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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Germany lifts ban on Nazi Symbols in Video Games

nidavellir said:
Peh said:

 

Is there a history class in schools where you live? Germany was never hiding from from what happened in the past. Saying otherwise is an insult and shows how ignorant you are on the topic. 

Sorry if my words were misunderstood, english is not my native language. I'm french, so of course I've learn about post-WWII history in Europe. When I said confront, I meant they could now accept that this symbol is not something that cannot be shown in any way, but that it can be used for criticism of the ideology it represents, among others...

As captain carrot alread explained in his last post the symbol always could be used for criticizing or educating on the matter in other media. Only video games were judged differently as they were considered an active art form.

Therefore Nazi runes and symbols were never kept from the public, it was and is just made sure they won’t be used in a glorifying matter.



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Nogamez said:
COKTOE said:
I wonder if aesthetically accurate depictions of Hitler will ever be allowed?

They are allowed see downfall a german film

Yes, so is the swastika and iron cross, but will it be allowed in games?



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COKTOE said:
Nogamez said:

They are allowed see downfall a german film

Yes, so is the swastika and iron cross, but will it be allowed in games?

Yes, as long as it won't be used for the only purpose of glorifying nazism. 

So games like Wolfenstein will get a pass. Hopefully.



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Peh said:
Aeolus451 said:

The nazi symbol was a part of of their history and they were censoring it in games. Why are you arguing over this?

If germany would censor their history, you wouldn't find nazi symbols in movies, textbook, documentation, museums and so on. The only exception here are video games. Why? Because they are / were not considered to be a form of art. Cencoring history has absolulety nothing to do with it. It might help reading the criminal code 86a for further education.

 

Nevertheless, your original statement is purely ignorant regarding the topic and nonsensical in using excuses.

 

I wasn't saying they were censoring their entire history, Sherlock. I only said that they shouldn't censor their history (as in any part of it) because it's history. Banning symbolism or the showing of something in a medium is a form of censorship regardless of the reasoning. I can't believe they banned it for that reason because it's so fucking stupid. Nazis are always portrayed as villians in games. A politician would have to be incredibly ignorant of video games to use that as an excuse. 

My post was fine. It was meant as a one time post as "I agree with lifting the ban because history should be preserved". That's it. If you want to argue over stupid shit, have at it with someone else. I don't care what you think of my post.



Errorist76 said:
nidavellir said:

It's not ridiculous considering Germany history with that symbol... But I guess it's good they lifted the ban, it means they can confront their own history now in a way

It’s been censored so it can’t be used to advertise Nazi ideology. It’s been allowed for usage in artistic contexts so I assume they just redefined that video games indeed can be considered art, which is a great development.

Yes, this was it exactly. To be precise, there was never be a real ban, but USK and other bodies didn't do an evaluation and someone doing this faced the possibility of a court case. Which likely would've ruled this as freedom of art, but no publisher was eager tio try it out as first. Especially considering the news probably following that: XY Publisher tries to rule nazi cross as art...

It might be possible that still someone tries to get it into court now, but with a regulatory body like USK behind it that made a check, the judges probably will consider their tests.



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nidavellir said:
Peh said:

 

Is there a history class in schools where you live? Germany was never hiding from from what happened in the past. Saying otherwise is an insult and shows how ignorant you are on the topic. 

Sorry if my words were misunderstood, english is not my native language. I'm french, so of course I've learn about post-WWII history in Europe. When I said confront, I meant they could now accept that this symbol is not something that cannot be shown in any way, but that it can be used for criticism of the ideology it represents, among others...

It could be shown. We have many movies about WWII and the Nazis, it is no problem at all, if it wasn't glorified. But games fell into a regulatory hole. The BPjM back then in the 80s ruled Doom and Wolfenstein out to be on the safe side, and because it was violent in any case. Since then nobody really touched that, nobody wanted to touch that with a ten-foot-pole, so everybody removed the nazi-cross beforehand. It was spculated for years now, if anybody tried it would be ruled for the game in courts (again, as long as the symbols weren't used for glorification). But nobody wanted to take the risk in the first place.



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Aeolus451 said:
Peh said:

If germany would censor their history, you wouldn't find nazi symbols in movies, textbook, documentation, museums and so on. The only exception here are video games. Why? Because they are / were not considered to be a form of art. Cencoring history has absolulety nothing to do with it. It might help reading the criminal code 86a for further education.

 

Nevertheless, your original statement is purely ignorant regarding the topic and nonsensical in using excuses.

 

I wasn't saying they were censoring their entire history, Sherlock. I only said that they shouldn't censor their history (as in any part of it) because it's history. Banning symbolism or the showing of something in a medium is a form of censorship regardless of the reasoning. I can't believe they banned it for that reason because it's so fucking stupid. Nazis are always portrayed as villians in games. A politician would have to be incredibly ignorant of video games to use that as an excuse. 

My post was fine. It was meant as a one time post as "I agree with lifting the ban because history should be preserved". That's it. If you want to argue over stupid shit, have at it with someone else. I don't care what you think of my post.

Again, because you obviously don't get it. The reason was NOT to forbid nazi symbols in video games in order to censor their own history. That assertion you've made is stupid and nonsensical. 

People on this thread including myself already explained it. Do something about your ignorance and educate yourself.



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captain carot said:
Azzanation said:
Stupid rule to begin with.

The rule has the simple reason to be against gloryfying/advertising Nazis. You're not allowed to show a hakenkreuz (swastika) or SS-rune tatoo for example, you're not allowed to paint a hakenkreuz on your car and so on.

Holocaust denial also is sanctioned in Germany.

There are exceptions for showing Nazi symbols for historical, educational, artistic and some other reasons of course. The problem tih games, acording to the 'Oberste Landes-Jugendschutzbehörden (basically federal youth protection authorities) was that they so far made a difference between passive and active media and until now had been under the opinion that Nazi symbols in games were a case for the courts. Thus, so far the OLJB had denied games with such symbols for USK ratings.

If any publisher had gone through a lawsuit we could have this 'ban' (which actually wasn't one) years ago.

Thanks for the explanation.  There is a good chance a non-European wouldn't know the reasoning behind the ban.  The OP was being very childish about this so I started skipping his posts.  



Aeolus451 said:
Peh said:

If germany would censor their history, you wouldn't find nazi symbols in movies, textbook, documentation, museums and so on. The only exception here are video games. Why? Because they are / were not considered to be a form of art. Cencoring history has absolulety nothing to do with it. It might help reading the criminal code 86a for further education.

 

Nevertheless, your original statement is purely ignorant regarding the topic and nonsensical in using excuses.

 

I wasn't saying they were censoring their entire history, Sherlock. I only said that they shouldn't censor their history (as in any part of it) because it's history. Banning symbolism or the showing of something in a medium is a form of censorship regardless of the reasoning. I can't believe they banned it for that reason because it's so fucking stupid. Nazis are always portrayed as villians in games. A politician would have to be incredibly ignorant of video games to use that as an excuse. 

My post was fine. It was meant as a one time post as "I agree with lifting the ban because history should be preserved". That's it. If you want to argue over stupid shit, have at it with someone else. I don't care what you think of my post.

Politicians ignorant of videogames? Well, that must be a uniquely German phenomenon. Of course it is because of that exact reason. That's the only reason this exception for video games existed in the first place. It's the exact same as any other ignorant exception for video games in every country.



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pokoko said:
captain carot said:

The rule has the simple reason to be against gloryfying/advertising Nazis. You're not allowed to show a hakenkreuz (swastika) or SS-rune tatoo for example, you're not allowed to paint a hakenkreuz on your car and so on.

Holocaust denial also is sanctioned in Germany.

There are exceptions for showing Nazi symbols for historical, educational, artistic and some other reasons of course. The problem tih games, acording to the 'Oberste Landes-Jugendschutzbehörden (basically federal youth protection authorities) was that they so far made a difference between passive and active media and until now had been under the opinion that Nazi symbols in games were a case for the courts. Thus, so far the OLJB had denied games with such symbols for USK ratings.

If any publisher had gone through a lawsuit we could have this 'ban' (which actually wasn't one) years ago.

Thanks for the explanation.  There is a good chance a non-European wouldn't know the reasoning behind the ban.  The OP was being very childish about this so I started skipping his posts.  

Childish in what sense?



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