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Forums - Sales Discussion - April Circana (NPD) 2024 Thread + Predictions

Stellar Blade seems to be doing better than I thought.



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Phenomajp13 said:

@Norion What was your prediction last year?

I didn't make any for the last fiscal year but for calendar year 2023 it was about 14m so I was off but not by a big degree. Keep in mind that back in 2021 I said that in the worst case scenario the Switch will still reach 140m when some people were still saying its best case scenario would be lower than that so I've not been historically pessimistic for the Switch or anything like that. When you break it down my main point is that it would be very unusual for the Switch to not significantly decline in its final year before its successor comes out especially since it should release the first half of next year.



Norion said:

The first quarter being down massively is obviously a big deal since that means they'll have to make it up elsewhere to keep the overall decline small and with this year having nothing on the level of the Mario film and TOTK and the Switch 2 not being that far off indicates that every quarter should be down significantly with the only potential exception being Q4 since that one was relatively low last time. Though the Switch 2 will be fully known about by then which will work against this Q4. 

The only way Nintendo can potentially make it is with a big price cut, not just a standard one but cutting it by like a full 100 since a regular one would only have so much impact this late in its life and I highly doubt they'll do that. I brought up the goal since things are already looking bad for it and saying that a full 25% of the year being down massively won't have that much affect on the overall goal is ridiculous due to what I said in the last paragraph. There's nothing wrong with speculating over whether it'll make it this early since the circumstances of this fiscal year are already fairly well known and it's an interesting topic to think about.

I absolutely agree with you. The more notable drops of the Switch started after the summer last year, and are still here. Yes there were some months as december or january that were a little bit outliers with more steady drops, but outside of those generally Switch was between 20 and 40% drops, with peaking this month by a whopping 50% drop worlwide YOY. Yes you heard right. Also weekly numbers dropped in the last quarter of the last year to range between 180 and 200k just before the holiday boost (from 200 to 250k in the first 8/9 months of the year) to 150 - 180k weekly range in the weeks till April, and dropped once again to a range of 130k to 160K for the month of April. You heard right! The very last week of April Switch made only 130k for the week. This is very big drop. Even I with not so optimistic projections as some people here, expected the drop to 130k at least in the second half of this year. This is big. Switch hadn't had so weak week since 2017, and even then there were only a few weeks around that number. Maybe the drop in number in the range 100 - 130k will come sooner than I expected. And yes, as @Phenomajp13 said, this is only 1 month, however I just wrote, the drops continue to be here, and in the past 9 months they have become bigger and bigger (if we exclude the holidays of course, well there were decent drops there as well for a holidays, but we are talking standart non holidays weeks here) and I honestly don't think the sales will go back to let's say 200k weekly unless Nintendo really steps up massively, and put some new big software titles (yes, titles, at least a few not only 1) and of course pricecut, as you @Norion said, 100$. At this point even delaying the Switch 2 won't save the sales so much. And this is not even a quarter I am explaining here, it's a period of 9 months, or 7 if you will without the holidays (although the drops for the holidays were there too, let's not forget November). I am only not sure about if the drops will continue, or Switch can hold on let's say till the end of the year, with weekly number in the 130-160k range, cuz if it can, that it is still good. This is still decent numbers for so old console, and the chances of 155-160M are maybe still there. But I really doubt that with showing week of 130K in as early as April, and weeks of 150-160K before that, that Switch can hold on to those level of sales for the rest of the year, as I said, unless they do at least 100$ price cut which will help definitely. With that pricecut I can see Switch even going back to the 180-200k sales range for some time. I still expect around 10M for the year though. But if the next 2-3 month show range of 100-130K I am not sure if it can reach that number.

Last edited by XtremeBG - on 29 May 2024

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Norion said:
Phenomajp13 said:

@Norion What was your prediction last year?

I didn't make any for the last fiscal year but for calendar year 2023 it was about 14m so I was off but not by a big degree. Keep in mind that back in 2021 I said that in the worst case scenario the Switch will still reach 140m when some people were still saying its best case scenario would be lower than that so I've not been historically pessimistic for the Switch or anything like that. When you break it down my main point is that it would be very unusual for the Switch to not significantly decline in its final year before its successor comes out especially since it should release the first half of next year.

It certainly would be unusual, I was personally thinking 10 million this fiscal year but I think Nintendo certainly better analyst and a better idea on what's to come. Really nothing wrong with your post besides the consistent idea that you know what's to come (should release in the first half of next year is another assumption). I don't think you are pessimistic at all unlike another poster here that was the real reason for my initial post lol. 



Phenomajp13 said:
Norion said:

I didn't make any for the last fiscal year but for calendar year 2023 it was about 14m so I was off but not by a big degree. Keep in mind that back in 2021 I said that in the worst case scenario the Switch will still reach 140m when some people were still saying its best case scenario would be lower than that so I've not been historically pessimistic for the Switch or anything like that. When you break it down my main point is that it would be very unusual for the Switch to not significantly decline in its final year before its successor comes out especially since it should release the first half of next year.

It certainly would be unusual, I was personally thinking 10 million this fiscal year but I think Nintendo certainly better analyst and a better idea on what's to come. Really nothing wrong with your post besides the consistent idea that you know what's to come (should release in the first half of next year is another assumption). I don't think you are pessimistic at all unlike another poster here that was the real reason for my initial post lol. 

I mean Sony missed their last PS5 forecast by quite a bit so the analysts at these companies are not infallible. I don't fully know what's to come of course but when looking at the trends you get a good idea of what's gonna happen. It's clear there's gonna be no games on the level of TOTK this year for example since all the huge stuff will be developed for the Switch 2 at this point and it's a fair assumption since the highly reported on rumour was it originally being intended for late this year and a delay that big would be surprising.



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Norion said:
Phenomajp13 said:

It certainly would be unusual, I was personally thinking 10 million this fiscal year but I think Nintendo certainly better analyst and a better idea on what's to come. Really nothing wrong with your post besides the consistent idea that you know what's to come (should release in the first half of next year is another assumption). I don't think you are pessimistic at all unlike another poster here that was the real reason for my initial post lol. 

I mean Sony missed their last PS5 forecast by quite a bit so the analysts at these companies are not infallible. I don't fully know what's to come of course but when looking at the trends you get a good idea of what's gonna happen. It's clear there's gonna be no games on the level of TOTK this year for example since all the huge stuff will be developed for the Switch 2 at this point and it's a fair assumption since the highly reported on rumour was it originally being intended for late this year and a delay that big would be surprising.

There is definitely a good chance they will miss their target but I would say let’s wait until next month’s Direct because they wouldn’t make that forecast if they didn’t have a reason to think it was possible.

They had to know April/May would be down by a lot considering Mario Movie+TotK released last year and this year has Endless Ocean+Paper Mario. They have to have something significant coming or else the forecast makes no sense.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Fair enough for the first part and if Nintendo believes that then they're in for a reality check since everything is pointing towards Q2 and Q3 being down as well. The Switch was down compared to last January-March so it's completely expected for it to also be down for the 2nd half of this year when it's gonna be down for the entire first half. For Q4 the Switch 2 will be announced by then and should have a release date with its launch games having been shown off which points to Q4 being down too.

Another model would help but would only do much this late in its life since it wouldn't be one like a Switch Pro and in terms of software it's clear that this year won't compare to last year having both TOTK and Mario Wonder. The Switch 2 is coming out next year and was rumoured to be originally intended for late this year so it's not jumping the gun when they've clearly mostly moved on from the Switch with how many remasters and remakes it's getting this year as a way to fill time while the huge stuff is being saved for the successor. 

I had the audacity to say that cause that is how insanely ambitious the goal of only being down 14% this fiscal year is. I've pointed out various reasons why that is an unreasonable target and saying we don't know the full details of July-March isn't a good counterargument since it's not difficult to notice trends like the ones I've mentioned.

That would be a good lineup but considering that Pokemon Legends Z-A is probably gonna be a cross-gen game that one won't help out the Switch much and by November the Switch 2 will either be announced or close enough to launching that information about it will be spreading far and depressing hardware sales since many people would prefer waiting a bit longer. This point is particularly noteworthy since the majority of Switch sales are the OLED model and it's clear a lot of those are being sold to existing owners based on the slowing growth of the annual userbase and people are gonna be way less likely to spend a few hundred on an upgrade when they can just wait a bit and get a way bigger upgrade.

Shtinamin_ said:

I think that most of the talk about the FY goals was earlier this month. I at least already have expectations for how they will reach their goal.

  • Price cuts (like you said $100), I agree with that. Switch $199, Switch Lite $99, Switch OLED $249
  • Bundles with top 5 best selling franchises (not including Pokémon). Mario Kart 8 Deluxe with Booster Course Pass, Tears of the Kingdom (or Breath of the Wild), Super Mario Bros Wonder (or Super Mario Odyssey), Animal Crossing, Splatoon 3 with DLC.
  • New solid in-house game releases each month
  • Remakes

Either way the FY hardware goal is still very reachable.

April (not including Rest of the World)522,448
FY Hardware goal13.5M
Total need to reach (total needed to sell/ship each month)12.98M (1.08M)

The issue is that it would be very strange for them to suddenly do a huge price cut like that when they've gone 7 years without doing any and even released a more expensive model that has the same level of power. With the Switch on its way out a few million extra sales for it but a big reduction in revenue doesn't seem like a good trade. I can see them cutting the price after the successor comes out though so they have a low cost option for a while.

The Successor will be announced throughout this FY, through tweets, quick Nintendo mini directs (like how they showcased the Mario Movie) and more. So yes we will have a solid understanding of the Successor.

There is nothing that hints at Legends Z-A being a cross-gen (as in launch cross-gen). It will still be playable on the Successor given the rumored backwards compatibility. But all signs point to a 3D Mario launch. Hence no need for launch cross-gens, like what most people say on here for Metroid Prime 4, or Legends Z-A. Those two maybe be playable immediately on the Successor but it'll be through the Switch cartridge/software because they'll be released earlier than the Successor. 

Personally, I would love to see the Successor launch in the Spring, but considering that the FY only had Switch I can only assume the Successor must launch after March 31, 2025. And the latest being the 3rd week of November 2025. Earlier is better considering it could be difficult to find, and it help bring positive advertising through word of mouth to many for the holiday season.

Giving what you said some thought, and I agree maybe they won't do a full $100 price cut immediately, but I can see them announcing a Summer Sale $50 off all Switch units (NS: $249, NSL: $149, NSOLED: $299) and release a Summer bundle of 2-3 games for same price as the console used to be (NS: $299, NSL: $199, NSOLED: $349). Then continue to announce the Summer Sale but rebrand it as the Fall and Holiday Sale, each with 2-3 different bundles. Then after Dec 31, 2024 they announce another $50 off. Leading to the $100 off price cut, and multiple bundles. 

Either way there will for sure be a price cut once the Successor comes out, that way the Switch won't be "competing" at its price level.

I talk about the price cuts because it doesn't make much sense on why their revenue goal is so low. Which is why price cut, and bundles make sense.



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.

According to Sony ps5 Is the most profitable generation for Playstation history doesn't make sense but someone needs to make a thread cause all I been hearing is how they closing companies and not doing well.



zeldaring said:

According to Sony ps5 Is the most profitable generation for Playstation history doesn't make sense but someone needs to make a thread cause all I been hearing is how they closing companies and not doing well.

It is true that PS5 makes a bigger currency amount in profit, but operating margins are under pressure. This is caused by that they make a lot more revenue thanks to the physical -> Digital. This strong revenue growth does not seem to translate in equal ways to profit growth.

Also just like with Nintendo the USD/EUR -> Yen conversion rates are doing them favors the past couple of years. Arguably with PS more, because a larger portion of their business is outside Japan.



Nintendo is always revising their HW forecasts, so no reason to latch on to their 2024 prediction as market gospel or an indicative of their future strategy.