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Forums - Politics Discussion - 'Heartbreaking' conditions in US migrant child camp

The wall will have to be built at some point, there is no doubt about it. Who knows, even Biden may have to be the one to do it.
Immigrants all around the world realized that governments today are very scared of taking any measure against illegal immigrants, especially if the government in power is right wing. So if you have the money to try to cross the border you will just do it. The same happens in Europe with people arriving in boats with the help of ONG's. They are not refugees, most of them are just people wanting to move for a better country.
You either ignore the problem and let everyone in, or build a wall, or change the laws. Of course, this do not cover all people arriving as tourists that never come back.
My take is that governments will just ignore the problem.



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Mr Puggsly said:
Machiavellian said:

Yes, the boarder situation which has gone up and down based on the document that I posted shows that this is a tread that has been happening for decades no matter the President.  Basically you just did what pretty much most of the same people you talk about do, they dismiss concrete information for opinion.  You care more about the look then the facts and it allow you to get on the old bandwagon.  You seem to wrap 2 separate issues into one.  The first issue is children left at the boarder and actual illegal entry. These 2 situations are not the same but they are wrapped in the same holy war because its convenient.

Where are your stats or document to show the increase in crime or is that to hard for you to muster.  I mean since you are so convinced I am sure you have the stats to prove it or is this just another opinion formed in your mind but with little in the way of documented facts to prove.  That is the state where we seem to be at where opinion is the guiding force which is easily manipulated.  Kept in fear, manipulated in believing lies, misinformation and propaganda.

The fact is that we are so intent on trying to stop people from coming here using something as inefficient as a wall instead of doing something more productive inside and outside of the US.  We already have a nice undocumented population who actually work.  Lets get them IDs so they can put their money into the system.  Lets provide work permits for people who want to work but do not want to stay.  Employers can list their needs and people who are already working those jobs can get IDs and contribute.  We really need to stop wasting a 3rd of our GDP on our military when that money could solve so much within the US.  Universal Healthcare alone would be the benefit.  In order to get actual real healthcare by having a job should not be the standard.  Republicans love to nix any Universal Healthcare and make it condition on a job but lose your Job for any length of time and find out just how beat-up that system is.  Find out real quick just how expensive it is for insurance if there was no ACA back in the day when Cobra was the only thing you could get.  Go through the process of trying to get medicaid when the only person you can get insured is your child.  Nothing hits home more than a pandemic and people find out the real cost of GOP policy, when you are out of work hoping for any assistance so you do not lose your house, car, or health.

Boy, I don't have to say much to get you going/shilling.

I feel like you're ignoring the administration caters to illegals. Unsurprisingly, its encouraging significantly more to come over.

I prefer you continue thinking border crime is stagnant. Who needs to accept reality?

I'm not opposed to all left leaning ideas, I'm opposed to the the dems current agenda of objectively lowering quality of life and pouring resources to places that don't help your average productive US citizen. Opposition to dems exists because many of their ideas have been failing in practice. Its no coincidence blue cities/states are doing worse on many metrics and encouraging people to leave.

Again, I'm genuinely not that interested in a debate. You'll get very general responses at best.

Again, what specific policy caters to illegals.  Its very easy to make up these type of opinion comments but I would really like to see the policy that shows this to be true.

I prefer you show me boarder crime is on the rise.  You keep making this claim but it seems when asked for the stats, well you seem to go somewhere else.  I understand when its pure opinion, stats are a hassle and get in the way.

So what particular policy that has lowered the quality of life that have come from the Dems.  I am more than willing to listen to as I am not a Dem nor do I believe everything from the each party is golden.  What I do like is when someone can bring concrete examples instead of just pure opinion to the table.  Lets take our example as blue cities and people leaving because of failed policy but then again why are the most federal dependent states, meaning the ones who have the most poverty and people on welfare are red states.  The thing is, you can always find some issue with any particular state and any particular policy from both parties.  The difference is that if you only just listen to one side, all you get is partisan rhetoric.

Again, if you do not want a debate then you probably should not share your opinion.  I am more than happy to have my opinion challenge and if I am wrong then I have learned something.  If you want to be the person who drop their opinion and peace out, then you probably should not reply to anyone challenging your opinion, that way you never have to worry about if what you believe is correct. 



Machiavellian said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Boy, I don't have to say much to get you going/shilling.

I feel like you're ignoring the administration caters to illegals. Unsurprisingly, its encouraging significantly more to come over.

I prefer you continue thinking border crime is stagnant. Who needs to accept reality?

I'm not opposed to all left leaning ideas, I'm opposed to the the dems current agenda of objectively lowering quality of life and pouring resources to places that don't help your average productive US citizen. Opposition to dems exists because many of their ideas have been failing in practice. Its no coincidence blue cities/states are doing worse on many metrics and encouraging people to leave.

Again, I'm genuinely not that interested in a debate. You'll get very general responses at best.

Again, what specific policy caters to illegals.  Its very easy to make up these type of opinion comments but I would really like to see the policy that shows this to be true.

I prefer you show me boarder crime is on the rise.  You keep making this claim but it seems when asked for the stats, well you seem to go somewhere else.  I understand when its pure opinion, stats are a hassle and get in the way.

So what particular policy that has lowered the quality of life that have come from the Dems.  I am more than willing to listen to as I am not a Dem nor do I believe everything from the each party is golden.  What I do like is when someone can bring concrete examples instead of just pure opinion to the table.  Lets take our example as blue cities and people leaving because of failed policy but then again why are the most federal dependent states, meaning the ones who have the most poverty and people on welfare are red states.  The thing is, you can always find some issue with any particular state and any particular policy from both parties.  The difference is that if you only just listen to one side, all you get is partisan rhetoric.

Again, if you do not want a debate then you probably should not share your opinion.  I am more than happy to have my opinion challenge and if I am wrong then I have learned something.  If you want to be the person who drop their opinion and peace out, then you probably should not reply to anyone challenging your opinion, that way you never have to worry about if what you believe is correct. 

So I was talking to a TSA guy, works at a major airport. Black guy, I know he likes Obama. And he was talking to me about how crazy it is at the moment because we (the country) are letting in so many illegals, hundreds at a time. The government pays to fly them (and their family) to wherever they are going. Essentially they will get a court hearing but can live in the countries potentially for years before that happens. Before they had to stay in their country. He said this situation is something Trump did right. I told him this is a good way to win elections in the future though, he was surprised because that made sense to him. He replied, "I didn't even consider the long term plan."

"So what particular policy that has lowered the quality of life that have come from the Dems." The sudden rise in cost of living and it will continue because their policies require it. That we can absolutely credit the current administration for. However, dems in a general are doing a great job lowering quality of life locally.

I just say enough to light a fire. Now again I will wait for your complaints about GOP and praising cheap/exploited labor.



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The solution is simple: Communism. A classless, stateless, moneyless society wouldn't have this inhumane problem. American elites are retched and have blood on their hands.



 

Mr Puggsly said:

So I was talking to a TSA guy, works at a major airport. Black guy, I know he likes Obama.

...is this satire?



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Mr Puggsly said:
Machiavellian said:

Again, what specific policy caters to illegals.  Its very easy to make up these type of opinion comments but I would really like to see the policy that shows this to be true.

I prefer you show me boarder crime is on the rise.  You keep making this claim but it seems when asked for the stats, well you seem to go somewhere else.  I understand when its pure opinion, stats are a hassle and get in the way.

So what particular policy that has lowered the quality of life that have come from the Dems.  I am more than willing to listen to as I am not a Dem nor do I believe everything from the each party is golden.  What I do like is when someone can bring concrete examples instead of just pure opinion to the table.  Lets take our example as blue cities and people leaving because of failed policy but then again why are the most federal dependent states, meaning the ones who have the most poverty and people on welfare are red states.  The thing is, you can always find some issue with any particular state and any particular policy from both parties.  The difference is that if you only just listen to one side, all you get is partisan rhetoric.

Again, if you do not want a debate then you probably should not share your opinion.  I am more than happy to have my opinion challenge and if I am wrong then I have learned something.  If you want to be the person who drop their opinion and peace out, then you probably should not reply to anyone challenging your opinion, that way you never have to worry about if what you believe is correct. 

So I was talking to a TSA guy, works at a major airport. Black guy, I know he likes Obama. And he was talking to me about how crazy it is at the moment because we (the country) are letting in so many illegals, hundreds at a time. The government pays to fly them (and their family) to wherever they are going. Essentially they will get a court hearing but can live in the countries potentially for years before that happens. Before they had to stay in their country. He said this situation is something Trump did right. I told him this is a good way to win elections in the future though, he was surprised because that made sense to him. He replied, "I didn't even consider the long term plan."

"So what particular policy that has lowered the quality of life that have come from the Dems." The sudden rise in cost of living and it will continue because their policies require it. That we can absolutely credit the current administration for. However, dems in a general are doing a great job lowering quality of life locally.

I just say enough to light a fire. Now again I will wait for your complaints about GOP and praising cheap/exploited labor.

I just want to make sure I understand correctly.  So with President Biden, there was a policy change where if you are an illegal immigrant who cross the boarder illegally, you are flown to any state you want and you can wait within the US for years until your court date.  You get to live your life like nothing happen and you are not detained within a holding facility (pretty much a prison).  I want to be sure I am getting your claim correctly because I do not want to put words in your mouth.  So you are saying that under Trump, those illegal immigrants were sent back to their country to wait for a court date is that correct.  

If that is correct, can you ask your black TSA friend what is the name of that policy that changed that under Biden because from my first hand knowledge I am going to have to call BS.

First and foremost, there is no change as far as illegal immigrants who get caught in the US illegally.  You still get held by ICE and you still get sent to a detention facility until your court date.  Yes, it could take years before your court date but its not like you are living in some city while this is going on, you are basically still in jail.

What your friend may be talking about is when someone comes to the boarder and seek asylum.  This is not illegal immigration since they did not cross the boarder illegally.  In this respect the Trump Administration instituted the MPP or The Migrant Protection Protocols.  This is the policy that says if you came into the US from somewhere seeking asylum then you stay there until your court date.  This policy was changed under the Biden Administration but then again this is not illegal immigration.  

I believe you really need to understand the difference between someone seeking asylum and someone just crossing the boarder illegally because the 2 are not the same.



sundin13 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

So I was talking to a TSA guy, works at a major airport. Black guy, I know he likes Obama.

...is this satire?

I'm giggling reading that. Lets just assume I meant that in the worst way possible.



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Machiavellian said:
Mr Puggsly said:

So I was talking to a TSA guy, works at a major airport. Black guy, I know he likes Obama. And he was talking to me about how crazy it is at the moment because we (the country) are letting in so many illegals, hundreds at a time. The government pays to fly them (and their family) to wherever they are going. Essentially they will get a court hearing but can live in the countries potentially for years before that happens. Before they had to stay in their country. He said this situation is something Trump did right. I told him this is a good way to win elections in the future though, he was surprised because that made sense to him. He replied, "I didn't even consider the long term plan."

"So what particular policy that has lowered the quality of life that have come from the Dems." The sudden rise in cost of living and it will continue because their policies require it. That we can absolutely credit the current administration for. However, dems in a general are doing a great job lowering quality of life locally.

I just say enough to light a fire. Now again I will wait for your complaints about GOP and praising cheap/exploited labor.

I just want to make sure I understand correctly.  So with President Biden, there was a policy change where if you are an illegal immigrant who cross the boarder illegally, you are flown to any state you want and you can wait within the US for years until your court date.  You get to live your life like nothing happen and you are not detained within a holding facility (pretty much a prison).  I want to be sure I am getting your claim correctly because I do not want to put words in your mouth.  So you are saying that under Trump, those illegal immigrants were sent back to their country to wait for a court date is that correct.  

If that is correct, can you ask your black TSA friend what is the name of that policy that changed that under Biden because from my first hand knowledge I am going to have to call BS.

First and foremost, there is no change as far as illegal immigrants who get caught in the US illegally.  You still get held by ICE and you still get sent to a detention facility until your court date.  Yes, it could take years before your court date but its not like you are living in some city while this is going on, you are basically still in jail.

What your friend may be talking about is when someone comes to the boarder and seek asylum.  This is not illegal immigration since they did not cross the boarder illegally.  In this respect the Trump Administration instituted the MPP or The Migrant Protection Protocols.  This is the policy that says if you came into the US from somewhere seeking asylum then you stay there until your court date.  This policy was changed under the Biden Administration but then again this is not illegal immigration.  

I believe you really need to understand the difference between someone seeking asylum and someone just crossing the boarder illegally because the 2 are not the same.

Ideally you throw them out. Not give them and their family a free trip. I mean what Biden is doing is nice, but it doesn't benefit the country and clearly encourages more people to come. I guess that's fine if that's actually what you want. Meanwhile you get the Vice President to say "don't come" while doing the exact opposite of discouraging them.

"Yes, it could take years before your court date but its not like you are living in some city while this is going on, you are basically still in jail." Sure, they spend years in, "jail." I would consider you naive if you really believe that. A better holding facility would be their home country, ya know... if you actually wanted to discourage this crap. On a side note, we don't get everyone coming in. I assure you the current administration isn't hunting people down either.

Coming from a poor or somewhat dangerous country should not even be entertained for asylum. That's simply much of the world or democrat run cities.

I think you're leaning into semantics. I understand not all people coming over is equal or how its done. Either way, all of this is a burden on the country. Security is poor, it will be a drain on resources, after years of waiting people also become entitled to stay (but you know this). Flooding the country with many people is the real intent and its gonna lower quality of life. I honestly don't fear this regardless if that's constantly suggested. Again, I laugh at the suffering lefty ideas have brought, its very deserved. When I see the murder rates and crime is rising, I get comfort knowing its hurting left wing voters most.

Although, I want to make one thing clear. I do credit the democrats for actually doing something great in recent time. Gun sales have gone up significantly, so has gun owners. As a pro gun person, that's always a good thing. I do wish dems would do more about violent criminals with guns, but that would put many democrat supporters in jail.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 09 July 2021

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Mr Puggsly said:
Machiavellian said:

I just want to make sure I understand correctly.  So with President Biden, there was a policy change where if you are an illegal immigrant who cross the boarder illegally, you are flown to any state you want and you can wait within the US for years until your court date.  You get to live your life like nothing happen and you are not detained within a holding facility (pretty much a prison).  I want to be sure I am getting your claim correctly because I do not want to put words in your mouth.  So you are saying that under Trump, those illegal immigrants were sent back to their country to wait for a court date is that correct.  

If that is correct, can you ask your black TSA friend what is the name of that policy that changed that under Biden because from my first hand knowledge I am going to have to call BS.

First and foremost, there is no change as far as illegal immigrants who get caught in the US illegally.  You still get held by ICE and you still get sent to a detention facility until your court date.  Yes, it could take years before your court date but its not like you are living in some city while this is going on, you are basically still in jail.

What your friend may be talking about is when someone comes to the boarder and seek asylum.  This is not illegal immigration since they did not cross the boarder illegally.  In this respect the Trump Administration instituted the MPP or The Migrant Protection Protocols.  This is the policy that says if you came into the US from somewhere seeking asylum then you stay there until your court date.  This policy was changed under the Biden Administration but then again this is not illegal immigration.  

I believe you really need to understand the difference between someone seeking asylum and someone just crossing the boarder illegally because the 2 are not the same.

Ideally you throw them out. Not give them and their family a free trip. I mean what Biden is doing is nice, but it doesn't benefit the country and clearly encourages more people to come. I guess that's fine if that's actually what you want. Meanwhile you get the Vice President to say "don't come" while doing the exact opposite of discouraging them.

"Yes, it could take years before your court date but its not like you are living in some city while this is going on, you are basically still in jail." Sure, they spend years in, "jail." I would consider you naive if you really believe that. A better holding facility would be their home country, ya know... if you actually wanted to discourage this crap. On a side note, we don't get everyone coming in. I assure you the current administration isn't hunting people down either.

Coming from a poor or somewhat dangerous country should not even be entertained for asylum. That's simply much of the world or democrat run cities.

I think you're leaning into semantics. I understand not all people coming over is equal or how its done. Either way, all of this is a burden on the country. Security is poor, it will be a drain on resources, after years of waiting people also become entitled to stay (but you know this). Flooding the country with many people is the real intent and its gonna lower quality of life. I honestly don't fear this regardless if that's constantly suggested. Again, I laugh at the suffering lefty ideas have brought, its very deserved. When I see the murder rates and crime is rising, I get comfort knowing its hurting left wing voters most.

Although, I want to make one thing clear. I do credit the democrats for actually doing something great in recent time. Gun sales have gone up significantly, so has gun owners. As a pro gun person, that's always a good thing. I do wish dems would do more about violent criminals with guns, but that would put many democrat supporters in jail.

So just so I am not putting words in your mouth, your position is that if someone is seeking asylum and not crossing the boarder illegally, that your position is to throw them out of the US.  Is this correct.  So you believe that this will discourage them from coming to the US.  So what is the metric that you are using based on that position. Before the Pandemic, from the graph I showed previously, that did not slow anything down.  Maybe you have a different graph.

Actually to seek asylum its has nothing to do if your country is poor or dangerous, instead there needs to be some sort of persecution.  That means that its not about violence within your country.  Why don't you read up on the policy so you do not have to assume on the subject.  Being ignorant on a position does not win you any points.

How is it semantics between illegally crossing the boarder and seeking asylum.  If you believe both are the same, then maybe this is a subject you should not give your opinion on until you have researched it enough.  How exactly is it a burden on the country.  What is your metric as far as asylum seekers burden and what does that have to do with security.  Like I stated there are 2 separate issues which you seem to wrap up into one.  There is illegal immigration and then there are people seeking asylum.  

I love how you Segway to murder and crime and somehow doing one of those famous GOP tactics where you attempt to place those type of issues on asylum seekers where I would love for you to prove their group is part of the crime and murder.  Not once have you provided one ounce of proof for this position but as I have stated before, facts and stats are not relevant for pure opinion.  They get in the way and basically all you can say is "I want you to keep believing blah blah". Basically you can just come out and say this is the way I feel and we can leave it at that.  There is never any sense in debating what someone feels then what they can prove because the 2 usually never line up.

Interesting stat is that the states with the highest related gun deaths are red states.  Who knows, if they keep buying and killing each other they will turn blue.  Maybe you are right, the Dems plan here is actually pretty successful.



Machiavellian said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Ideally you throw them out. Not give them and their family a free trip. I mean what Biden is doing is nice, but it doesn't benefit the country and clearly encourages more people to come. I guess that's fine if that's actually what you want. Meanwhile you get the Vice President to say "don't come" while doing the exact opposite of discouraging them.

"Yes, it could take years before your court date but its not like you are living in some city while this is going on, you are basically still in jail." Sure, they spend years in, "jail." I would consider you naive if you really believe that. A better holding facility would be their home country, ya know... if you actually wanted to discourage this crap. On a side note, we don't get everyone coming in. I assure you the current administration isn't hunting people down either.

Coming from a poor or somewhat dangerous country should not even be entertained for asylum. That's simply much of the world or democrat run cities.

I think you're leaning into semantics. I understand not all people coming over is equal or how its done. Either way, all of this is a burden on the country. Security is poor, it will be a drain on resources, after years of waiting people also become entitled to stay (but you know this). Flooding the country with many people is the real intent and its gonna lower quality of life. I honestly don't fear this regardless if that's constantly suggested. Again, I laugh at the suffering lefty ideas have brought, its very deserved. When I see the murder rates and crime is rising, I get comfort knowing its hurting left wing voters most.

Although, I want to make one thing clear. I do credit the democrats for actually doing something great in recent time. Gun sales have gone up significantly, so has gun owners. As a pro gun person, that's always a good thing. I do wish dems would do more about violent criminals with guns, but that would put many democrat supporters in jail.

So just so I am not putting words in your mouth, your position is that if someone is seeking asylum and not crossing the boarder illegally, that your position is to throw them out of the US.  Is this correct.  So you believe that this will discourage them from coming to the US.  So what is the metric that you are using based on that position. Before the Pandemic, from the graph I showed previously, that did not slow anything down.  Maybe you have a different graph.

Actually to seek asylum its has nothing to do if your country is poor or dangerous, instead there needs to be some sort of persecution.  That means that its not about violence within your country.  Why don't you read up on the policy so you do not have to assume on the subject.  Being ignorant on a position does not win you any points.

How is it semantics between illegally crossing the boarder and seeking asylum.  If you believe both are the same, then maybe this is a subject you should not give your opinion on until you have researched it enough.  How exactly is it a burden on the country.  What is your metric as far as asylum seekers burden and what does that have to do with security.  Like I stated there are 2 separate issues which you seem to wrap up into one.  There is illegal immigration and then there are people seeking asylum.  

I love how you Segway to murder and crime and somehow doing one of those famous GOP tactics where you attempt to place those type of issues on asylum seekers where I would love for you to prove their group is part of the crime and murder.  Not once have you provided one ounce of proof for this position but as I have stated before, facts and stats are not relevant for pure opinion.  They get in the way and basically all you can say is "I want you to keep believing blah blah". Basically you can just come out and say this is the way I feel and we can leave it at that.  There is never any sense in debating what someone feels then what they can prove because the 2 usually never line up.

Interesting stat is that the states with the highest related gun deaths are red states.  Who knows, if they keep buying and killing each other they will turn blue.  Maybe you are right, the Dems plan here is actually pretty successful.

Okay, lets pretend everything immigration has not changed at all. Illegal and otherwise. Also, crime along the border is the same.

"Actually to seek asylum its has nothing to do if your country is poor or dangerous, instead there needs to be some sort of persecution." You haven't seen the excuses being made by your party. Also, the policy has become just let em' in and never throw them out. This will be a burden on the country. More low skilled poor people among the many we already have. More people to require welfare of some sort.

I'm don't have the best command of the English language either, but the word is "segue." While Segway is that thing security people ride around on. Either way, I wasn't solely blaming foreigners for crime. Mostly the policies by the left that encourages decline in quality of life in general.

Looking solely at a state can be misleading. Instead, look closer at the cities. Hence, a red state can still have blue run cities which accounts for much of the crime. Some blue states also downplay the high number of dead bodies just by looking at murders per capita. The demographics of crime tend to be much the same around the country. I think much of it goes ignored because not putting away the dregs of society is somehow important.

A while back I was having a discussion with someone about crime in Alaska. It has a high murder rate per capita, among the highest in domestic violence in the country, etc. Then I took a closer look at where the crime was happening, demographics and voting trends of those areas. Needless to say, that ended in me being called racist.



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