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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Phil Spencer Says Xbox Series X Games Aren't Being Held Back By Xbox One

LudicrousSpeed on 11 July 2020
goopy20 said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

And then they showed us those games and it turns out, nah, not so much.

In all honesty, we haven't seen nothing yet. Sony has just showed us some glimpses and a Ratchet&Clank game. Doesn't mean Cerny and all the developers freaking out over the SSD tech are lying, though. And it definitely doesn't mean these next gen consoles and high-end pc aren't capable of doing a lot more than just running current gen games with a bump in resolution and framerates.

I’m sure when we’re years into the gen well start to see actual next gen games. And luckily for people like you who are perpetually worried about XSX being held back by Xbone, MS won’t be supporting the Xbone with all games after 2021.

But yeah I agree, I saw nothing in the PS5 event that blew me away either.



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DonFerrari on 11 July 2020
goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

Wasn’t aware Halo Infinite won’t be exciting or a new game when it launches...please tell me more. And I find it hard to believe games like Spiderman MM and GT7 are impossible on PS4. How about Destruction Derby and Sackboy??? You can’t lean on just Horizon 2 and Ratchet Sony doing similar tactics overall. 

I figure the games themselves would be the draw. You know...the very same reason PS fans tell us constantly. That the exclusive games did the talking and not their specs? Just using your own peoples argument back at you. And if you a late adopter you aren’t left behind day 1. Simple. 

Otherwise people can easily get the console for the investment knowing of what’s to come. PS4 didn’t sell crazy good in the first year because they couldn’t get enough of Knack and Killzone. I don’t recall there being shortages of either game and both games lighting up the charts for months. People got in early for what’s exclusive to the brand and what’s to come. Again using PS history in my favour. 

I'm not saying Infinite won't be exciting, I have no doubt it will be awesome. But lets face it, after Sony's event, people are now having super high expectation for the 23rd. We don't want Infinite to just be a good Xbox One game that looks better on Series X, we expect it be blown away with jaw dropping next gen visuals. We'll see soon enough but I just don't see how Halo will deliver on that front when it's designed around the Xone's limitations. And it will likely be the same with all their other cross-gen 1st party games. Keep in mind that the 23rd isn't a Series X event, it's a Xbox event.

GT7 didn't look like a generational leap over GT Sports so I give you that. Spider Man we don't really know as I didn't see a whole lot of clear gameplay there. So yes, that only leaves me with Ratchet & Clank and Horizon Zero West. That doesn't mean Sony isn't going to show us more, though. And it also doesn't change the fact that all of Sony's studios are working on ps5 exclusives. 

We might not know when we will see them, but we do know that when SM and ND's new games show up they'll be designed to take 100% advantage of the ps5. With MS things are simply different. We're getting cross-gen titles for the first 2 years and after that we have no clue how far they'll be able to push Series X. Even after they drop support for Xone, they'll still have to consider the specs of Lockhart and the average gaming pc. How long will it take till developers can stop supporting HDD on pc? And how long till something like a RTX2080 becomes standard on pc?

Until average consumer pc's catches up with these next gen consoles, all of MS's exclusives will have to designed around HDD and common gpu's like the GTX1060 or lower. Just look at Scorn. It's a next gen console exclusive on Series X but that doesn't mean it requires beastly specs. It doesn't say anything about a SSD for example and the recommended specs are a GTX970: https://store.steampowered.com/app/698670/Scorn/ Same thing with most of Sony's console exclusives like God Fall by the way.

DF would disagree from you due to the RayTracing being used.



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goopy20 on 11 July 2020
DonFerrari said:
goopy20 said:

I'm not saying Infinite won't be exciting, I have no doubt it will be awesome. But lets face it, after Sony's event, people are now having super high expectation for the 23rd. We don't want Infinite to just be a good Xbox One game that looks better on Series X, we expect it be blown away with jaw dropping next gen visuals. We'll see soon enough but I just don't see how Halo will deliver on that front when it's designed around the Xone's limitations. And it will likely be the same with all their other cross-gen 1st party games. Keep in mind that the 23rd isn't a Series X event, it's a Xbox event.

GT7 didn't look like a generational leap over GT Sports so I give you that. Spider Man we don't really know as I didn't see a whole lot of clear gameplay there. So yes, that only leaves me with Ratchet & Clank and Horizon Zero West. That doesn't mean Sony isn't going to show us more, though. And it also doesn't change the fact that all of Sony's studios are working on ps5 exclusives. 

We might not know when we will see them, but we do know that when SM and ND's new games show up they'll be designed to take 100% advantage of the ps5. With MS things are simply different. We're getting cross-gen titles for the first 2 years and after that we have no clue how far they'll be able to push Series X. Even after they drop support for Xone, they'll still have to consider the specs of Lockhart and the average gaming pc. How long will it take till developers can stop supporting HDD on pc? And how long till something like a RTX2080 becomes standard on pc?

Until average consumer pc's catches up with these next gen consoles, all of MS's exclusives will have to designed around HDD and common gpu's like the GTX1060 or lower. Just look at Scorn. It's a next gen console exclusive on Series X but that doesn't mean it requires beastly specs. It doesn't say anything about a SSD for example and the recommended specs are a GTX970: https://store.steampowered.com/app/698670/Scorn/ Same thing with most of Sony's console exclusives like God Fall by the way.

DF would disagree from you due to the RayTracing being used.

Ray Tracing does look like a thing that could make the Series X version stand out from the Xone version. Not really sure to be honest as we've seen some pretty different results on the RTX games. Metro really makes good use of it while in other games it's just some extra reflections that aren't that noticeable. I would love to see Path tracing, though. That would truly be a game changer.



SvennoJ on 11 July 2020
sales2099 said:

Great sounds like you all ready in the ecosystem you don’t need to upgrade right away. And you won’t be left behind either. God knows there’s plenty early adopters to go around at launch. 

Sure, if going from investing over $2000 on 360 HW and games, to $31 (wired 360 controller and 1 month game pass) last gen is good enough for MS to keep making games, then great!

I'll spend that $2000 budget on a nice new gaming laptop in a few years. No point in going back to XBox. Phil has convinced me that's the better deal.



chakkra on 11 July 2020
goopy20 said:
chakkra said:

It always amazes me how you can say such things with such confidence without actually seeing the games. I mean, what exactly on that HZD trailer made you think that it would be impossible for it to run on PS4? Because all I saw there was more details in vegetation, textures, reflections a draw distance; you know.. graphics? (and it didn't even look like a generational leap graphically speaking).

And I would also love to see what are those "design choices" that make Spiderman, Sackboy and GT7 impossible to run on PS4.

And you know what? maybe is because I'm not an early adopter that I'm able to see things from a different perspective but, no matter how much Sony wants it, no more than 25m people will be able to buy the PS5 in the first year. That means at least 90m PS4 owners won't even have the option to play those games just because Sony decided to lock them to the PS5 and use this "oh, these are new experiences only possible on PS5" PR even though is plain as day (for anyone who is not willingly closing their eyes) that those games can indeed be played on PS4.

Because the old consoles hitting a wall is the whole point of releasing new ones. Why would Sony leave behind 100m customers and start from scratch if the ps4 can do everything the ps5 can? 

It's Sony's job to show us why we should upgrade and get us excited. They haven't shown us a lot but I'm sure they got that part covered. MS should be doing the same if the Series X has any sort of priority for them, but this has practically been MS marketing messaging so far..

MS: Buy our 12Tflops beastly console!

Also MS: Or not...

Well, I don't think the PS4 hit its wall to the point that it would not be able to play those games, but hey, if you are excited for those games that Sony decided were going to be playable only on PS5 (even though they could totally be playable on PS4) then I say go for it. It is not my place to tell you what you should or should not be excited about. What I don't understand is how you have felt the need to go on this 6-months crusade trying to convince everybody else that they should not be excited about the XSX.



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REDZONE on 11 July 2020
Conina said:
REDZONE said:

Yup Rachet and Clank streaming entire  worlds in an instant or are you telling me ps4 and Xbox one are able to do the same?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai3o0XtrnM8

If Sony wanted to do a PS4 version of "Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart", the whole sequence between 01:03 and 01:33 could be replaced with playing a prerendered cutscene while loading the pirate level in the background in that half minute.

Additionally 0:00 - 0:54 could be played as prerendered 4K-video on PS4 in the same quality (or better) as the ingame engine of PS5... there is no interaction in that scene.

Additionally 1:46 - 2:10 could be played as prerendered 4K-video on PS4 in the same quality (or better) as the ingame engine of PS5... there is no interaction in that scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiImwSE2RuQ

Jumping to different positions within the same level. Should have been also be possible on PS4. It's not the first game where you can jump through portals to other points in the same level or where you switch between two "realities" (so two versions of a level):  Prey (2006), Portal (2007), Portal 2 (2011), Quantum Break (2016)...

You're not jumping in the same level though. It's a completely different world.As soon as you talk about omitting things you are talking about change game designs,so it's not the same game. The whole aspect of the game is jumping from one world to the next on the fly.So no it's not possible on current generation because of the SSD.

Please people go and listen to actual developers talk about the massive difference in designing a game for ssd vs hdd.



sales2099 on 11 July 2020
goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

Wasn’t aware Halo Infinite won’t be exciting or a new game when it launches...please tell me more. And I find it hard to believe games like Spiderman MM and GT7 are impossible on PS4. How about Destruction Derby and Sackboy??? You can’t lean on just Horizon 2 and Ratchet Sony doing similar tactics overall. 

I figure the games themselves would be the draw. You know...the very same reason PS fans tell us constantly. That the exclusive games did the talking and not their specs? Just using your own peoples argument back at you. And if you a late adopter you aren’t left behind day 1. Simple. 

Otherwise people can easily get the console for the investment knowing of what’s to come. PS4 didn’t sell crazy good in the first year because they couldn’t get enough of Knack and Killzone. I don’t recall there being shortages of either game and both games lighting up the charts for months. People got in early for what’s exclusive to the brand and what’s to come. Again using PS history in my favour. 

I'm not saying Infinite won't be exciting, I have no doubt it will be awesome. But lets face it, after Sony's event, people are now having super high expectation for the 23rd. We don't want Infinite to just be a good Xbox One game that looks better on Series X, we expect it be blown away with jaw dropping next gen visuals. We'll see soon enough but I just don't see how Halo will deliver on that front when it's designed around the Xone's limitations. And it will likely be the same with all their other cross-gen 1st party games. Keep in mind that the 23rd isn't a Series X event, it's a Xbox event.

GT7 didn't look like a generational leap over GT Sports so I give you that. Spider Man we don't really know as I didn't see a whole lot of clear gameplay there. So yes, that only leaves me with Ratchet & Clank and Horizon Zero West. That doesn't mean Sony isn't going to show us more, though. And it also doesn't change the fact that all of Sony's studios are working on ps5 exclusives. 

We might not know when we will see them, but we do know that when SM and ND's new games show up they'll be designed to take 100% advantage of the ps5. With MS things are simply different. We're getting cross-gen titles for the first 2 years and after that we have no clue how far they'll be able to push Series X. Even after they drop support for Xone, they'll still have to consider the specs of Lockhart and the average gaming pc. How long will it take till developers can stop supporting HDD on pc? And how long till something like a RTX2080 becomes standard on pc?

Until average consumer pc's catches up with these next gen consoles, all of MS's exclusives will have to designed around HDD and common gpu's like the GTX1060 or lower. Just look at Scorn. It's a next gen console exclusive on Series X but that doesn't mean it requires beastly specs. It doesn't say anything about a SSD for example and the recommended specs are a GTX970: https://store.steampowered.com/app/698670/Scorn/ Same thing with most of Sony's console exclusives like God Fall by the way.

July 23 is about the games and new experiences. And no matter what you say I have no doubts that games like Halo Infinite or Hellblade 2 on Series X will look amazing. I will say as a Halo fan, we are far more concerned with the gameplay being good, less so the visuals. The Slipspace engine reveal trailer was enough to sell me on the graphics. 

Im just pointing out that MS can announce games that fall outside the cross gen window as well that Sony is ultimately in the exact same position at launch with those games I mentioned. We know of more games that are possible on PS4 then games that show a true generational leap. 

The rest is just you doing the same song and dance. It’s FUD and repetitive. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

goopy20 on 11 July 2020
chakkra said:
goopy20 said:

Because the old consoles hitting a wall is the whole point of releasing new ones. Why would Sony leave behind 100m customers and start from scratch if the ps4 can do everything the ps5 can? 

It's Sony's job to show us why we should upgrade and get us excited. They haven't shown us a lot but I'm sure they got that part covered. MS should be doing the same if the Series X has any sort of priority for them, but this has practically been MS marketing messaging so far..

MS: Buy our 12Tflops beastly console!

Also MS: Or not...

Well, I don't think the PS4 hit its wall to the point that it would not be able to play those games, but hey, if you are excited for those games that Sony decided were going to be playable only on PS5 (even though they could totally be playable on PS4) then I say go for it. It is not my place to tell you what you should or should not be excited about. What I don't understand is how you have felt the need to go on this 6-months crusade trying to convince everybody else that they should not be excited about the XSX.

Because a next console generation should be exciting. If you don't care and are fine with playing the same games we've been playing since 2013, then good for you. I do care about these things and so far all MS's been doing is dampen my enthusiasm whenever Phil gives another interview.

MAybe you've forgotten about the May event and it's still not entirely clear what MS is doing. But unless you'll be watching MS's 1st party stream in 120fps, you will maybe realize why their whole new consumer friendly strategy is pissing me off. Not saying everybody should share my opinion and maybe there are plenty of people who got excited after seeing Dirt 5 just because it's running in 120fps. I'm just saying these next gen consoles should be able to do a lot more exciting stuff then what Phil Spencer is telling us. 



sales2099 on 11 July 2020
goopy20 said:
chakkra said:

Because the old consoles hitting a wall is the whole point of releasing new ones. Why would Sony leave behind 100m customers and start from scratch if the ps4 can do everything the ps5 can? 

It's Sony's job to show us why we should upgrade and get us excited. They haven't shown us a lot but I'm sure they got that part covered. MS should be doing the same if the Series X has any sort of priority for them, but this has practically been MS marketing messaging so far..

MS: Buy our 12Tflops beastly console!

Also MS: Or not...

To be clear their launch lineup have more of a IP draw not a tech one. People would upgrade to play the next Spiderman game, not because it’s only possible on PS5 from a design standpoint.  There is a high chance it’s only possible because Sony limited it for business reasons, assuming this game is a standalone expansion that uses assets from the base game on PS4, which explains the short turnaround of 2 years. 

You are blatantly using a double standard. Halo Infinite “bad” because it’s cross gen but a cross gen Spiderman expansion “good” because why, Sony swept the totally doable PS4 port under the rug to create next gen demand? That’s what makes it ok...the lack of a formal official PS4 version???

Same goes for the others. Again Sackboy, Destruction Derby and GT7. You can’t cherry pick the true next gen games but dismiss the possibility Xbox will announce games that fall outside the cross gen window. Sony is not what you are painting them as where every game is 100% not possible on last gen. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Conina on 11 July 2020
REDZONE said:
Conina said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiImwSE2RuQ

Jumping to different positions within the same level. Should have been also be possible on PS4. It's not the first game where you can jump through portals to other points in the same level or where you switch between two "realities" (so two versions of a level):  Prey (2006), Portal (2007), Portal 2 (2011), Quantum Break (2016)...

You're not jumping in the same level though. It's a completely different world. As soon as you talk about omitting things you are talking about change game designs,so it's not the same game. The whole aspect of the game is jumping from one world to the next on the fly.So no it's not possible on current generation because of the SSD.

0:00 - 0:20: all small jumps within the same level, no SSD usage

0:20: fading between two different video clips, no SSD usage

0:20 - 0:55 no jumps, the purple portals aren't connected to a different level, no SSD usage

0:56: PROBABLY a completely different world (which could have preloaded in the background the last 30 seconds or minute in a PS4 version when done right), but maybe a different part of the same level (since we only saw small parts of the level before)

1:01: fading between two different video clips, no SSD usage

1:01 - 2:09  all small jumps within the same level, no SSD usage

So the ONLY demonstration of the SSD advantage in the whole video is ONE jump at 0:56, and even that ain't 100% sure. And they probably won't change the level every three minutes, since that could be confusing for many players. And annoying many players just to show off the new technology wouldn't be very wise.

That said: I'm an absolute Ratchet & Clank fan and that game alone is reason enough for me to buy a PS5. But we need to see much more footage of the game to judge the frequency of the jumps between worlds/levels and therefore the importance of the SSD in that game.