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Forums - Gaming - Yes, I support (some) AI use in gaming

IcaroRibeiro said:
Zkuq said:

I support AI in gaming too, without any limitations set in stone either - in theory. In practice, my main concern is how the training material for AI has been picked with little regard for ownership/copyrigh, and last I heard, that was still legally a grey area at best. As for quality, the end result will speak for itself (for better or worse). I suspect for many aspects, AI is perfectly adequate - like do I really care if some of the most widely used textures in a game, e.g. many ground textures, are created by humans? No, I don't think I do. I do think quality is still often an issue with AI, but in many (not all!) cases, it's also probably good enough that most of us will never pay attention to it unless going out of our way just to look for it.

As for jobs or art, I don't think AI is the issue. For all I care, AI can replace all the jobs, and it's up to the society to figure out how people are going to make a living and how they can be happy. If we think some kind of an AI tax is a good solution, I'm all for it. If it's something else, that's fine too. The same goes for art: the society should support the creation of art to the extend it's deemed valuable (and to be clear, I think it is valuable). If AI disrupts the society, the society should adapt. Regardless, if AI brings efficiency benefits (which is probably questionable in many fields), AI will come, or we will fall behind the likes of China, because the likes of China will adapt AI and they will find ways to keep the population happy enough. Adapt or survive is what we have to do, assuming AI doesn't turn out to be a bubble (which it still might).

This... doesn't match my experience at all. AI is definitely useful for programming but it's because of everything else it can do besides actual coding that it's useful for: figuring things out, explaining them, test automation... But for actual coding, it still does really stupid mistakes and tends to ignore existing coding conventions from the project. For things like games, stupid mistakes in particular might be something that are acceptable, but where I work, that's simply not acceptable. The code AI produces is also often overly verbose, which actually makes it harder to understand.

Also, as far as I know, AI has generally been trained with most code that's available, not just best, so it kind of tends to produce 'average' code. Of course that's still better than most developers seem to be capable of doing (at least based on my limited experience).

Regarding the training using all code (including shit code), that are metrics applied during the training phase to qualify what is the output of the model. Even if there is lots of trash code in training phase the learning algorithm will strongly punish low quality answers (in this case, shit code) and give good scores to high quality answers (high quality code)

I strongly recommend using the Premium version of Claude. It has ability to understand contextual project patterns and generate new code following the same principles, even if you need to explicitly tells it to follow the coding standards already present in the source code. The level of actual coding erros is minimal for almost everything outside front-end development strongly related to HTML rendering and user interaction (among other more niche and esoteric applications)

For automation, backend development, machine learning and anything strongly logic-based it's much more efficient, fast and produces much less bugs than humans 

I'm using Gemini 3 in my current project (mostly data engineering code) and it's absurd how you can quickly write shit code to teach Gemini what bussines logic you actually want and it will change your slop to bug-free production-ready code instantly. Team has being using it 5 months and the number of bugs related to actual coding were reduced to literal zero. Unit testing has been rendered completely useless, because the AI already cover edge cases and side effects

All bugs now are related to badly defined (or badly understood) bussines logic, or problems on input data. Really game changer 

We're working with a relatively large codebase, much of which could be called legacy and much of that legacy we're still building on because we still have a lot of other tech debt that's prioritized higher for fixing but still need to further develop the system, and AI is simply unreliable. It's not necessarily bad, but it can't understand the codebase the way humans can, so it makes dumb mistakes because of that, but from time to time it also makes dumb mistakes unrelated to that. I'm sure it would do better in a smaller project or a project that was built to higher standards from the ground up, but unfortunately it's not.

For what we're doing, the risk of any bugs resulting from poor AI code are simply such that basically everything the AI does needs to be reviewed, preferably carefully, lest we risk stupid mistakes getting through. It's slow work because of that, maybe still somewhat faster than doing it manually but reviewing so much code is not fun.

We're using paid versions of several models, I believe, and that includes Claude. I think the models available to us are top-notch, for what is available at the moment at least.

I'm glad it's working out for you, but for us, there's a long way to go still before AI can really be a game-changer. For us specifically, I feel like it's more like a minor convenience at best at the moment.



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Yeah, AI NPCs is one thing I'm looking forward to, if they're done properly - after all (and this is something that most people either forget or don't know), a lot of early RPGs from 80s (at least made in west) had text parsers that you could use to ask NPCs about all sorts of thing you can think of. Of course, those NPCs were dumb and scripted, so interaction with them was very limited.

"Holly Grail" of NPCs that you can talk to is not new and comes directly from TTRPGs were DM/GM represents world and NPCs in it. AI is ultimately tool to try to replicate that experience in video games. Of course, this will (hopefully) change how those games are developed, with VG RPGs becoming more akin to their tabletop cousins, with actual "smart" NPCs, instead of scripted quest dispensers with quest marks hovering over their heads. thus interacting with them becomes actual "social encounter" from TTRPGs, instead of "just give me the quest/info" thing of VG RPGs.



I don't know. If I wanted to have a real conversation I believe I would just talk to an actual person, lol. It's usually not what I'm after when I'm playing video games. So I'm not too excited about it. However, other people have other tastes and that's fine. So if AI leads to some new gaming experiences that people enjoy I'm all for it, even if I wouldn't play it myself.



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AI should only be used to do mundane and repetitive tasks



OdinHades said:

I don't know. If I wanted to have a real conversation I believe I would just talk to an actual person, lol. It's usually not what I'm after when I'm playing video games. So I'm not too excited about it. However, other people have other tastes and that's fine. So if AI leads to some new gaming experiences that people enjoy I'm all for it, even if I wouldn't play it myself.

It's not really about conversing with NPCs - ask yourself with how many people you actually converse in real life, versus with how many people you have brief chats to get some info.

Imagine classic "you enter the inn" scenario - in most modern RPGs you have NPCs who are sitting there and who have no other task but to be a backdrop. Then there is one or more that have some info, or quest. Compare that to TTRPG approach where you enter the inn and all NPCs are equal, at least in theory. It's up to you to dig up info you need, or in conversation with some to discover something new you didn't know - some of early CRPGs from 80s actually were like this, but with dumb NPCs, so it was not quite rewarding experience.

Now, I get that some people don't like whole "social interaction" pillar to be nothing more than quest/lore dumps and to get it over as quickly as possible and get on with action - but for folks who like that 3rd pillar to be as important as other 2 (combat and exploration), clever NPCs via AI are quite important addition (if done properly).



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DLSS, FSR and PSSR before that DLSS 5 shit were completely fine things.

The problem is not the IA, is how you use it.



Pemalite said:

No thanks. I like my experience to be curated and high quality.

Which isn't a criterium against AI. You can use AI and still curate the results and strive for high quality. Obviously - living i capitalism - most companies opt for low quality and cost reduction. With or without AI.

EDIT:

Let me elaborate on this. You can have high quality printing done with care. I recently purchased "The Ultimate Guide to Rebuilding Civilization" (not meant as advertisement, just an example), and this shows how high quality printing is indeed possible. But if we look at history, than for the most part the printing press lead to less high quality carefully made beatiful manuscripts, and lead to a lot of very low quality prints. This isn't a result of the abilities of printing technology. It is a result of societal incentive structure. Don't take this as a plea to return to pre-printing press technology, I just state things as they are.

Similarly you can still put the same amount of care into stuff, while using AI. I am a programmer, and if you use AI you can use it in a way that doesn't increase your code output, or not by much. But with the ability to explore more avenues, try more prototypes, solve more problems you can with proper care produce code in higher quality. But that said, if you want you can vibe code thousands of lines of code a day. Obviously nobody can check and quality control this much output. But you can and people do, and as this output is much more than any human can do I expect that vibe code will overtake human produced code in a matter of months — if it hasn't already happened.

As an example how bad such badly curated code can be:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ2GZRV63TE

Stuff like this is funny. But to be real: for a lot of code it doesn't matter if it is bad. Some random website, simple tools for a company and so on. There is no real problem. While a programmer like me can laugh about stuff like Garry's list, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. And AI allows people that can't program and can't pay a coder to create something they need. Bad yes, but a bad thing is better than no thing often. So AI is empowering for non-coders. And people who care, can still create quality. The incentives of our society again are in the way. If programmers get paid to produce stuff, the incentive are on quick and cheap implementation, and AI improves these goals. So most commercial code will be soon be produced by or with help of AI with lower quality. But again, not a problem of the technology, a problem of society. 

EDIT 2:

About the amount of code produced, there are already quotes from famous programmers, that tackle this and were made, before AI made it possible to produce torrents of code.

“The code you write makes you a programmer. The code you delete makes you a good one. The code you don’t have to write makes you a great one.” – Mario Fusco

“Measuring programming progress by lines of code is like measuring aircraft building progress by weight.” – Bill Gates

“One of my most productive days was throwing away 1000 lines of code.” – Ken Thompson

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I said this about a year ago, but I’d be totally fine with AI being used to let us respond to NPCs however we want, and the NPC would dynamically generate a response back to us.

In a lot of RPGs, especially ones where your character is meant to be a self-insert, you’re usually given multiple dialogue options when talking to NPCs, but too many times those choices all feel basically the same. No matter what you pick, the response you get back from the NPC is usually more or less identical.

AI could actually make those interactions feel more dynamic and personal, instead of just giving the illusion of choice.



They could do similar stuff like that before "A.I." chatbots existed, as SvennoJ explained. And it didn't require plagiarism and a massive waste of resources far beyond any other consumer electronics.

"A.I." should at most only be used for scientific/medical research, and that's it. It shouldn't be Silicon Valley's favorite new toy to wreck everything and destroy jobs (like in art & voice performances, among countless others) in a last desperate attempt to make the line go up. I don't particularly care what the "A.I." apologists have to say on the matter.



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BraLoD said:

DLSS, FSR and PSSR before that DLSS 5 shit were completely fine things.

The problem is not the IA, is how you use it.

As of now they are still completely fine, AI upscaling is in general a good way to keep improving graphics, whilst games remain playable.

The problem with DLSS5 is that it fundamentally changes the source material. However if DLSS5 is optional, I don't really see the problem with it. Maybe some people prefer the look, the environments looked better and didn't fundamentally change all that much. In a FPS game without a lot of faces DLSS will probably still be a big improvement.



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