Forums - Gaming Discussion - Phil Spencer Says Xbox Series X Games Aren't Being Held Back By Xbox One

eva01beserk said:
sales2099 said:

It’s not easy when the majority just blindly (arguably) agree with the market leader. That alone makes it a uphill battle from the start if you are from the competition. 

Imagine a company getting a hard time explaining how it wants to be pro consumer by not abandoning their current console base day 1 of next gen. To give them their games for just a little longer to ease into next gen. Bad, bad Microsoft. 

Phil explaining truths that have been evident for decades. How developers have made games for low end PCs and high end PCs without issue. 

but thats the thing, the competition has barely said anything. last they said anything of interest was like a month ago. But MS is still fighting like its getting Daily attacks from sony. Its almost on a daily basis that xbox team has some coment on how they are better in some way. After a point people get nervous and wonder why are they so defensive and are gona start questioning if theres any truth to it. The best they can do is just shut up and show games. 

From my point of view he’s aware of what the gamers are saying and responding to them. Core gamer mindshare going into next gen is important.

Because after all, we do talk about these things and dissect every quote. He wants to ideally shape the narrative when people take apart his quotes. Naturally he says things that the other side cherry picks and makes suit their narrative. Tale as old as time. 

Overall they are doing something that’s pro consumer and it’s a shame they getting blowback. And waiting for the 23rd is frustrating to say the least lol. 

Last edited by sales2099 - on 10 July 2020

 

 

Around the Network
JRPGfan said:
hinch said:
I'm pretty sure having games designed to work on Jaguar cores or slow ass laptop HDD vs SSD would limit game design in some way or another.

So much this. Its a lie plain and simple.
They should just be honest about it, and say, dont worry guys "It'll only last 2 years time or so, then we develope for the series X".

Its obviously gonna effect the 1st part games of the series x.

Oh, so you like honesty, eh?

Let's see, hmm... Jim Ryan said: "it is time to give the PlayStation community something new, something different, that can really only be enjoyed on PS5."

I guess that means that it would be impossible to run Spiderman: MM on PS4 even though is using the exact same engine as the previous entry. I mean, maybe they are ADDING so much more details to this one that it would be just impossible to turn off said details to make it run on PS4.

Oh! and I can totally see how Sackboy would be just impossible to run on PS4 as well.

Oh! and btw, I guess we can totally see how the X1 is holding back the development for Flight Simulator.



Can this dude just shut the fuck up for a month please , just a month without doing the same old bs PR talk.



 

It will be hard to sell your Xbox SEX advantages over the PS5 when you are at the same time arguing that your last gen and new gen are this compatible.



Nintendo is selling their IPs to Microsoft and this is true because:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=221391&page=1

sales2099 said:
eva01beserk said:

but thats the thing, the competition has barely said anything. last they said anything of interest was like a month ago. But MS is still fighting like its getting Daily attacks from sony. Its almost on a daily basis that xbox team has some coment on how they are better in some way. After a point people get nervous and wonder why are they so defensive and are gona start questioning if theres any truth to it. The best they can do is just shut up and show games. 

From my point of view he’s aware of what the gamers are saying and responding to them. Core gamer mindshare going into next gen is important.

Because after all, we do talk about these things and dissect every quote. He wants to ideally shape the narrative when people take apart his quotes. Naturally he says things that the other side cherry picks and makes suit their narrative. Tale as old as time. 

Overall they are doing something that’s pro consumer and it’s a shame they getting blowback. And waiting for the 23rd is frustrating to say the least lol. 

How is it pro consumer not to offer anything that's specifically made to showcase and can only be enjoyed on the shiny new console you just forked out $500 for. I find it anti early adopter tbh. Ideally there would be both, some cross-gen games and a bunch of new games that are specifically made for the new consoles taking full advantage of the SSD and improved CPU/GPU.

Early adopters want exclusive launch games. That's the main reason for being an early adopter. Exciting new games you could not experience on the old system. Not just the same stuff at higher res / fps with some extra effects.



Around the Network
AbbathTheGrim said:
It will be hard to sell your Xbox SEX advantages over the PS5 when you are at the same time arguing that your last gen and new gen are this compatible.

Well think about it this way. Ultimately the games do the talking.

Is Halo Infinite available on PlayStation? 

Repeat this question but change the game for everything they show at the July 23rd conference. The answer for all 1st party games you insert should lead to “no”. And if they look great on Series X, then I don’t see an issue :)

Disclaimer (read in fast disclaimer ad voice on tv): Doesn’t include games all ready locked to multiplatform release aka Wasteland 3, Psychonauts 2, and Minecraft/Minecraft Dungeons. 



 

 

SvennoJ said:
sales2099 said:

From my point of view he’s aware of what the gamers are saying and responding to them. Core gamer mindshare going into next gen is important.

Because after all, we do talk about these things and dissect every quote. He wants to ideally shape the narrative when people take apart his quotes. Naturally he says things that the other side cherry picks and makes suit their narrative. Tale as old as time. 

Overall they are doing something that’s pro consumer and it’s a shame they getting blowback. And waiting for the 23rd is frustrating to say the least lol. 

How is it pro consumer not to offer anything that's specifically made to showcase and can only be enjoyed on the shiny new console you just forked out $500 for. I find it anti early adopter tbh. Ideally there would be both, some cross-gen games and a bunch of new games that are specifically made for the new consoles taking full advantage of the SSD and improved CPU/GPU.

Early adopters want exclusive launch games. That's the main reason for being an early adopter. Exciting new games you could not experience on the old system. Not just the same stuff at higher res / fps with some extra effects.

Don’t know what to tell you. You can stick with your PC or Xbox One you all ready bought if you aren’t ready. Or you are forced to spend $500 on a new console. This goes double if you aren’t a early adopter. You think people who bought a PS4 in the last year or two are day 1 adopters? 

Bold: Halo Infinite is exclusive in that I can’t find it on PS. We both know that’s the only parameter that matters here. It’s also a Series X launch title. Also a new game when it releases. You have no idea how different it will be to the last gen version. Myself and many others don’t want to settle. We want the best version. That said:

https://twitter.com/xcloudtimdog/status/1276173499028078592?s=21

We will see plenty of games that will fall outside the cross gen window in the coming weeks.  

Last edited by sales2099 - on 10 July 2020

 

 

JRPGfan said:

He's talking about 2 differnt generations of devices.

Xbox One = 1,3 Tflops
Xbox series X = 12,1 Tflops (and newer architecture) , its CPU is like 5-6 times as powerfull as well.

How the hell, does developeing games for the old gen (xbox one) not limit the xbox series x (new gen)?
I call bullcrap, if your designing games from the ground up to run on the old gen hardware, its gonna limit what the game is, on the newer gen too.

its a lie, if so its only because they choose not to fully use the Xbox Series X (which I would call "limiting", or holding back).

5-6x CPU being more performant for next-gen is a bit of a low-ball.
Jaguar for example is 0.5x rate in AVX whilst Zen2 is 2x rate... Add in the clockspeed advantages, extra thread counts, efficiency gains and so forth... And there are gains of 8-10x or more.

There are some aspects which will be held back by the older consoles and some aspects that won't.

Developers have pretty much settled on a "formula" with game design which will not disappear over night, which lends itself to certain hardware characteristics.

In saying that, it also very much depends on the game... An indoor corridor shooter with moderate sized levels probably won't hold anything back... A massive, expansive open-world game with insane draw distances? That is an entirely different matter.

In short, nothing is as black and white as it initially seems.

JRPGfan said:

Yes because ~3% cpu speed differnce (off-set by playstation offloading tasks to dedicated hardware units that do the job instead) is such a HUGE differnce. Theres been devs saying they dont see a differnce between the two in this reguard.

I would hazard a guess the Xbox Series X will be taking a similar approach to the Xbox One X, where a heap of API calls will get offloaded to the command processor.

But you are right, on the CPU side of the equation, the differences are negligible, they exist, but it won't amount to much. - We may see more consistent framerates on the Xbox console at most.

JRPGfan said:

GPU wise? 10,3 tflops vs 12,1 tflops? common brah.
Thats like a ~17% differnce (or less), and again Playstation 5 has on the gpu side stuff that reduce the real world performance differnces between them.

Just like the SSD bandwidth, we need to account for the difference over time, it's extremely common to defer an operation over multiple cycles... So that 2~ teraflop difference can become a 6~ teraflop difference over multiple cycles, it's not insignificant.

And just like the SSD bandwidth, the bandwidth advantage on that front needs to be accounted for over time... Because the SSD just doesn't fill the Ram up in 3~ seconds and goes idle, it will continue to stream data over a period of time.

People are clinging to the black and white spec-sheet and up-playing/down-playing to conform to a certain narrative, the spec-sheets don't tell the entire story.

JRPGfan said:

Theres no situation, where a game developed to run on the xbox one X, will be held back by the playstation 5.
Thats some overreaching bullcrap logic.

Yeah. That is false logic. - The Playstation 5 is superior in every aspect.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 10 July 2020

--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

sales2099 said:
SvennoJ said:

How is it pro consumer not to offer anything that's specifically made to showcase and can only be enjoyed on the shiny new console you just forked out $500 for. I find it anti early adopter tbh. Ideally there would be both, some cross-gen games and a bunch of new games that are specifically made for the new consoles taking full advantage of the SSD and improved CPU/GPU.

Early adopters want exclusive launch games. That's the main reason for being an early adopter. Exciting new games you could not experience on the old system. Not just the same stuff at higher res / fps with some extra effects.

Don’t know what to tell you. You can stick with your PC or Xbox One you all ready bought if you aren’t ready. Or you are forced to spend $500 on a new console. This goes double if you aren’t a early adopter. You think people who bought a PS4 in the last year or two are day 1 adopters? 

Bold: Halo Infinite is exclusive in that I can’t find it on PS. We both know that’s the only parameter that matters here. It’s also a Series X launch title. Also a new game when it releases. You have no idea how different it will be to the last gen version. Myself and many others don’t want to settle. We want the best version. That said:

https://twitter.com/xcloudtimdog/status/1276173499028078592?s=21

We will see plenty of games that will fall outside the cross gen window in the coming weeks.  

It's the incentive to buy the new console which is missing. So yup, will stick with my gaming laptop. It already has a fast SSD and ran Forza Horizon 4 at max (or near max, not sure) settings at 60fps.

The thing is though, as long as there are not a couple exclusives I really want to play on a certain box, I won't buy that box, and thus also no multi platform games for that box, and thus also not buy live gold again or any of the other things on offer. Nor will I be all that impressed seeing the games run scaled down on my laptop in LDR at 1080p, but it will be enough not to spend $500 on an extra box. It's the same reason why I abandoned the GPU upgrade race on PC, why spend the extra money if it won't get fully utilized anyway and I can play the watered down version just fine.

Perhaps they will come later, yet then there's still Lockhart which will likely ensure that all games next gen will be fine on a 1080p gaming laptop as well. I rather play on console, but not going to pay twice for the same thing.



Well, we will see July 23.

how will XSX games look in comparison to their XBO versions? How will they look compared to PS5 games?

until then there's no way of knowing if he is overselling. But no need to assume he is straight up lying (granted I doubt he would say otherwise)