First of all, Switch is not challenging PS or XBOX directly since they are different type of machines with different audience (of course there are overlap sales but for the most part they are different). It may challenge the total sales numbers which is 175M in the future if it get's there. At this time it's not even challenging it since it's 30M+ above. It can challenge them if it gets close to the number and there is big chances to reach it or pass it. We are still far from it. Second many other people are doubting Switch reaching and beating 160M, not just me, so don't put it like I am alone vs the world, why you did not quote all the other predictions that are around PS2 and are not confirming 160M+ ? Why you have problem only with me but no anyone else predicting no 100% surety of Switch passing PS2 ? And no I was not offended, I can't be offended by some sales of consoles or some posts on a website from people I don't know. Neither the topic nor a discussion whatsoever about this can offend me, cuz it's not related to my life. I am not getting it to my heart, opposite to you as we can all see, since you jump from the smallest sentence everyone write something other than praise for the Switch.

Learn the meaning of console warrior too, it seems you don't know it. I am not cherry picking, I told you numerous times, it's @javi741 's post first that quoted PS and XBOX, not me, I just answered on the same example. I also gave an example with the 7th gen, because the handheld console market was at it's peak back then, and so it was bigger than what is now. Which is a fact. This is not cherry picking it's the obvious. It's not nonsense, it's the real thing. And I am putting it this way in no correlation to the Switch, but to answer @javi741 's post, and give another point of view, that if we compare handheld market as a whole it has seen more hardware sales before therefore it's not mind blowing, for the handheld market in general. This was simply my claim. Of course as a single console for the Switch, reaching even 120-140M is mind blowing, since only 2 consoles have done, that, let alone reaching 150-160M. I already wrote that even before you started posting. No one is denying that. I simply make a statement about the handheld market in general. What is your problem here ? I even didn't touch on the Switch itself. My post was not pointed directly to the Switch. You turn it in a way it was.

Me always knowing Switch has the handheld market for itself does not mean I can't doubt how much it will sell or make predictions, as anyone can. You can't make predictions simply on one fact, There are many many factors, when you make estimation on a given system how well it will sell or it won't sell. Given the factors over the years everyone can make and adjust their predictions based on what is happening with these factors. I will tell it again, Many people doubted Switch reaching 100M, 120M, 150M, PS2 numbers, why won't you get in debate with them about that specifically but you get in debate with me about it and put it like I am the only one in the world, doubting if Switch will pass PS2 or not ?

Also I am not giving up on anything. This is not a fight that you can give up or win, this is not losing or winning, are we in boxing or what ? Again, you are taking this whole thing as a personal target or personal hobby, I can't really understand, It's simply opinions on people you don't know, written in a gaming forum. Why it's bothering you so much ? And if it's losing or winning, then almost all of the people here must be losing the fight since the number Switch will finish when it's discontinued will probably be different than almost all predictions made here over the years, and since almost everyone changing and adjusting their estimates overtime, they are all losing the fight ? And no, if Switch ends up beating PS2 it won't be nightmare for me, since I don't care so much for it, to put energy or feelings into this, as you do. It is simply an opinion and prediction, made back when the delay of the Switch 2 wasn't there, and everyone expected Switch successor at 2024 at the latest, and there were even people expected it in 2023. Which as we can see would be more than sure to happen since, now without successor in late 2024 Switch is still at 18M below the 160M let alone if the successor launched this year or last year. So you can't blame me for nothing.

On the topic itself, Switch is still more than 15M+ away from 160M, and you being so sure about thing that didn't happen and it's very depending on what company that you don't have finger in, will do, is not speaking well for yourself. I recall the post I made and I stand for it. The PS5 pro price, is not connected directly to Switch sales. But you of course didn't get the idea. Other companies putting higher prices on their consoles, and not doing price cuts on their current models is meaning Nintendo is less likely to put lower price on Switch's successor (which will result in better sales for Switch 1). Them not competing directly does not mean there are no sales that overlap or can be switch from one to the other, and Nintendo needs to be somewhat competitive with the rest of the gaming market (Sony and Microsoft). I've always said that if the one system didn't exist, the sales on the other would have been higher. The difference may not be mind-blowing but it would still be there. They are not competing in the handheld market, that's why they are not direct competitors. But they compete in the gaming market. In the gaming market, includes the handheld console market too. So illustrate it for yourself like this, (just giving example with random numbers, not related to the real portion of how much are in what market) if 20 people are in the gaming market, 10 of them are in handheld and 10 in the home console one. In the 10 people in handheld market there are no PS and XBOX since handhelds are purely Nintendo's since 2017. So for this handheld market to remain at it's 10 people and not become let's say 5 people vs 15 for the home market, Nintendo needs to be somewhat competitive (showing good system, support, games, marketing, prices and etc.). Sony and Microsoft on the other side need the same too, so that the home market can stay to at least the same 10 people. (So far their sales are equal with the previous gen, in this generation, but it's questionable if they can maintain that level to the end of the gen). If Nintendo for example launch Switch 2, and this system ends let's say at mediocre level of sales (in comparison to Switch 1) let's say 50M or 70M the handheld part would become 5 people in our example and the home market would become 15 people, because those other 5 people that bought Switch 1 and didn't bought Switch 2, would went to the home market since they are not all happy with the Switch 2 and want to play games on other system. However Sony and Microsoft still wouldn't be direct competitors to Nintendo since the handheld market of 5 people would still be 100% Nintendo's, since they are the only ones making handhelds. (yes hybrid system, but it covers the handheld market too, opposite to PS and XBOX). But the will still be competitiors in the gaming market since Nintendo would have 5 people and Sony and Microsoft 15. Did you get the idea now ? Not direct competitors in the handheld market, but competitors in the gaming market as a whole.

Yes, there maybe casual gamers, that stick to phones to play, which otherwise they would bought Switch for. I agree with that. However I talked about handheld console market in general, and the phones does not go in that category. The handheld console market is entirely for Nintendo now.

I used handheld generation from 15-20 years ago not to represent the handheld market today, but just to make the point, that it's not mind blowing (for the handheld market itself, not the Switch as a system) to reach 170M because it's already been there. My target was never to represent the handheld market today, just to answer to your post, that if you change the point of view, and look at it as a handheld market, we already have been so high, even higher (240M). That's all. And this has nothing to do with the Switch itself. It's the market in general. Of course the phones have takes sales from it, however this does not change the fact that 170M sales for handheld market today is not so mind blowing since we have already been at almost 240M in the handheld market before. It's mind blowing for a single system as is the Switch.

Yes the Switch has to deal with the smartphones market, but my point in the other post was that there is no direct competitor in the handheld console market, such as PSP for example was for the DS.

Steam decks???

So for all the "ima victim" nonsense in that post, I'll simply say that the others that agree with Switch not passing PS2 didn't make a downplaying post and don't let "Switch passing the PS2 or not" live rent free in their head. You were the one that brought the Switch into a PS5 Pro announcement thread where everyone else was discussing it while you decided to discuss how this positively effects Nintendo? Weird! Anywho, I'll drop it so you don't feel attacked anymore. I genuinely don't care who all doubted it, I'll be sure to take my victory lap of course when the time comes. You are smart enough to know I have receipts and know who all doubted it. I addressed you due to your downplay and obsession with Switch pulling it off or not. 

As for the last portion of your post, I actually agree with you but I think the console market is comprised of consumers for the brand/ip/franchise of all console games. For example, the console market is made up of Mario, GTA, CoD, Pokemon, Minecraft, Fortnite, so on, and so on all combined. Any amd all console games cpntribute to the market to varying degrees. There is a ton of overlap of course, such as the same individual can be a GTA and Pokemon fan. I do not believe in a home or handheld market that combines into the console market. I don't because it suggest that an individual if given the choice to consume Pokemon on a home console wouldn't for some reason. Pokemon is not a handheld game, we simply have never been given the choice. It's the reason why franchises like Monster Hunter can do big numbers on both home and handheld products. We are not fans of the product/console, we are fans of the franchise/ip. I'll digest the rest of your post later because I really want to read it, but I'm pretty sure it's pretty spot on.

y’all need to chill out. Why are we arguing over numbers we literally have no way of accurately predicting? Lol. You can speculate, but if Nintendo decides to be Nintendo (as they typically do), then all this speculation falls apart and the system either vastly over or underperforms your projection b/c “new variables”.

On the subject of the Switch reaching 170 units. Regardless of if people underplayed previous Switch Sales, and it's eternal performance in Japan, Switch sales have been dropping in recent years and globally they appear to have slowed a fair bit. Likewise the assumed price drop look likely that it won't happen due to the global economic conditions. Old technology and production costs aren't dropping in price like it did 10-20 years ago.

Also I don't see Nintendo doing a Sony and selling the Switch over the next generation cheaply to poor markets like Brazil like Sony did with the PS2. I agree that 160 million units is reachable, but challenging. I think 10-11 million units will be sold this year at least, hitting 150+ million and it will take two more years of support to hit 160+ million. Nintendo said they'd only support a console 3 years after the next gen is out if I recall so 160 million is a tough target and Nintendo aren't really known for continuing to back their old consoles with support of major games that aren't Pokemon. Perhaps a few more remakes (The remaining 3D Zelda's) can maintain momentum.

Claims about the size of the mobile market is a tad irrelevant. However you categorise the Switch, it's still $350 and the PSP and DS were a 3rd of the price in much better economic times and no mobile markets, social media or steaming for competition.

I don't think the Switch will have the twilight years of the Playstation 2, but it doesn't need them at this point to surpass it. Similarly, we need to remember that massively successful systems that have so much to offer new consumers don't just stop selling overnight, even if the big numbers are over. Look at the shipments of Playstation 2 vs the Switch:

At the end of year 8, the PS2 was coming off of a 13.7m year, and while I think Nintendo will miss its 13.5m projection for the equivalent year, the Switch will still be over 150m shipped by the end of March 2025, whereas the PS2 was at 131.6m aligned. But the PS2 remained incredibly steady for the next 3 years, amounting to over 21m more shipped during that time alone. So while I don't think that Switch shipments will remain that high for that long, another 10m for a system that is likely to stick around for a while as a cheaper alternative is quite doable. Even the 3DS shipped over 9m after the Switch released.

Looking pretty likely to me.

The only victim here is you, a victim of your own hatred, anger and obsession with all this. I don't have those kind of problems. As I said it's not connected to my personal life so it's not bothering me at all. You open the topic I am simply answering. And yes I brought the Nintendo into PS5, this was off topic, maybe I shouldn't. This is the only thing till now you are right about. My mistake for that off topic. I simply wanted to represent the current trend in the gaming industry of consoles, with getting a new baseline of prices going ahead, and my opinion on the matter. (Which includes all three companies, but still it was offtopic since the thread was about PS5).

This is your problem, that you don't care about all who doubted it, but you do for me specially, you just decided to have beef with me that's it. Again what victory ? are we in the boxing ? are you Muhamed Ali and I am Mike Tyson ? or vice versa ? You may have receipts but as you already told you don't care about all of the others, and since you do post only attackin me, you care only about me, so when the time comes you will attack with your receipts only me since you don't care about anyone else. You just have some beef with me in your head, that's it. My original post from which you started to write wasn't downplaying. If I wanted to downplay, trust me I have a lot of things I can say on the matter.

About the last thing, yes of course games are also big factor. That's why I said the games too when I listed some of the factors. You can simply put it in the example of the case where Switch 2 don't be so strong as Switch 1, and therefore don't show so good games of those franchises, or not show all of them in it's lifecycle. Of course we can be fans of all the games, and products as you said, however when you are low on budjet every month and year, or your parents can only afford one of three choices of console on the market, you have to choose only 1, and then for lot's of people the choice is between the three even though they don't compete directly as let's say xbox and PS. However for someone who wants straight handheld console on the go, Nintendo is the only way to go. And most time you have to do compromise and choose only the one system, and entertain yourself with only one portion of the games and franchises you like, since if you want to enjoy all you would have to have all the consoles, and you don't have money for all. Many of the buyers of the consoles are like this, on a budjet.

Remember on the previous debate how you apologized in the end because of you don't get my posts right and your anger and hatred blinding your judgment on the matter for the whole time ? this is prove that you have wrong assessment on topics when your console of choice is in the post. You have wrong understanding and assessment now as well. I will give you simple example. In the past when I've done Switch predictions lifetime or for particular year I go and explain why, exactly putting post for the Switch it self, and write down my points and why I think so. Now I haven't because since the start of this year, everyone awaits for the successor to be announced and it's launch of course for the year (as it was expected in the beginning by many, but later delayed and moved to next year), everyone awaits to see the price, the marketing, the games, and how will Nintendo approach it, and if they will do price cut for the Switch 1 too, since this year is the most likely for them to do all of these things, and heading into the next, to finally see where the things are going for the Switch, and Switch 2. Therefore it's not smart to make bold predictions or points in moments like this, because all of these variables will become known soon enough. So in other words, the times when I really go out and talked about the Switch and my bold opinions and predictions and points about it's sales, you missed, and you are coming late to the party when I did some Japan prediction in the last 1 year and to one post which I did, to just give opinion on the whole industry in general, and of course including Switch as well, since it's in there too and throwing me some obsessions and nightmares about Switch passing the PS2, (which I even admit a few times lately as fully possible since two updates from this year) that are really yours not mines, since I don't care and this does not make any change in my life. That's your movies here, not mines. Don't mistake other people with yourself.

And please don't dig later, dig now, are you tired ? You talked about fight, and you are giving up ? so early ? come on, fighter, come on mike tyson, your battery run out ? what happened ? You talked about victory, and you will do it by answering to my BIG post with only 1/4 of the size of it ? The next time when you are not ready to debate long and giving up just after a few posts, just don't start the debate and quote me, okay ?

PS2 was in a very different time. It launched late in many countries, those countries hit their peaks later too.

3DS had no direct successor, Switch was only an indirect successor.

Another example you could give is the PS4. It is a modern console like the 3DS, but it also had a direct successor, like the Switch will have. The PS4 also sold very well, much like the Switch. But the legs post successor launch were virtually nonexistent.

Basically I am saying Switch will have its own situation and won't be like any other console. After all, we are in unprecedented territory.

@XtremeBG This is going to be my last post on this subject, you can play victim all you want. YOU (not anyone else) made a downplaying post and I critized it. You obviously let this debate live rent free in your head proven by your obsession with bringing the Switch vs PS2 debate every opportunity you get, which you just admitted (PS5 Pro announcement thread). I didn't address all of your previous post because it was pure victim nonsense similar to this post. I was interested in a discussion about the last portion of your post because it wasn't about you being a victim of my so called attacks because I dared to speak to your oblivious cherrypicking/downplaying post.

As you can see Farsala is another poster that agrees with you (Switch not making it) but doesn't resort to downplaying post. Farsala doesn't spend all his or her time here thinking about this Switch vs PS2 debate. I have receipts on this poster similar to you. It means nothing more than you both made low balled predictions and have had to adjust. Sometimes those adjustments come with coping mechanisms due to bitterness of being wrong. It's normal Xtreme, people gets things wrong and pull excuses out their butt about why they were wrong. That's all you are going through right now, Switch doing the impossible is just a hard pill to swallow. I gotta say you are fun though, far more fun than Farsala.