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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Germany lifts ban on Nazi Symbols in Video Games

Peh on 10 August 2018
Aeolus451 said:
Peh said:

Again, because you obviously don't get it. The reason was NOT to forbid nazi symbols in video games in order to censor their own history. That assertion you've made is stupid and nonsensical. 

People on this thread including myself already explained it. Do something about your ignorance and educate yourself.

I'll explain this so any slow person can get it. It doesn't matter their reasoning, the end result was the censorship of a part of their history. Just to further clarify, I didn't say they banned it in order to hide or censor their history but that was the result of it. Now can you go fuck off with this stupid shit? In case you didn't get what I meant, fuck off with this stupid shit.

Nope, try again. This time with more vulgar wording. 



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Mr Puggsly on 10 August 2018
Errorist76 said:
I’m shocked by the ignorance some people show in this thread. As if the reason for the banning of Nazi symbolics was a way to hide from the past. The opposite is the case.

Actually I agree with the people you call ignorant. I can't help but think the German government thinks if people saw the Nazi symbol it would somehow cause a resurgence of Nazis, why else would you hide it? Germany also limits violence in games so clearly they fear their people simply can't handle the same content most of the world gets to see.

At the very least Germany should have had a distinction of using Nazis in a game and glorifying Nazis. But its evident the people creating these laws thought very little of its people.



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Mnementh on 10 August 2018
Mr Puggsly said:
Errorist76 said:
I’m shocked by the ignorance some people show in this thread. As if the reason for the banning of Nazi symbolics was a way to hide from the past. The opposite is the case.

Actually I agree with the people you call ignorant. I can't help but think the German government thinks if people saw the Nazi symbol it would somehow cause a resurgence of Nazis, why else would you hide it? Germany also limits violence in games so clearly they fear their people simply can't handle the same content most of the world gets to see.

At the very least Germany should have had a distinction of using Nazis in a game and glorifying Nazis. But its evident the people creating these laws thought very little of its people.

The laws in germany make a distinction if using Nazis in a glorifying or damning way. And with the news in the OP no law was changed. Only a regulatory body decided to change it's rules. Publishers could release games with Nazi crosses in it. They would've probably faced a long court case, but most spectators already agreed the exceptions for movies and books and other material is applyable to games too. It's just: no publisher wanted to take the risk and go first. So no, the laws are unchanged, nothing really changes, only a regulatory body takes the heat instead of a publisher.



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Mr Puggsly on 10 August 2018
Mnementh said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Actually I agree with the people you call ignorant. I can't help but think the German government thinks if people saw the Nazi symbol it would somehow cause a resurgence of Nazis, why else would you hide it? Germany also limits violence in games so clearly they fear their people simply can't handle the same content most of the world gets to see.

At the very least Germany should have had a distinction of using Nazis in a game and glorifying Nazis. But its evident the people creating these laws thought very little of its people.

The laws in germany make a distinction if using Nazis in a glorifying or damning way. And with the news in the OP no law was changed. Only a regulatory body decided to change it's rules. Publishers could release games with Nazi crosses in it. They would've probably faced a long court case, but most spectators already agreed the exceptions for movies and books and other material is applyable to games too. It's just: no publisher wanted to take the risk and go first. So no, the laws are unchanged, nothing really changes, only a regulatory body takes the heat instead of a publisher.

Well even if you have to worry about a legal battle over using Nazi imagery, that's a problem.

Either way, I imagine Germans do see the content banned in their media via YouTube and maybe acquiring contraband software. Less censorship the better in my opinion.



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Azzanation on 11 August 2018
captain carot said:
Azzanation said:
Stupid rule to begin with.

The rule has the simple reason to be against gloryfying/advertising Nazis. You're not allowed to show a hakenkreuz (swastika) or SS-rune tatoo for example, you're not allowed to paint a hakenkreuz on your car and so on.

Holocaust denial also is sanctioned in Germany.

There are exceptions for showing Nazi symbols for historical, educational, artistic and some other reasons of course. The problem tih games, acording to the 'Oberste Landes-Jugendschutzbehörden (basically federal youth protection authorities) was that they so far made a difference between passive and active media and until now had been under the opinion that Nazi symbols in games were a case for the courts. Thus, so far the OLJB had denied games with such symbols for USK ratings.

If any publisher had gone through a lawsuit we could have this 'ban' (which actually wasn't one) years ago.

Regardless of your reasoning behind it, humans shouldn't be baby sitted in anyway by hiding or lawfully forcing images, logos and icons away. If that's the faith the government has on its people than there afraid of there people and don't trust them. Its like calling everyone blood thirster murderers so they have to be tamed. Same goes with banning video games etc. We are humans not animals.

If anything the more you hide something the more you have people out there to find the truth or reasoning behind it which than causes underground clans and cults aka Neo Nazis.



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RespectDecena on 11 August 2018

Even if it's related to something good it seems things always end up with people trying to rip each other's anuses apart.



Barozi on 12 August 2018
Aeolus451 said:
Peh said:

If germany would censor their history, you wouldn't find nazi symbols in movies, textbook, documentation, museums and so on. The only exception here are video games. Why? Because they are / were not considered to be a form of art. Cencoring history has absolulety nothing to do with it. It might help reading the criminal code 86a for further education.

 

Nevertheless, your original statement is purely ignorant regarding the topic and nonsensical in using excuses.

 

I wasn't saying they were censoring their entire history, Sherlock. I only said that they shouldn't censor their history (as in any part of it) because it's history. Banning symbolism or the showing of something in a medium is a form of censorship regardless of the reasoning. I can't believe they banned it for that reason because it's so fucking stupid. Nazis are always portrayed as villians in games. A politician would have to be incredibly ignorant of video games to use that as an excuse. 

My post was fine. It was meant as a one time post as "I agree with lifting the ban because history should be preserved". That's it. If you want to argue over stupid shit, have at it with someone else. I don't care what you think of my post.

That's just not true. There exist lots of games where the nazis are the heroes. Most of them from the 80s and 90s.



captain carot on 12 August 2018
CaptainExplosion said:
Good move, provided it doesn't lead to Neo-Nazis rising up in Germany. Those scum aren't welcome anywhere.

Though i personally dislike the AfD as the most right wing party in our parliament, actual Neo-Nazis wont be a bigger issue with this. And i'm more concerned about American Nazis right now, to be honest.

As for games (other media) and actual censorship in Germany:

Except child porn and maybe snuff, there isn't much if anything you're not allowed to own. Now, it should be obvious why you're not allowed to own crap like that. So, what do we actually have in terms of bans?

Beschlagnahme (Impoundment): You're not allowed to sell media of any kind that is 'beschlagnahmt' or impounded. You're still allowed to own media that is impounded though. For some strange reason you can import it by yourself but it's not (yet) allowed to buy such stuff online. Every 'Beschlagnahme' is decided by a judge, with some courts having been very impoundment-friendly until the mid-2000's. The main reason here usually is extreme violence, usually it's stuff that's considered inhuman (menschenverachtend)

Indizierung (indexing): Done by the BPjM, indexing is only done with media that doesn't have a German rating. Everything on the BPjM index can still be sold from 'under the counter' but may not be openly advertised. It rarely happens anymore today but was pretty common until the mid-2000's as well.

 

Now, over time some games got impounded for showing Nazi symbols, including various older Wolfensteins. Others being quite digusting stuff like KZ-Manager. That one deinitely was also inhuman, though. From games not being recognised as art in the nineties to not having clear legal regulations there were various reasons over the years. It's important to note though that none of these games had been rated and no publisher wanted to go through a lawsuit.

 

On the other hand, from a German point of view it's totally ridiculous to censor things like nudity or rate media because of nudity. It's just nudity.

Sex also isn't that terrible that you'd need to cut movies for the little nothing they show...



Jon-Erich on 12 August 2018
Errorist76 said:
Kerotan said:
About time. You can't keep hiding from history forever.

Bit ignorant to call it that, but great news nonetheless

True, though I would argue that ends up being the unintended consequence.



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Vinther1991 on 12 August 2018

Hope it's soon time to get rid of that stupid law completely. Where's the ban on Marxist imagery or any other political imagery?