though. But the games actually released sell millions each, so I guess these are games a lot of people enjoy.

Games I like and games I consider quality are one and the same. Quality is a subjective perception. And sales are a non-factor in what constitutes quality to me. 

Quality is actually objective.  Gameplay preference is completely subjective however.  I will use myself as an example...

I absolutely despise Red Dead Redemption 2 and feel it ia heavily overrated.  However I would not say it isn't a quality product.  The game is oozing of quality for those that like it.

I also think TLoU2 is a very average game with an average story that plays well enough, but fails to keep me hooked for much more than half the game.  That does not change the fact that it is a quality product.

On the flip side, I loved Orphan Scion of Sorcery as a kid.  Even back then, I knew the game was trash.  But something compalled me to beat it multiple times.

More recently, on PS3 there is a JRPG called Cross Edge.  That game has so many problems with it, that it could be called anything BUT quality.  I however really enjoyed it because it also had aspects that I liked.  In no way would I call it a quality game compared to other big JRPGs.

It is completely possible to recognize what is quality and what isn't, even when it does bot line up with your gameplay preference.  By definition, quality is indeed objective in every sense.

I will agree however that sales are not a measure of quality either.  For example Cyberpunk, while a great game in of itself, WAS NOT a quality product at launch...or even now.  Yet it sold millions on hype.

On the flip side, games from your own like like the Msteoid Prime games did not blow up sales at all, but they are indeed quality games.



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Quality is only objective if you only use objective metrics to measure it like the number of bugs, stable framerates, polished graphics and textures, good resolution, good controls and camera, good sound editing, good physics, good voice acting, quality of life additions, etc. There is an overall agreement and common sense about those. I've never met anybody saying that likes to play a game with unstable framerates or clunky controls, so I see those metric as objective 

But when evaluating arts we also include subjective metrics: What makes a OST good, what make art direction good, what makes a story well written, what makes a good design character, what is good level and world design, what even a good gameplay supposed to be? Those as more subjective criteria, there is no proper answer for any of that

That's make quality of games indeed subjective