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Forums - Politics Discussion - Non-Americans Stunned By American Health Care Costs

Mr Puggsly said:
curl-6 said:

That's just not accurate.

In a ponzi scheme new investors are acquired to funnel profits to old investors, with the new either seeing no benefit or hardly any. Universal medicare benefits anyone who needs it, and society as a whole because it is in the best interests of a country to have a healthy population.

"In a ponzi scheme new investors are acquired to funnel profits to old investors." That's actually exactly what's happening with medicare. Again, the "old" are getting much more than they put in and the "new" pay to keep it afloat. Here in the US it starts at 65, but people weren't expected to live much longer than that when it was designed.

Taxes on medicare and social security have frankly not increased enough based on trends. The only tax increases that are popular though are on the rich. There is also the argument retirement age should be increased. Obviously that's not a popular thing for a politician to suggest. Given those circumstances its a popular system, but may lose some praise if taxes increased.

So again, just clarifying its a popular system that's arguably undertaxed and at this point very funded by the "new." Also, its not like medicare money is just sitting around. The "new" have to pay for it. Which is why I use the term ponzi scheme.

The new benefit just as much from it when they need it though, unlike in a Ponzi scheme where new investors do not get a fair share of the benefits.

If you get injured in a car crash at age 18 or are born with a lifelong congenital disease, you still get the full benefits. When I got cancer at age 30 I didn't have to go broke or go without treatment as a low income earner because of it.



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curl-6 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

"In a ponzi scheme new investors are acquired to funnel profits to old investors." That's actually exactly what's happening with medicare. Again, the "old" are getting much more than they put in and the "new" pay to keep it afloat. Here in the US it starts at 65, but people weren't expected to live much longer than that when it was designed.

Taxes on medicare and social security have frankly not increased enough based on trends. The only tax increases that are popular though are on the rich. There is also the argument retirement age should be increased. Obviously that's not a popular thing for a politician to suggest. Given those circumstances its a popular system, but may lose some praise if taxes increased.

So again, just clarifying its a popular system that's arguably undertaxed and at this point very funded by the "new." Also, its not like medicare money is just sitting around. The "new" have to pay for it. Which is why I use the term ponzi scheme.

The new benefit just as much from it when they need it though, unlike in a Ponzi scheme where new investors do not get a fair share of the benefits.

If you get injured in a car crash at age 18 or are born with a lifelong congenital disease, you still get the full benefits. When I got cancer at age 30 I didn't have to go broke or go without treatment as a low income earner because of it.

I tend to be a bit pessimistic about programs run unsustainably. At some point the "new" are gonna have to get hit with a large tax increase. While the "old" will say, "I am entitled because I paid!" Hence, its not gonna be fair at this rate because the old are getting more than they put in, the new will pay more because the program is no longer sustaining itself. We are already at that point by the way, there just hasn't been a tax increase.

Medicaid and social security are different. I'm fine with safety nets for people that truly need them. Primarily if they have real problems, not just a series of dumb life choices. I want people with cancer and other serious conditions to be socialized for the poor. It would take only fraction to pay for that versus every little need that many working people could pay out of pocket. Everybody needs the small things, but a much smaller number of people need help with bankrupting medical issues.



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Mr Puggsly said:
curl-6 said:

The new benefit just as much from it when they need it though, unlike in a Ponzi scheme where new investors do not get a fair share of the benefits.

If you get injured in a car crash at age 18 or are born with a lifelong congenital disease, you still get the full benefits. When I got cancer at age 30 I didn't have to go broke or go without treatment as a low income earner because of it.

I tend to be a bit pessimistic about programs run unsustainably. At some point the "new" are gonna have to get hit with a large tax increase. While the "old" will say, "I am entitled because I paid!" Hence, its not gonna be fair at this rate because the old are getting more than they put in, the new will pay more because the program is no longer sustaining itself. We are already at that point by the way, there just hasn't been a tax increase.

Medicaid and social security are different. I'm fine with safety nets for people that truly need them. Primarily if they have real problems, not just a series of dumb life choices. I want people with cancer and other serious conditions to be socialized for the poor. It would take only fraction to pay for that versus every little need that many working people could pay out of pocket. Everybody needs the small things, but a much smaller number of people need help with bankrupting medical issues.

Universal Medicare was established 37 years ago here in 1984 and seems to be sustaining itself just fine. 

Personally, even if I hadn't gotten cancer and ended up needing it, I'm fine with paying a little over time not just in case I need it, but so that a kid with cancer can get life saving surgery or a granddad with a bad heart can get the transplant he needs. Of all the things my tax dollars could be spent on, I'm fine with them going towards helping others.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 04 May 2021

Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

Do you think the capitalization on the American health system is the reason for the medical industry pushing all the bizarrely and clearly unhealthy diets like the all-fat and all-meat diets?
It’s like they're grooming people for a future in a hospital bed.

EDIT - wow, had to fix the oldest English grammar mistake in the book, haha!

Last edited by Jumpin - on 07 May 2021

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Mr Puggsly said:
Trumpstyle said:

I found this healthcare study which ranks all the countries in the world, it's from 2021.

https://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

This ranking is the same as that study, Sweden is ranked 23, it should really be ranked top 5. Not sure what metrics they are using as I didn't read the pdf. But the healthcare in my country has been excellent.

Just taking a glance at the PDF and knowing a little about how lists like this are put together, costs is a big factor. Maybe even more than the actual quality of what is offered. I mean its worth considering people with money do actually travel to #37 for care. Meanwhile people looking to pay less go somewhere else.

The point I was trying to make in earlier posts is simply making the effort to improve affordability and socializing some aspects that bankrupt people, like cancer. That would actually make people feel much better about our system even without making the leap to universal healthcare.

Well then, consider this: If you travel to the US and are under luxembourgish healthcare, you have to get a special healthcare insurance only for traveling to the US. What's so special about it? It stipulates that if you get sick and/or injured, the Luxembourg Air Rescue could send a medical plane over to pick you up and get your treatment in there and then then the follow-up in Luxembourg, with all the costs (including the flight and accommodation you booked) taken over by the CNS, the luxembourgish healthcare agency. Because no matter how good the care is, it's just not worth the outlandish prices in the US, and it's cheaper for our healthcare service to send a medical plane to pick you up than to cover for your treatment in the US, which is in most cases pretty much exactly the same as one would get in Luxembourg or other countries in western/northern Europe.

Also, while affordability is a factor, it's not the biggest one. It is what costs the US a good position, though. And I say good and not top on purpose, because even with the costs being taken out of the equation, getting into the top 10 would still have been very hard considering there's quite a gap to fill, and it's certainly not all due to the pricetag.



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Mr Puggsly said:
curl-6 said:

The new benefit just as much from it when they need it though, unlike in a Ponzi scheme where new investors do not get a fair share of the benefits.

If you get injured in a car crash at age 18 or are born with a lifelong congenital disease, you still get the full benefits. When I got cancer at age 30 I didn't have to go broke or go without treatment as a low income earner because of it.

I tend to be a bit pessimistic about programs run unsustainably. At some point the "new" are gonna have to get hit with a large tax increase. While the "old" will say, "I am entitled because I paid!" Hence, its not gonna be fair at this rate because the old are getting more than they put in, the new will pay more because the program is no longer sustaining itself. We are already at that point by the way, there just hasn't been a tax increase.

Medicaid and social security are different. I'm fine with safety nets for people that truly need them. Primarily if they have real problems, not just a series of dumb life choices. I want people with cancer and other serious conditions to be socialized for the poor. It would take only fraction to pay for that versus every little need that many working people could pay out of pocket. Everybody needs the small things, but a much smaller number of people need help with bankrupting medical issues.

Just as a comparison with the luxembourgish healthcare, which gets run 100% by how much gets paid in by the employees, which is 3.25% of the monthly wage (for those used to yearly wages, in case of a 60k salary you'd pay $162.50 per month for the healthcare, much cheaper than most premiums I saw in the US lately). Our healthcare had only 3 times run a deficit since 2000 (2008, 2009 and 2017; the coronavirus tests and vaccines are directly done by the health ministry, otherwise 2020 and 2021 more than likely would also had a deficit) despite giving much better coverage and cheaper prices than in the US.

And while there was an increase in the amount of the wage that goes to healthcare in 2013, it was only raised from 3.20% to 3.25%, so a 0.05% increase that maybe cost us an Euro or two more per month.



curl-6 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I tend to be a bit pessimistic about programs run unsustainably. At some point the "new" are gonna have to get hit with a large tax increase. While the "old" will say, "I am entitled because I paid!" Hence, its not gonna be fair at this rate because the old are getting more than they put in, the new will pay more because the program is no longer sustaining itself. We are already at that point by the way, there just hasn't been a tax increase.

Medicaid and social security are different. I'm fine with safety nets for people that truly need them. Primarily if they have real problems, not just a series of dumb life choices. I want people with cancer and other serious conditions to be socialized for the poor. It would take only fraction to pay for that versus every little need that many working people could pay out of pocket. Everybody needs the small things, but a much smaller number of people need help with bankrupting medical issues.

Universal Medicare was established 37 years ago here in 1984 and seems to be sustaining itself just fine. 

Personally, even if I hadn't gotten cancer and ended up needing it, I'm fine with paying a little over time not just in case I need it, but so that a kid with cancer can get life saving surgery or a granddad with a bad heart can get the transplant he needs. Of all the things my tax dollars could be spent on, I'm fine with them going towards helping others.

I wasn't comparing to other countries. Just making a point about how its being run poorly here due to fear of raising taxes.

I am not opposed to all safety nets and I already stressed life saving care that bankrupts people should be among the first thing we socialize from a payment concern.



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Jumpin said:

Do you think the capitalization on the American health system is the reason for the medical industry pushing all the bizarrely and clearly unhealthy diets like the all-fat and all-meat diets?
It’s like their grooming people for a future in a hospital bed.

No. I think excessive eating and poor choices throughout the day are much more destructive to the human body than fad diets.

The American health system doesn't really push anything. Especially after realizing the food pyramid was trash. At best they just recommend to avoid obviously shit food.

I personally tell fatties intermittent fasting is the answer. You can eat junk, shit like a champ and lose weight. But nobody listens to me.



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