Forums - PC Discussion - Will 'Console Killer' PC's be dead for next gen?

(Random thought) Considering this thread, which Console do you think will be cheaper?

Playstation 5 16 32.65%
 
Xbox Series X 10 20.41%
 
Same Launch Price 23 46.94%
 
Total:49
Bofferbrauer2 said:
Captain_Yuri said:

AMD has been fairly competitive in their budget categories against Nvidia. It's their top tier cards that have always been the issues which is a shame T_T.

And then you would need to look at something like the CPU since just because it's an AMD 8 core 16 threads with similar frequencies doesn't mean it will perform the same as we know that things like the L3 cache has been reduced on the console versions and you have 1 core reserved for OS and etc. Then you will have these brand new SSDs coming out with reads that can do 6.5GB/s but is that even gonna matter cause of the Series X's SSD and real world performance and then you can get windows for like $20-$30 from kinguin and blah blah blah. This can be a back and forth speculation that won't matter until they all release which as a working man, I don't have time for and I am sure you have better things to do as well.

Now personally, I am not a fan of the whole idea of "Console Killer" PCs. PCs are a general purpose device vs consoles are a very much specialized device. Because of the Covid for example, I am working from home and in order for me to do that, we need to use Sonicwall's NetExtender VPN. You can't do that on a console for example. But on the other hand, you won't get the level of optimization that comes from owing a console. So for me, PC's should always have the general purpose tax for me to ever recommend one instead of one where so many corners have been cut that if you look at it the wrong way, it will slap you cross the face, fuck your wife and leave with your dog.

But at the end of the day, I think the PC parts that are on the horizon will be able to bring PCs a lot closer to the performance of the ps5 and Series X so I wouldn't count out those budget builds just yet.

This is why I think creating a perfect relative in terms of price on PC is almost impossible.

Let's start with the CPU for instance: 8 core, but one reserved for the OS, less cache and lower boost speed. So should the equivalent PC build use a 3700X (since 8 cores), or just a 3600X or even 3600 (to take the missing core, cache and lower speeds into account)?

Now to the SSD. What will that fast SSD really do on the PS5, especially on multiplats? My guess is that it's a great thing, but will only really be utilized in first and second party titles, causing a similar (although less pronounced) problem than what Sony had with the Cell in the PS3. So a PCI-E 3.0 NVMe SSD of the same size should suffice - or does it?

Really, the best time to see what the consoles really can do and how much an equivalent PC would cost would be shortly after launch, after the real world performance of the next gen had been tested in a couple games. Only when you know what they can achieve can you really make something equivalent in performance.

I also dislike the notion of a console killer for all the reasons you mentioned. But I also want to see how much a PC with similar performance costs and how far away that is to the cost of the consoles. If the price gap between PC and consoles for the same performance gets too big, then it will drain gamers away from the PC and to the consoles. The other way around is also true, if the consoles bring not enough tangible advantage over a gaming PC, then why not directly go to the latter? It's all an act of balance that needs to be achieved here for both to thrive.

Pretty much. Not to mention the AF versions of CPUs. If AMD releases 3600 for $100 or less and call it 2600 AF like they did with Ryzen 1600 AF, just with a 2600, oof. I may have to take out my lube again.

Last edited by Captain_Yuri - on 20 July 2020

             

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Bofferbrauer2 said:
ArchangelMadzz said:

I feel Nvidia did pull an intel with the RTX 2000 series with their pricing and effort. It could've been much more powerful at a lower price if they really wanted to so I really hope pricing is competitive this time around. 

From what I've heard is that GDDR6 was in very high demand but also very low supply, which raised the priced up a lot in 2019 and kept the prices for graphics cards high. I'm sure this problem is (mostly) gone next GPU gen, and prices can thus easily go lower this time around.

I looked at the prices recently and the 2070 super still costs basically as much as it did when I bought it which I was surprised to find. But if the new cards are much better and lower priced the price for this is going to tank hardd. 

People are selling it on ebay for even more than that, most likely flippers wanting to get the new cards. I'd sell mine but I don't have a spare high level gaming GPU just lying around to use in the meantime cause who does




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Doesn't seem like much has changed at all.

Nvidia's 30 series cards coming this fall will be more powerful than the PS5/XSX. PS5 doesn't even look like a full RDNA2 chip to boot.



ArchangelMadzz said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

From what I've heard is that GDDR6 was in very high demand but also very low supply, which raised the priced up a lot in 2019 and kept the prices for graphics cards high. I'm sure this problem is (mostly) gone next GPU gen, and prices can thus easily go lower this time around.

I looked at the prices recently and the 2070 super still costs basically as much as it did when I bought it which I was surprised to find. But if the new cards are much better and lower priced the price for this is going to tank hardd. 

People are selling it on ebay for even more than that, most likely flippers wanting to get the new cards. I'd sell mine but I don't have a spare high level gaming GPU just lying around to use in the meantime cause who does


2070 Super is not going down in price until the 3070 is available. Nothing really strange about that. 



Soundwave said:
Doesn't seem like much has changed at all.

Nvidia's 30 series cards coming this fall will be more powerful than the PS5/XSX. PS5 doesn't even look like a full RDNA2 chip to boot.

The GPU in the PS5 is heavily customized but at its base is still based on RDNA 2, minus ML. PS5 has Geometry Engine, GPU cache scrubbers and a modified a CU for audio. So we can't really make 1-1 comparisons with off the shelf parts. They are customized architectures designed to make the most of the hardware. Xbox also has Velocity Engine etc.

"Variable Rate Shading is nice for saving cycles, but VRS’ optimization capability doesn’t hold a handle to the Geometry Engine’s capabilities. VRS without GE means you’re still processing vertices you can/should eliminate in earlier stages to begin with. More free compute/memory." - Matt Hargett (Activision Lead Artist)

Granted PC's will still have the edge in performance these consoles will still be quite powerful (especially for the price). PC's just don't come close to value if we are talking performance per dollar/euro/pound as you're buying parts from different vendors which ends up costing more upfront. I doubt you will be able to build anything remotely close to $500/£479 even through the console cycle. Between the SSD and GPU you're already there and then some.

Last edited by hinch - on 20 July 2020

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I vaguely remember reading something about the latest high end Nvidia gpu's (2080 / 20180ti) being more expensive this time around due to a lack of competition from AMD, and the GPU generation prior (1080, 1080ti) also being expensive because people were using them to mine Bitcoin or something. I doubt the upcoming Nvidia gpu's will go back to being as cheap as the gtx 90's, but with more competition, perhaps we'll see some better prices than what we have now, or at the very least, some faster price cuts.





NyanNyanNekoChan said:
I vaguely remember reading something about the latest high end Nvidia gpu's (2080 / 20180ti) being more expensive this time around due to a lack of competition from AMD, and the GPU generation prior (1080, 1080ti) also being expensive because people were using them to mine Bitcoin or something. I doubt the upcoming Nvidia gpu's will go back to being as cheap as the gtx 90's, but with more competition, perhaps we'll see some better prices than what we have now, or at the very least, some faster price cuts.



Be that as it may, the gpu is just one part of a pc, without it we are still looking at like $600-800. then add whatever gpu might come that matches it. 



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ArchangelMadzz said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

From what I've heard is that GDDR6 was in very high demand but also very low supply, which raised the priced up a lot in 2019 and kept the prices for graphics cards high. I'm sure this problem is (mostly) gone next GPU gen, and prices can thus easily go lower this time around.

I looked at the prices recently and the 2070 super still costs basically as much as it did when I bought it which I was surprised to find. But if the new cards are much better and lower priced the price for this is going to tank hardd. 

People are selling it on ebay for even more than that, most likely flippers wanting to get the new cards. I'd sell mine but I don't have a spare high level gaming GPU just lying around to use in the meantime cause who does

The cards got cheaper in Fall and early Winter, it's just that due to the increased demand and reduced production from the human coronavirus malware the prices went right up again. This is why many argue that right now is the worst moment to buy or upgrade a PC, as not only is the next gen of hardware right around the corner (AMD desktop CPUs, Intel mobile CPUs, AMD and NVidia GPUs are all supposed to release within the next months), but also the current hardware is horribly overpriced due to the lockdowns.



ArchangelMadzz said:
vivster said:

If someone only cares about games and doesn't care about upgrading he will buy a console, it's that simple. No reason to compare a price when there is no alternative. Same the other way around. Even if a PC is 10 times more expensive than a console but does a thing a console can't do you will still buy the PC and not the console.

Another thing you ignore in your comparison is getting a PC that is weaker than a console. If you want a gaming PC you don't have to get high midrange. You can just get a cheaper PC and upgrade later when you have the funds. There is no reason to match a console's power 1:1 if you just want to play games and are on a budget.

Which is why my recommendation as to whether get a console or PC would never be the price, but the use case.

I fully agree. It's just that console killers have always existed in the PC space, with PC gamers saying why buy a console when you can get a PC for a similar price that can do everything else a PC can do and perform similarly in games.

This thread was just to say that's probably not gonna happen this time. 

Console killer is a stupid concept invented by PC fanboys and attacked by console fanboys. There is no point even going down that rabbit hole. PC will never be able to compete price/performance of a console. That's why we shouldn't try to stoop to a console's low level with a weak PC and rather highlight what can surpass the console. As far as I'm concerned every PC, no matter how strong or how expensive, is a console killer because it can do things no console will ever be able to do.

At the end of the day, if you want a smartphone, you will buy a smartphone, no matter how cheap that mp3 player is.



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Might just buy a water block for my radeon VII, can get to 2080 levels. New cards are not going to give ultra 1440p/165 anyway.