By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - 'Heartbreaking' conditions in US migrant child camp

Pemalite said:
sundin13 said:

As for the wall, the claim that it would "absolutely help" is dubious. The reason most of these areas are lacking walls is because they have natural borders are are generally considered low traffic areas (in some areas, we would literally have to build a wall over a mountain). We already have walls in the areas that need walls.

Look, I haven't claimed the wall is going to solve every single migratory issue in the United States, it simply cannot and will not.
But it is "part of the puzzle".

These kinds of issues need multiple vectors of attack to solve.

Again, cost shouldn't be an issue, the USA is supposed to be the greatest economy on Earth... And infrastructure projects tend to be stimulating for an economy anyway.

If you already have enough walls, then great, start doing an assessment on weak points and bolster those.

sundin13 said:

Overall, the Repubicans never presented anything demonstrating that the wall would do literally anything to help, and neither have you.

The thing with your "do nothing" approach, is it's not proactive, it's not going to change the status quo.
That is ultimately the difference here.

Neither have I asserted that the wall is going to cure all migratory issues in the USA, it's just one tool that is needed to compliment other approaches to have a systemic and effective, long-term solution.

Your arguments in favor of the wall continue to be incredibly vague and without any argumentative force. I don't know what you want me to do with them at this point, as you continue to refuse to make an argument beyond asserting that you are right.

As for your point regarding cost, it is nonsense. Of course cost matters. If we were to spend money on everything that would provide any degree of measurable benefit, the country would likely collapse under the weight of the spending. As such, we need to weigh the benefit of certain types of spending. Building a fence over a mountain is generally pretty shit value for the cost. When you look at the fact that we could end homelessness for less than the price of the wall, it really begs the question of "Where should this be in our priority list?". 

As for your comment about how I have a "do nothing" approach, you're making me want to act up, sir (and not in a good way). I have proposed numerous solutions to the problems you have mentioned, so kindly fuck off with this bullshit? Yes, improving technology at ports of entry to better detect contraband at the places where we know the majority of contraband enters the country is fucking proactive, and it would help. Yes, providing health care to everyone would improve public health and safety in a proactive way which would very much change the status quo. If this is the shit you have to say to me, I'm done. 



Around the Network
Pemalite said:


Machiavellian said:

I am not sure you get it.  Trying to compare Australia to the US seems far fetched.  Your country does not even come close to the amount of traffic that goes through the US within one hour compared to one year in your country.  Saying you secured your boarder when you are in the middle of nowhere where you catch the occasional boat full of people seems unrealistic.  Just the port of entry alone between the 2 nations and scale is totally different.  Let not act as if securing Australia boarder is the same as securing any mainland country.

On the contrary. YOU are not getting it.
The differences between the USA and Australia is irrelevant.

Who was it that made the claim.  "Australia has solved illegal Immigration".  So basically you are throwing out context because it does not fit your world view.  You are simply ignoring the difference between the 2 nations because its more simple in your mind that securing the boarder of Australia is the same as the US.  Your answer is build a wall, which by the way we have plenty of walls as if that was the solution in the past and somehow doing the same thing is going to result in something different.  The fact that illegal immigrants come over the wall, under the wall, through the wall, from the sea, from the air, you name it suggest to me that your wall solution is a waste of time, resource and money. 

Machiavellian said:

You solving an issue that really not an issue because you are in the middle of the ocean is nothing to proclaim.  The volume just not there to make an apples to apples comparison.  Its as if you were a nation on the moon and saying we solved illegal immigration because you see a ship every 2 years.

People dying trying to illegally come here is a big fucking issue. We are talking thousands dead.

Again, you are missing the point of an "all hazards approach".

We stopped illegal immigration in our country. - The scales we are talking about are absolutely different, but again, are also absolutely irrelevant to the point at hand.

We went from 800~ boats a year down to 20~ boats a year due to change of border policy.

I probably do not need to mention that I am-in fact on the front lines of this issue in my nation due to my particular roles in deep-sea marine rescue, I have seen this first hand.

You have not stopped illegal immigration.  You only handled one specific situation which is by sea.  You have one solution to a problem that has multiple issues and then trying to proclaim you done something.  This is why you seem to not get it.  Your one solution does not equal the same situation in the US because there are multiple ways for illegal immigrants get into the country.  Your experience in this area is from a point of view of your job which has no correlation to a mainland issue.  Then you suggest that a wall will make a difference when the US already have walls.  What makes you think more walls in mountain, swamps and other locations unsuitable for such construction will change the outcome if the current walls are not doing the job.

Machiavellian said:

Well of course its better than the US when you have the population the size of one state in the middle of the ocean.  At the end of the day, if you have an issue does it really matter if you are better than your neighbor.  You still have an issue.  The way you made your previous statement you basically asserted that you solved drug issues but that doesn't seem to be the case.  

*Sigh* you really don't understand the mathematical point of per-capita statistics do you?
Overall population size is thus irrelevant, that's just an argument that someone enjoys using because they don't wish to extrapolate comparative statistics.

In the end...
We solved gun-related crime in this country.
We have reduced our drug-related crime in this country, with more work being done on this front.
We solved illegal immigration in this country.

But you know, apparently it's all irrelevant? Give me a break, the USA needs to start looking towards successful models and start scaling it up instead of incessant complaining in order to retain the status quo, whilst complaining about the status quo. It's toxic circular rhetoric.

So let me understand this correctly.  Are you saying that 28 million people on an isolated island statistically can be compared to a mainland country of 338 million people.  That somehow, the 2 nations have so much in common that statistically their issues can be compared the same.  So on a social, political ,economic comparison its all relative.  I do not know what mathematical model you are using but it must be very simplistic.

So let me ask this question, how did you solve gun related crime in your country? How would the US take your model and apply it.  I would love to see how that would work and would be all for it.  If its asking all the gun owners to give up their guns, then you have no clue about the US.

As for solving problems, if I threw up a stat with a US state that has comparative drug related crime to Australia with the same population size would that be apples to apples comparison??

You did not solve illegal immigration, you only reduced one specific issue which is by sea.  You still have a crap load of visa overstays just like the US which is still the majority of illegal immigration in the US.

If the US needs to ask Australia how to stop illegal immigration by sea, you will be the first on the list but if your solution is to build more walls then I think we can easily ignore that advice.  When you start to build walls around Australia, you let us know then we can see how well that goes for you.

I am absolutely thankful to be living in one of the greatest, freedom loving, equal, countries on Earth which seems to be able to competently solve more issues than the largest economy on earth. (Universal Healthcare, Gun Control, Border control, etc'.)


It wasn't that hard.

Know how we did it? We don't shut off "ideas" simply because they are right wing or left wing aka. Republican vs Democrat. - We weigh policy based on it's individual merits for the benefit of the entire nation.

You know a dictator can also solve more problems as well.  Not sure why you believe with the size of your population and government it would be harder to solve issues then for a country as large as the US with 2 polar political parties.  

It really does not matter how you did it.  Australia is not the US.  Your history is not the same as the US, your conditions are not the same, your culture is not the same.  Nothing about Australia is the same as the US and it never will be.  Your point of view and perspective is too narrow to give advice outside of your own country.  It would be great if the US took all the good ideals and left the rest but that's never going to happen because in a country of 338 million people, All from different backgrounds, relationships, countries and nationalities it takes decades to move the needle. As I stated before, when all the old heads die off is when the US moves forward.

While its great that your country is divers, it definitely does not show in your government.








Machiavellian said:

No I do not think all illegals are equal, I am saying the system in place today uses illegal immigrants who cross the southern boarder as cheap labor.  That this practice has been going on for decades.  The current system vilify this group while also taking advantage of their service because its nice politics.  Its always and will be nice politics because Americans need something to hate or blame.  The crazy part is that the stats show that the majority of illegal immigrants are not even the ones coming over the southern boarder but the ones flying, driving or on a boat and out stay their visa.  The thing is, the ones coming from those sh*thold countries make better politics.

Yes, I have google but then again since I did not see any rise in crime, as I checked government and state stats, it was a waste of my time to argue with you on it.  The only thing that has gone up is undocumented children left at the boarder but then again this is nothing new and is a trend as shone by the document I posted.  

You're just using talking points, lots nonsense. Ultimately, most people agree the current border situation is a mess and not beneficial for the country.

Right, there has been no increase in crime recently on the border. Everything is the same. You keep believing that.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

sundin13 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

You don't prevent immigration just by watching the borders per se. Actually throwing people out when found in the country is also worth considering. But even violent criminals manage to avoid being thrown out. There are countless examples of illegals being arrested over and over again until they do something truly heinous.

Universal healthcare doesn't exist now. We need to create it for illegals? Is that in the budget? I see trillions of spending and still no universal healthcare.

Again, "big wall" isn't the only aspect of controlling illegal immigration. Enforcing many existing laws could also help. The democrat solution also seems to require spending a lot of money and I'm not sure how it benefits the country as we see it now.

The primary Immigration strategy under Obama was the ejection of criminal undocumented immigrants through the formal removal process (as opposed to the non-compulsory Return process which often results in people being "arrested over and over again until they do something truly heinous"). Under Bush, 2 million people were formally removed from the country, while under Obama, that number increased to 3 million. Of that 3 million, about 77% were considered "first priority removals", which largely encompasses national security threats and felons (despite illegal immigration being higher under Bush and spiking again under Trump). This means that Obama removed more high priority individuals than Bush removed total. Under Trump, for the three years with available data, all three fell below Obama's average. 

So again I ask you, what exactly are you complaining about? Democratic leadership has shown that they prioritize the removal of those who pose a danger to American citizens, and do it more successfully than Republican leadership.

As for Universal healthcare, we need to create it for everyone who is uninsured or underinsured or struggling to pay for adequate insurance. For reasons that should be pretty clear from a public health perspective, Americans are more safe when everybody is covered. If you want to address the danger of an uninsured population, the best way to go about it is by insuring them. If you are implying that you fail to see a benefit to Universal Health Care, you clearly aren't looking.

Obama was a moderate compared to what we have now. In fact, the only reason he's not a villain to many is because he's not white. The situation we have right now is a massive spike and an incentive to do so. Its almost like people are pretending no policies have changed.

I'd love for everybody to have access to great, "free" healthcare. Do I have much faith in government to make that happen? Not really. They don't even make healthcare more affordable even though that's a promise of every campaign.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

You don't prevent immigration just by watching the borders per se. Actually throwing people out when found in the country is also worth considering. But even violent criminals manage to avoid being thrown out. There are countless examples of illegals being arrested over and over again until they do something truly heinous.

Universal healthcare doesn't exist now. We need to create it for illegals? Is that in the budget? I see trillions of spending and still no universal healthcare.

Again, "big wall" isn't the only aspect of controlling illegal immigration. Enforcing many existing laws could also help. The democrat solution also seems to require spending a lot of money and I'm not sure how it benefits the country as we see it now.

This was part of our policy here.

People are less likely to "make the trip" if they are only going to be turned around on arrival.

People smugglers earn thousands by smuggling people in, that business model tends to collapse when their customers get turned around and sent back home.

And smuggling people, is a business. A very lucrative one.

-Universal healthcare shouldn't discriminate, doesn't matter if you are tourist, traveling from overseas, illegal immigrant, you should be able to walk into any health clinic and seek the assistance you require, no questions or bullshit. - It needs to be quick, effective and efficient... And ultimately (the dream idea), world wide.

Yes those people will add costs to the system... However if the system is working appropriately, the total cost of healthcare for the *entire* nation should be lower anyway.
Healthcare should be a fundamental human right so people have the opportunity to succeed in life, not become a financial issue.

"However if the system is working appropriately." That's the thing, republicans and libertarians often exist because our government's inability to make things work appropriately. Just a general lack of trust of the people in power, meanwhile democrats are the most hungry for power and often oppose states right unless its to protect their agendas.

A question I like throwing at people regardless what party they support is, "what does our government do well?" If people do have some answers, I also follow up with, "what does our government do well and efficiently (costs)?" They are generally stumped at that point because they know our government fails at just about everything major.

I don't support democrats period. But I am actually glad they have power just so we can see in practice what a fucking joke they are. Its almost like we are living in a parody and people deserve the suffering its causing. It has also shown their priorities are not the same as many of their supporters.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Around the Network
Mr Puggsly said:

You're just using talking points, lots nonsense. Ultimately, most people agree the current border situation is a mess and not beneficial for the country.

Right, there has been no increase in crime recently on the border. Everything is the same. You keep believing that.

It is quite funny to see you accusing someone else of using talking points and nonsense, despite the fact that you have repeatedly failed to give me a concrete example of what you are criticizing from the Democrats...  Not only are you rattling off talking points, you aren't even good at it.



sundin13 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

You're just using talking points, lots nonsense. Ultimately, most people agree the current border situation is a mess and not beneficial for the country.

Right, there has been no increase in crime recently on the border. Everything is the same. You keep believing that.

It is quite funny to see you accusing someone else of using talking points and nonsense, despite the fact that you have repeatedly failed to give me a concrete example of what you are criticizing from the Democrats...  Not only are you rattling off talking points, you aren't even good at it.

"you have repeatedly failed to give me a concrete example of what you are criticizing from the Democrats."

The fact you need me to even search out the evidence shows how oblivious you are. In your eyes nothing has changed, or maybe everything the current administration has touched is actually an improvement. I can't spend too much time talking to ideologues.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Pemalite said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

I can provide you with a counter-example: When the Schengen-area was created, Luxembourg got easy access both to the Netherlands (for people to go buy weed when it was still highly illegal) and to the sea (for dealers to ship in the drugs they want to sell). With the open borders and no checks whatsoever, you would think drug use went up, but it actually went down for years after the creation of the Schengen area despite the access got much easier, both for clients and dealers.

What other influences were at play? Was there an increase in wages, job availability, education and general standard of living?

People living in poor conditions tend to be more prone to drug use as a recreational tool.

However, drugs aren't the only issue that illegal immigrants bring in, this is just nitpicking at an aspect... But I will absolutely look into the case-scenario you mentioned.

Wage increase rate didn't change much, it actually slowed down a bit but that came from lower inflation (Everyone in Luxembourg gets an automatic 2.5% wage increase if inflation rises 2.5% over the last wage increase).

Job availability was also mostly unchanged, both in volume or by sector. Banking was already huge and only a decade later this diminished a bit.

As for education, no major reforms had been done around that time. It took another dozen years or so for any substantial changes to happen here.

And by the general standard of living, it's hard to say. It went mostly up, but since the mid-80's there's been a massive house price boom (for reference, my parents built their house through an architect's firm and a special construction company, and with the lot, they paid around 125k Euro for it. By now, the lot alone is worth about 400k, and if the house would be in great shape, then the whole would sell for about 1M, so 8 times more they paid for 25 years ago all while inflation and wage increase only grew by ~65% during that period.), so fewer and fewer people can afford housing since the mid 80's.

This boom btw is not so much fueled by speculation, but rather by a galloping population increase: Since the mid-80's, population grew by ~80% from 370k to 640k, with the expectation to hit 1M around 2050. Might not sound like much, but that's still an increase in population density from 143 persons per square kilometers to 247 persons by square kilometers, and with 1M we would hit 387 persons per square kilometers. By comparison, Australia has a paltry 3/km2 and the US 33/km2.



Mr Puggsly said:
Machiavellian said:

No I do not think all illegals are equal, I am saying the system in place today uses illegal immigrants who cross the southern boarder as cheap labor.  That this practice has been going on for decades.  The current system vilify this group while also taking advantage of their service because its nice politics.  Its always and will be nice politics because Americans need something to hate or blame.  The crazy part is that the stats show that the majority of illegal immigrants are not even the ones coming over the southern boarder but the ones flying, driving or on a boat and out stay their visa.  The thing is, the ones coming from those sh*thold countries make better politics.

Yes, I have google but then again since I did not see any rise in crime, as I checked government and state stats, it was a waste of my time to argue with you on it.  The only thing that has gone up is undocumented children left at the boarder but then again this is nothing new and is a trend as shone by the document I posted.  

You're just using talking points, lots nonsense. Ultimately, most people agree the current border situation is a mess and not beneficial for the country.

Right, there has been no increase in crime recently on the border. Everything is the same. You keep believing that.

Yes, the boarder situation which has gone up and down based on the document that I posted shows that this is a tread that has been happening for decades no matter the President.  Basically you just did what pretty much most of the same people you talk about do, they dismiss concrete information for opinion.  You care more about the look then the facts and it allow you to get on the old bandwagon.  You seem to wrap 2 separate issues into one.  The first issue is children left at the boarder and actual illegal entry. These 2 situations are not the same but they are wrapped in the same holy war because its convenient.

Where are your stats or document to show the increase in crime or is that to hard for you to muster.  I mean since you are so convinced I am sure you have the stats to prove it or is this just another opinion formed in your mind but with little in the way of documented facts to prove.  That is the state where we seem to be at where opinion is the guiding force which is easily manipulated.  Kept in fear, manipulated in believing lies, misinformation and propaganda.

The fact is that we are so intent on trying to stop people from coming here using something as inefficient as a wall instead of doing something more productive inside and outside of the US.  We already have a nice undocumented population who actually work.  Lets get them IDs so they can put their money into the system.  Lets provide work permits for people who want to work but do not want to stay.  Employers can list their needs and people who are already working those jobs can get IDs and contribute.  We really need to stop wasting a 3rd of our GDP on our military when that money could solve so much within the US.  Universal Healthcare alone would be the benefit.  In order to get actual real healthcare by having a job should not be the standard.  Republicans love to nix any Universal Healthcare and make it condition on a job but lose your Job for any length of time and find out just how beat-up that system is.  Find out real quick just how expensive it is for insurance if there was no ACA back in the day when Cobra was the only thing you could get.  Go through the process of trying to get medicaid when the only person you can get insured is your child.  Nothing hits home more than a pandemic and people find out the real cost of GOP policy, when you are out of work hoping for any assistance so you do not lose your house, car, or health.



Machiavellian said:
Mr Puggsly said:

You're just using talking points, lots nonsense. Ultimately, most people agree the current border situation is a mess and not beneficial for the country.

Right, there has been no increase in crime recently on the border. Everything is the same. You keep believing that.

Yes, the boarder situation which has gone up and down based on the document that I posted shows that this is a tread that has been happening for decades no matter the President.  Basically you just did what pretty much most of the same people you talk about do, they dismiss concrete information for opinion.  You care more about the look then the facts and it allow you to get on the old bandwagon.  You seem to wrap 2 separate issues into one.  The first issue is children left at the boarder and actual illegal entry. These 2 situations are not the same but they are wrapped in the same holy war because its convenient.

Where are your stats or document to show the increase in crime or is that to hard for you to muster.  I mean since you are so convinced I am sure you have the stats to prove it or is this just another opinion formed in your mind but with little in the way of documented facts to prove.  That is the state where we seem to be at where opinion is the guiding force which is easily manipulated.  Kept in fear, manipulated in believing lies, misinformation and propaganda.

The fact is that we are so intent on trying to stop people from coming here using something as inefficient as a wall instead of doing something more productive inside and outside of the US.  We already have a nice undocumented population who actually work.  Lets get them IDs so they can put their money into the system.  Lets provide work permits for people who want to work but do not want to stay.  Employers can list their needs and people who are already working those jobs can get IDs and contribute.  We really need to stop wasting a 3rd of our GDP on our military when that money could solve so much within the US.  Universal Healthcare alone would be the benefit.  In order to get actual real healthcare by having a job should not be the standard.  Republicans love to nix any Universal Healthcare and make it condition on a job but lose your Job for any length of time and find out just how beat-up that system is.  Find out real quick just how expensive it is for insurance if there was no ACA back in the day when Cobra was the only thing you could get.  Go through the process of trying to get medicaid when the only person you can get insured is your child.  Nothing hits home more than a pandemic and people find out the real cost of GOP policy, when you are out of work hoping for any assistance so you do not lose your house, car, or health.

Boy, I don't have to say much to get you going/shilling.

I feel like you're ignoring the administration caters to illegals. Unsurprisingly, its encouraging significantly more to come over.

I prefer you continue thinking border crime is stagnant. Who needs to accept reality?

I'm not opposed to all left leaning ideas, I'm opposed to the the dems current agenda of objectively lowering quality of life and pouring resources to places that don't help your average productive US citizen. Opposition to dems exists because many of their ideas have been failing in practice. Its no coincidence blue cities/states are doing worse on many metrics and encouraging people to leave.

Again, I'm genuinely not that interested in a debate. You'll get very general responses at best.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)