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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Phil Spencer Says Xbox Series X Games Aren't Being Held Back By Xbox One

nvm

Last edited by hinch - on 11 July 2020

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Rest easy guys. Only a couple more weeks until we get to see how much Xbox One is going to hold Series X back. No need to say anything now that might age like fine milk.



goopy20 said:

The fact that first party exclusives look better than multiplatform games proves exactly why the Xbox One will be holding Series X back. 

Ps5 games will potentially be build from the ground up to take advantage of features that aren't in the ps4, like the SSD, and a 10 times more powerful cpu and gpu. It simply allows developers to be far more ambitious with their ideas than if they constantly have to think "will this run on a HDD and a Jaguar cpu too?"

In the end, that advantage will be only a tiny fraction of the PS5 game library... how many PS5 exclusive games built from ground up with nextgen in mind do you expect for this and next year? A handful? A dozen?

Third parties are free to choose between still supporting XBO right from the start.

Crossgen third party games on XBO + XBS will probably also be crossgen on PS4 + PS5... and the XBS X will probably be the prettiest console version.  

Nextgen third party games on XBS + PS5 without current gen support will probably also have the prettiest console version on XBS X.

Most unannounced first-party games of all the Xbox Studios (so games planned for launch in 2022 and later) will also be built from the ground up for the new consoles, same as PS5 games in development planned for launch in 2022 and later.

So in 2020 - 2021 most console games will already look better on XBS X than on PS5, no matter if they are crossgen or nextgen only while only a few PS5 exclusives can stand out.

Last edited by Conina - on 11 July 2020

I'm sorry, but he's lying.

Well... maybe not, but only if the game was built for the Xbox One first then ported over/scaled for the series X. You can't do it the other way round though, its physically impossible to do without then having to pretty much build a different game internally.

If only looking at graphics, and nothing else, ten that can scale, it may just mean that you have versions of the game running at like 540p or something, but its scaling. But when talking about things like level design, game logic, and complexity... then NO. You cannot only scale things like that so much before having built-in things into your game to accommodate what you are trying to do. Like a corridor existing on the XB1 that doesn't exist in the XSX version of the game.



Pemalite said:
goopy20 said:

The fact that first party exclusives look better than multiplatform games proves exactly why the Xbox One will be holding Series X back. 

Ps5 games will potentially be build from the ground up to take advantage of features that aren't in the ps4, like the SSD, and a 10 times more powerful cpu and gpu. It simply allows developers to be far more ambitious with their ideas than if they constantly have to think "will this run on a HDD and a Jaguar cpu too?"

Of course loads of things are scalable on the gpu side but even that has its limits. The Xbox One's gpu is comparable to a GTX750, but try running something like RDR2 on a GTX730. It's simply impossible. Even in 360p at the lowest settings it will run at like 12fps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krpUAvlMqxE

Keep in mind there are multiple variants of the Geforce GT 730.
Some with DDR3, some with GDDR5, some based on the 28nm Kepler, some based on the 40nm Fermi with 1/4th of the CUDA cores.

Even the GDDR5 variant was a shit GPU on release... Clearly he is bandwidth limited in those benchmarks.

The GTX 750 however is a big step up over the Xbox One's Radeon 7750~ level GPU.
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1140?vs=1131


I know but I'm just trying to point out that there are limits to scaling on the gpu when you have a developer going with the best bang for the buck on the higher-end gpu. RDR2 Probably runs in about the same settings as the base console versions on a GTX750, but that doesn't mean it can still be played on a GTX730 in a respectable 30fps by scaling it down.

Eventually you hit a point where it will look like a completely different game and ruin the artistic vision behind it. If Rockstar wanted to support the GTX730, then the only way they could remedy that is to scale down the whole game across all platform until that 30fps is achievable in at least 720p on the weaker gpu.



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Conina said:
goopy20 said:

The fact that first party exclusives look better than multiplatform games proves exactly why the Xbox One will be holding Series X back. 

Ps5 games will potentially be build from the ground up to take advantage of features that aren't in the ps4, like the SSD, and a 10 times more powerful cpu and gpu. It simply allows developers to be far more ambitious with their ideas than if they constantly have to think "will this run on a HDD and a Jaguar cpu too?"

In the end, that advantage will be only a tiny fraction of the PS5 game library... how many PS5 exclusive games built from ground up with nextgen in mind do you expect for this and next year? A handful? A dozen?

Third parties are free to choose between still supporting XBO right from the start.

Crossgen third party games on XBO + XBS will probably also be crossgen on PS4 + PS5... and the XBS X will probably be the prettiest console version.  

Nextgen third party games on XBS + PS5 without current gen support will probably also have the prettiest console version on XBS X.

Most unannounced first-party games of all the Xbox Studios (so games planned for launch in 2022 and later) will also be built from the ground up for the new consoles, same as PS5 games in development planned for launch in 2022 and later.

So in 2020 - 2021 most console games will already look better on XBS X than on PS5, no matter if they are crossgen or nextgen only while only a few PS5 exclusives can stand out.

How the 3rd party developers will support both consoles we don't know yet. Both have their strengths and weaknesses and historically speaking, developers tend to favor the platform with the biggest installbase. But I'm talking more about the exclusives of both companies and what they will be showing early on. The first 2 years are kinda important as its when people are still deciding which console to buy.

Personally, I think the July event might the most important event in the history of the Xbox brand. After the May show, they really need to convince us that they're serious about supporting their next gen console by showing games that are unlike anything we believe to be possible on current gen. We know Sony will be bringing it and they already have another event planned for August. Definitely will be interesting to see how MS will react.  



goopy20 said:
Pemalite said:

Keep in mind there are multiple variants of the Geforce GT 730.
Some with DDR3, some with GDDR5, some based on the 28nm Kepler, some based on the 40nm Fermi with 1/4th of the CUDA cores.

Even the GDDR5 variant was a shit GPU on release... Clearly he is bandwidth limited in those benchmarks.

The GTX 750 however is a big step up over the Xbox One's Radeon 7750~ level GPU.
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1140?vs=1131


I know but I'm just trying to point out that there are limits to scaling on the gpu when you have a developer going with the best bang for the buck on the higher-end gpu. RDR2 Probably runs in about the same settings as the base console versions on a GTX750, but that doesn't mean it can still be played on a GTX730 in a respectable 30fps by scaling it down.

Eventually you hit a point where it will look like a completely different game and ruin the artistic vision behind it. If Rockstar wanted to support the GTX730, then the only way they could remedy that is to scale down the whole game across all platform until that 30fps is achievable in at least 720p on the weaker gpu.

Scaling downwards is always possible, but you are right, there comes a point where the artistic vision is compromised... Case in point: The Outerworlds on Switch.

In saying that, PC games don't get held back to much by weaker platforms, by the end of the 7th gen games like Battlefield 3 were looking a generation ahead visually... And even the Multiplayer portion on PC was far better with much larger player counts.

This generation the step up on PC verses console is a little less pronounced because the Xbox One X and Playstation 4 Pro adding an "iterative" step in between, it's muddied the waters, but there is still a significant step upwards, if you are happy to pay for it.

Same thing will occur next-gen, PC will be ahead of the Playstation 5 and Xbox Series X before they even launch, those consoles will start to show their age a few years into the console cycle, like every console cycle.

These days in 2020 game engines are designed to scale, many effects will scale as well, it's really a non issue... Up to a point.
Exclusives however will always showcase a platform in a better light than cross-generation or multi-plats for obvious reasons, but they won't look like they are on a completely new generational set of hardware.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

REDZONE said:

Lol there are some people who will believe anything this guy says.It's not just about graphics being able to scale up and down,the ssd's in the new console will literally change the designs of games.Any game built with those ssd's in mind will not run on last gen hardware so of course it will hold it back.


Mark Cerny and every other developer literally talked about how building a game with ssd's in mind changes the layout of the games.

And then they showed us those games and it turns out, nah, not so much.



He is right, that is the reason we don't need new hardware. kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk



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Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

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Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Pemalite said:
goopy20 said:

I know but I'm just trying to point out that there are limits to scaling on the gpu when you have a developer going with the best bang for the buck on the higher-end gpu. RDR2 Probably runs in about the same settings as the base console versions on a GTX750, but that doesn't mean it can still be played on a GTX730 in a respectable 30fps by scaling it down.

Eventually you hit a point where it will look like a completely different game and ruin the artistic vision behind it. If Rockstar wanted to support the GTX730, then the only way they could remedy that is to scale down the whole game across all platform until that 30fps is achievable in at least 720p on the weaker gpu.

Scaling downwards is always possible, but you are right, there comes a point where the artistic vision is compromised... Case in point: The Outerworlds on Switch.

In saying that, PC games don't get held back to much by weaker platforms, by the end of the 7th gen games like Battlefield 3 were looking a generation ahead visually... And even the Multiplayer portion on PC was far better with much larger player counts.

This generation the step up on PC verses console is a little less pronounced because the Xbox One X and Playstation 4 Pro adding an "iterative" step in between, it's muddied the waters, but there is still a significant step upwards, if you are happy to pay for it.

Same thing will occur next-gen, PC will be ahead of the Playstation 5 and Xbox Series X before they even launch, those consoles will start to show their age a few years into the console cycle, like every console cycle.

These days in 2020 game engines are designed to scale, many effects will scale as well, it's really a non issue... Up to a point.
Exclusives however will always showcase a platform in a better light than cross-generation or multi-plats for obvious reasons, but they won't look like they are on a completely new generational set of hardware.

There are definitely some exceptions like Shadow Hunter and BF3 where developers didn't compromise on the pc version. But generally speaking, aren't the pc games we play on high-end gpu's still designed around the limitations of the ps4/Xbox One hardware?

SSD has been around for a long time on pc but I have never played a game with zero loading times. I also think that when next gen starts, we'll finally see what a RTX2080 can really do, besides just running current gen games in 4k and 120fps.