By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Phil Spencer Says Xbox Series X Games Aren't Being Held Back By Xbox One

Pemalite on 11 July 2020
goopy20 said:
Pemalite said:

Keep in mind there are multiple variants of the Geforce GT 730.
Some with DDR3, some with GDDR5, some based on the 28nm Kepler, some based on the 40nm Fermi with 1/4th of the CUDA cores.

Even the GDDR5 variant was a shit GPU on release... Clearly he is bandwidth limited in those benchmarks.

The GTX 750 however is a big step up over the Xbox One's Radeon 7750~ level GPU.
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1140?vs=1131

I know but I'm just trying to point out that there are limits to scaling on the gpu when you have a developer going with the best bang for the buck on the higher-end gpu. RDR2 Probably runs in about the same settings as the base console versions on a GTX750, but that doesn't mean it can still be played on a GTX730 in a respectable 30fps by scaling it down.

Eventually you hit a point where it will look like a completely different game and ruin the artistic vision behind it. If Rockstar wanted to support the GTX730, then the only way they could remedy that is to scale down the whole game across all platform until that 30fps is achievable in at least 720p on the weaker gpu.

Scaling downwards is always possible, but you are right, there comes a point where the artistic vision is compromised... Case in point: The Outerworlds on Switch.

In saying that, PC games don't get held back to much by weaker platforms, by the end of the 7th gen games like Battlefield 3 were looking a generation ahead visually... And even the Multiplayer portion on PC was far better with much larger player counts.

This generation the step up on PC verses console is a little less pronounced because the Xbox One X and Playstation 4 Pro adding an "iterative" step in between, it's muddied the waters, but there is still a significant step upwards, if you are happy to pay for it.

Same thing will occur next-gen, PC will be ahead of the Playstation 5 and Xbox Series X before they even launch, those consoles will start to show their age a few years into the console cycle, like every console cycle.

These days in 2020 game engines are designed to scale, many effects will scale as well, it's really a non issue... Up to a point.
Exclusives however will always showcase a platform in a better light than cross-generation or multi-plats for obvious reasons, but they won't look like they are on a completely new generational set of hardware.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Around the Network
LudicrousSpeed on 11 July 2020
REDZONE said:

Lol there are some people who will believe anything this guy says.It's not just about graphics being able to scale up and down,the ssd's in the new console will literally change the designs of games.Any game built with those ssd's in mind will not run on last gen hardware so of course it will hold it back.


Mark Cerny and every other developer literally talked about how building a game with ssd's in mind changes the layout of the games.

And then they showed us those games and it turns out, nah, not so much.



DonFerrari on 11 July 2020

He is right, that is the reason we don't need new hardware. kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

goopy20 on 11 July 2020
Pemalite said:
goopy20 said:

I know but I'm just trying to point out that there are limits to scaling on the gpu when you have a developer going with the best bang for the buck on the higher-end gpu. RDR2 Probably runs in about the same settings as the base console versions on a GTX750, but that doesn't mean it can still be played on a GTX730 in a respectable 30fps by scaling it down.

Eventually you hit a point where it will look like a completely different game and ruin the artistic vision behind it. If Rockstar wanted to support the GTX730, then the only way they could remedy that is to scale down the whole game across all platform until that 30fps is achievable in at least 720p on the weaker gpu.

Scaling downwards is always possible, but you are right, there comes a point where the artistic vision is compromised... Case in point: The Outerworlds on Switch.

In saying that, PC games don't get held back to much by weaker platforms, by the end of the 7th gen games like Battlefield 3 were looking a generation ahead visually... And even the Multiplayer portion on PC was far better with much larger player counts.

This generation the step up on PC verses console is a little less pronounced because the Xbox One X and Playstation 4 Pro adding an "iterative" step in between, it's muddied the waters, but there is still a significant step upwards, if you are happy to pay for it.

Same thing will occur next-gen, PC will be ahead of the Playstation 5 and Xbox Series X before they even launch, those consoles will start to show their age a few years into the console cycle, like every console cycle.

These days in 2020 game engines are designed to scale, many effects will scale as well, it's really a non issue... Up to a point.
Exclusives however will always showcase a platform in a better light than cross-generation or multi-plats for obvious reasons, but they won't look like they are on a completely new generational set of hardware.

There are definitely some exceptions like Shadow Hunter and BF3 where developers didn't compromise on the pc version. But generally speaking, aren't the pc games we play on high-end gpu's still designed around the limitations of the ps4/Xbox One hardware?

SSD has been around for a long time on pc but I have never played a game with zero loading times. I also think that when next gen starts, we'll finally see what a RTX2080 can really do, besides just running current gen games in 4k and 120fps.



goopy20 on 11 July 2020
LudicrousSpeed said:
REDZONE said:

Lol there are some people who will believe anything this guy says.It's not just about graphics being able to scale up and down,the ssd's in the new console will literally change the designs of games.Any game built with those ssd's in mind will not run on last gen hardware so of course it will hold it back.


Mark Cerny and every other developer literally talked about how building a game with ssd's in mind changes the layout of the games.

And then they showed us those games and it turns out, nah, not so much.

In all honesty, we haven't seen nothing yet. Sony has just showed us some glimpses and a Ratchet&Clank game. Doesn't mean Cerny and all the developers freaking out over the SSD tech are lying, though. And it definitely doesn't mean these next gen consoles and high-end pc aren't capable of doing a lot more than just running current gen games with a bump in resolution and framerates.

Last edited by goopy20 - on 11 July 2020

Around the Network
chakkra on 11 July 2020
goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

Don’t know what to tell you. You can stick with your PC or Xbox One you all ready bought if you aren’t ready. Or you are forced to spend $500 on a new console. This goes double if you aren’t a early adopter. You think people who bought a PS4 in the last year or two are day 1 adopters? 

Bold: Halo Infinite is exclusive in that I can’t find it on PS. We both know that’s the only parameter that matters here. It’s also a Series X launch title. Also a new game when it releases. You have no idea how different it will be to the last gen version. Myself and many others don’t want to settle. We want the best version. That said:

https://twitter.com/xcloudtimdog/status/1276173499028078592?s=21

We will see plenty of games that will fall outside the cross gen window in the coming weeks.  

Maybe that's the only parameter that matters for fanboys. But Halo not being on ps5 is just a business decision, whereas Horizon Zero West being exclusive to the ps5 is a design decision. Big difference there in how far the developers can potentially take their ambitions.

The truth is that MS is too busy being all consumer friendly that they ARE forgetting the people who are excited about next gen. You know the people who want to see exciting new games, conceived to be impossible on current gen. I get what you're saying and that you won't settle for anything less than the best version of Halo Infinite. But how many people bought a X1X or a high-end gpu to play the best version of base console games? 

There simply is a difference between a generational jump we typically see when new consoles come out, and scalable graphics like we see on pc. This is the difference.

It always amazes me how you can say such things with such confidence without actually seeing the games. I mean, what exactly on that HZD trailer made you think that it would be impossible for it to run on PS4? Because all I saw there was more details in vegetation, textures, reflections a draw distance; you know.. graphics? (and it didn't even look like a generational leap graphically speaking).

And I would also love to see what are those "design choices" that make Spiderman, Sackboy and GT7 impossible to run on PS4.

And you know what? maybe is because I'm not an early adopter that I'm able to see things from a different perspective but, no matter how much Sony wants it, no more than 25m people will be able to buy the PS5 in the first year. That means at least 90m PS4 owners won't even have the option to play those games just because Sony decided to lock them to the PS5 and use this "oh, these are new experiences only possible on PS5" PR even though is plain as day (for anyone who is not willingly closing their eyes) that those games can indeed be played on PS4.



REDZONE on 11 July 2020
LudicrousSpeed said:
REDZONE said:

Lol there are some people who will believe anything this guy says.It's not just about graphics being able to scale up and down,the ssd's in the new console will literally change the designs of games.Any game built with those ssd's in mind will not run on last gen hardware so of course it will hold it back.


Mark Cerny and every other developer literally talked about how building a game with ssd's in mind changes the layout of the games.

And then they showed us those games and it turns out, nah, not so much.

Yup Rachet and Clank streaming entire  worlds in an instant or are you telling me ps4 and Xbox one are able to do the same?



goopy20 on 11 July 2020
chakkra said:
goopy20 said:

Maybe that's the only parameter that matters for fanboys. But Halo not being on ps5 is just a business decision, whereas Horizon Zero West being exclusive to the ps5 is a design decision. Big difference there in how far the developers can potentially take their ambitions.

The truth is that MS is too busy being all consumer friendly that they ARE forgetting the people who are excited about next gen. You know the people who want to see exciting new games, conceived to be impossible on current gen. I get what you're saying and that you won't settle for anything less than the best version of Halo Infinite. But how many people bought a X1X or a high-end gpu to play the best version of base console games? 

There simply is a difference between a generational jump we typically see when new consoles come out, and scalable graphics like we see on pc. This is the difference.

It always amazes me how you can say such things with such confidence without actually seeing the games. I mean, what exactly on that HZD trailer made you think that it would be impossible for it to run on PS4? Because all I saw there was more details in vegetation, textures, reflections a draw distance; you know.. graphics? (and it didn't even look like a generational leap graphically speaking).

And I would also love to see what are those "design choices" that make Spiderman, Sackboy and GT7 impossible to run on PS4.

And you know what? maybe is because I'm not an early adopter that I'm able to see things from a different perspective but, no matter how much Sony wants it, no more than 25m people will be able to buy the PS5 in the first year. That means at least 90m PS4 owners won't even have the option to play those games just because Sony decided to lock them to the PS5 and use this "oh, these are new experiences only possible on PS5" PR even though is plain as day (for anyone who is not willingly closing their eyes) that those games can indeed be played on PS4.

Because the old consoles hitting a wall is the whole point of releasing new ones. Why would Sony leave behind 100m customers and start from scratch if the ps4 can do everything the ps5 can? 

It's Sony's job to show us why we should upgrade and get us excited. They haven't shown us a lot but I'm sure they got that part covered. MS should be doing the same if the Series X has any sort of priority for them, but this has practically been MS marketing messaging so far..

MS: Buy our 12Tflops beastly console!

Also MS: Or not...



DonFerrari on 11 July 2020
SvennoJ said:
sales2099 said:

From my point of view he’s aware of what the gamers are saying and responding to them. Core gamer mindshare going into next gen is important.

Because after all, we do talk about these things and dissect every quote. He wants to ideally shape the narrative when people take apart his quotes. Naturally he says things that the other side cherry picks and makes suit their narrative. Tale as old as time. 

Overall they are doing something that’s pro consumer and it’s a shame they getting blowback. And waiting for the 23rd is frustrating to say the least lol. 

How is it pro consumer not to offer anything that's specifically made to showcase and can only be enjoyed on the shiny new console you just forked out $500 for. I find it anti early adopter tbh. Ideally there would be both, some cross-gen games and a bunch of new games that are specifically made for the new consoles taking full advantage of the SSD and improved CPU/GPU.

Early adopters want exclusive launch games. That's the main reason for being an early adopter. Exciting new games you could not experience on the old system. Not just the same stuff at higher res / fps with some extra effects.

I have over 75 physical games and almost 400 digital games on PS4 (which in total have over 4000 titles released), while the average gamer buy 10 games.

So I don't need any new games being released on PS4... on PS5 I have exactly 0 games so yes I need games to be released for it so I can enjoy it at launch.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Conina on 11 July 2020
REDZONE said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

And then they showed us those games and it turns out, nah, not so much.

Yup Rachet and Clank streaming entire  worlds in an instant or are you telling me ps4 and Xbox one are able to do the same?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai3o0XtrnM8

If Sony wanted to do a PS4 version of "Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart", the whole sequence between 01:03 and 01:33 could be replaced with playing a prerendered cutscene while loading the pirate level in the background in that half minute.

Additionally 0:00 - 0:54 could be played as prerendered 4K-video on PS4 in the same quality (or better) as the ingame engine of PS5... there is no interaction in that scene.

Additionally 1:46 - 2:10 could be played as prerendered 4K-video on PS4 in the same quality (or better) as the ingame engine of PS5... there is no interaction in that scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiImwSE2RuQ

Jumping to different positions within the same level. Should have been also be possible on PS4. It's not the first game where you can jump through portals to other points in the same level or where you switch between two "realities" (so two versions of a level):  Prey (2006), Portal (2007), Portal 2 (2011), Quantum Break (2016)...

Last edited by Conina - on 11 July 2020