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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Phil Spencer Says Xbox Series X Games Aren't Being Held Back By Xbox One

Good luck, Phil.



My prediction in 2023.

SW: 27m

PS5: 24m

XBS: 12m

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goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

Don’t know what to tell you. You can stick with your PC or Xbox One you all ready bought if you aren’t ready. Or you are forced to spend $500 on a new console. This goes double if you aren’t a early adopter. You think people who bought a PS4 in the last year or two are day 1 adopters? 

Bold: Halo Infinite is exclusive in that I can’t find it on PS. We both know that’s the only parameter that matters here. It’s also a Series X launch title. Also a new game when it releases. You have no idea how different it will be to the last gen version. Myself and many others don’t want to settle. We want the best version. That said:

https://twitter.com/xcloudtimdog/status/1276173499028078592?s=21

We will see plenty of games that will fall outside the cross gen window in the coming weeks.  

Maybe that's the only parameter that matters for fanboys. But Halo not being on ps5 is just a business decision, whereas Horizon Zero West being exclusive to the ps5 is a design decision. Big difference there in how far the developers can potentially take their ambitions.

The truth is that MS is too busy being all consumer friendly that they ARE forgetting the people who are excited about next gen. You know the people who want to see exciting new games, conceived to be impossible on current gen. I get what you're saying and that you won't settle for anything less than the best version of Halo Infinite. But how many people bought a X1X or a high-end gpu to play the best version of base console games? 

There simply is a difference between a generational jump we typically see when new consoles come out, and scalable graphics like we see on pc. This is the difference.

Scalable graphics on pc and the mid-gen consoles are a lot more subtle. Obviously the resolution and framerate jump is noticeable when you're playing the game, but you're still getting the exact same game (same levels, ai, physics etc.) whether your playing on a 1,3TF Xbox One or a X1X/high-end pc. 

Wasn’t aware Halo Infinite won’t be exciting or a new game when it launches...please tell me more. And I find it hard to believe games like Spiderman MM and GT7 are impossible on PS4. How about Destruction Derby and Sackboy??? You can’t lean on just Horizon 2 and Ratchet Sony doing similar tactics overall. 

I figure the games themselves would be the draw. You know...the very same reason PS fans tell us constantly. That the exclusive games did the talking and not their specs? Just using your own peoples argument back at you. And if you a late adopter you aren’t left behind day 1. Simple. 

Otherwise people can easily get the console for the investment knowing of what’s to come. PS4 didn’t sell crazy good in the first year because they couldn’t get enough of Knack and Killzone. I don’t recall there being shortages of either game and both games lighting up the charts for months. People got in early for what’s exclusive to the brand and what’s to come. Again using PS history in my favour. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

goopy20 said:

The fact that first party exclusives look better than multiplatform games proves exactly why the Xbox One will be holding Series X back. 

Ps5 games will potentially be build from the ground up to take advantage of features that aren't in the ps4, like the SSD, and a 10 times more powerful cpu and gpu. It simply allows developers to be far more ambitious with their ideas than if they constantly have to think "will this run on a HDD and a Jaguar cpu too?"

Of course loads of things are scalable on the gpu side but even that has its limits. The Xbox One's gpu is comparable to a GTX750, but try running something like RDR2 on a GTX730. It's simply impossible. Even in 360p at the lowest settings it will run at like 12fps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krpUAvlMqxE

Keep in mind there are multiple variants of the Geforce GT 730.
Some with DDR3, some with GDDR5, some based on the 28nm Kepler, some based on the 40nm Fermi with 1/4th of the CUDA cores.

Even the GDDR5 variant was a shit GPU on release... Clearly he is bandwidth limited in those benchmarks.

The GTX 750 however is a big step up over the Xbox One's Radeon 7750~ level GPU.
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1140?vs=1131




--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

sales2099 said:
goopy20 said:

Maybe that's the only parameter that matters for fanboys. But Halo not being on ps5 is just a business decision, whereas Horizon Zero West being exclusive to the ps5 is a design decision. Big difference there in how far the developers can potentially take their ambitions.

The truth is that MS is too busy being all consumer friendly that they ARE forgetting the people who are excited about next gen. You know the people who want to see exciting new games, conceived to be impossible on current gen. I get what you're saying and that you won't settle for anything less than the best version of Halo Infinite. But how many people bought a X1X or a high-end gpu to play the best version of base console games? 

There simply is a difference between a generational jump we typically see when new consoles come out, and scalable graphics like we see on pc. This is the difference.

Scalable graphics on pc and the mid-gen consoles are a lot more subtle. Obviously the resolution and framerate jump is noticeable when you're playing the game, but you're still getting the exact same game (same levels, ai, physics etc.) whether your playing on a 1,3TF Xbox One or a X1X/high-end pc. 

Wasn’t aware Halo Infinite won’t be exciting or a new game when it launches...please tell me more. And I find it hard to believe games like Spiderman MM and GT7 are impossible on PS4. How about Destruction Derby and Sackboy??? You can’t lean on just Horizon 2 and Ratchet Sony doing similar tactics overall. 

I figure the games themselves would be the draw. You know...the very same reason PS fans tell us constantly. That the exclusive games did the talking and not their specs? Just using your own peoples argument back at you. And if you a late adopter you aren’t left behind day 1. Simple. 

Otherwise people can easily get the console for the investment knowing of what’s to come. PS4 didn’t sell crazy good in the first year because they couldn’t get enough of Knack and Killzone. I don’t recall there being shortages of either game and both games lighting up the charts for months. People got in early for what’s exclusive to the brand and what’s to come. Again using PS history in my favour. 

I'm not saying Infinite won't be exciting, I have no doubt it will be awesome. But lets face it, after Sony's event, people are now having super high expectation for the 23rd. We don't want Infinite to just be a good Xbox One game that looks better on Series X, we expect it be blown away with jaw dropping next gen visuals. We'll see soon enough but I just don't see how Halo will deliver on that front when it's designed around the Xone's limitations. And it will likely be the same with all their other cross-gen 1st party games. Keep in mind that the 23rd isn't a Series X event, it's a Xbox event.

GT7 didn't look like a generational leap over GT Sports so I give you that. Spider Man we don't really know as I didn't see a whole lot of clear gameplay there. So yes, that only leaves me with Ratchet & Clank and Horizon Zero West. That doesn't mean Sony isn't going to show us more, though. And it also doesn't change the fact that all of Sony's studios are working on ps5 exclusives. 

We might not know when we will see them, but we do know that when SM and ND's new games show up they'll be designed to take 100% advantage of the ps5. With MS things are simply different. We're getting cross-gen titles for the first 2 years and after that we have no clue how far they'll be able to push Series X. Even after they drop support for Xone, they'll still have to consider the specs of Lockhart and the average gaming pc. How long will it take till developers can stop supporting HDD on pc? And how long till something like a RTX2080 becomes standard on pc?

Until average consumer pc's catches up with these next gen consoles, all of MS's exclusives will have to designed around HDD and common gpu's like the GTX1060 or lower. Just look at Scorn. It's a next gen console exclusive on Series X but that doesn't mean it requires beastly specs. It doesn't say anything about a SSD for example and the recommended specs are a GTX970: https://store.steampowered.com/app/698670/Scorn/ Same thing with most of Sony's console exclusives like God Fall by the way.

Last edited by goopy20 - on 11 July 2020

nvm

Last edited by hinch - on 11 July 2020

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Rest easy guys. Only a couple more weeks until we get to see how much Xbox One is going to hold Series X back. No need to say anything now that might age like fine milk.



goopy20 said:

The fact that first party exclusives look better than multiplatform games proves exactly why the Xbox One will be holding Series X back. 

Ps5 games will potentially be build from the ground up to take advantage of features that aren't in the ps4, like the SSD, and a 10 times more powerful cpu and gpu. It simply allows developers to be far more ambitious with their ideas than if they constantly have to think "will this run on a HDD and a Jaguar cpu too?"

In the end, that advantage will be only a tiny fraction of the PS5 game library... how many PS5 exclusive games built from ground up with nextgen in mind do you expect for this and next year? A handful? A dozen?

Third parties are free to choose between still supporting XBO right from the start.

Crossgen third party games on XBO + XBS will probably also be crossgen on PS4 + PS5... and the XBS X will probably be the prettiest console version.  

Nextgen third party games on XBS + PS5 without current gen support will probably also have the prettiest console version on XBS X.

Most unannounced first-party games of all the Xbox Studios (so games planned for launch in 2022 and later) will also be built from the ground up for the new consoles, same as PS5 games in development planned for launch in 2022 and later.

So in 2020 - 2021 most console games will already look better on XBS X than on PS5, no matter if they are crossgen or nextgen only while only a few PS5 exclusives can stand out.

Last edited by Conina - on 11 July 2020

I'm sorry, but he's lying.

Well... maybe not, but only if the game was built for the Xbox One first then ported over/scaled for the series X. You can't do it the other way round though, its physically impossible to do without then having to pretty much build a different game internally.

If only looking at graphics, and nothing else, ten that can scale, it may just mean that you have versions of the game running at like 540p or something, but its scaling. But when talking about things like level design, game logic, and complexity... then NO. You cannot only scale things like that so much before having built-in things into your game to accommodate what you are trying to do. Like a corridor existing on the XB1 that doesn't exist in the XSX version of the game.



Pemalite said:
goopy20 said:

The fact that first party exclusives look better than multiplatform games proves exactly why the Xbox One will be holding Series X back. 

Ps5 games will potentially be build from the ground up to take advantage of features that aren't in the ps4, like the SSD, and a 10 times more powerful cpu and gpu. It simply allows developers to be far more ambitious with their ideas than if they constantly have to think "will this run on a HDD and a Jaguar cpu too?"

Of course loads of things are scalable on the gpu side but even that has its limits. The Xbox One's gpu is comparable to a GTX750, but try running something like RDR2 on a GTX730. It's simply impossible. Even in 360p at the lowest settings it will run at like 12fps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krpUAvlMqxE

Keep in mind there are multiple variants of the Geforce GT 730.
Some with DDR3, some with GDDR5, some based on the 28nm Kepler, some based on the 40nm Fermi with 1/4th of the CUDA cores.

Even the GDDR5 variant was a shit GPU on release... Clearly he is bandwidth limited in those benchmarks.

The GTX 750 however is a big step up over the Xbox One's Radeon 7750~ level GPU.
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1140?vs=1131


I know but I'm just trying to point out that there are limits to scaling on the gpu when you have a developer going with the best bang for the buck on the higher-end gpu. RDR2 Probably runs in about the same settings as the base console versions on a GTX750, but that doesn't mean it can still be played on a GTX730 in a respectable 30fps by scaling it down.

Eventually you hit a point where it will look like a completely different game and ruin the artistic vision behind it. If Rockstar wanted to support the GTX730, then the only way they could remedy that is to scale down the whole game across all platform until that 30fps is achievable in at least 720p on the weaker gpu.



Conina said:
goopy20 said:

The fact that first party exclusives look better than multiplatform games proves exactly why the Xbox One will be holding Series X back. 

Ps5 games will potentially be build from the ground up to take advantage of features that aren't in the ps4, like the SSD, and a 10 times more powerful cpu and gpu. It simply allows developers to be far more ambitious with their ideas than if they constantly have to think "will this run on a HDD and a Jaguar cpu too?"

In the end, that advantage will be only a tiny fraction of the PS5 game library... how many PS5 exclusive games built from ground up with nextgen in mind do you expect for this and next year? A handful? A dozen?

Third parties are free to choose between still supporting XBO right from the start.

Crossgen third party games on XBO + XBS will probably also be crossgen on PS4 + PS5... and the XBS X will probably be the prettiest console version.  

Nextgen third party games on XBS + PS5 without current gen support will probably also have the prettiest console version on XBS X.

Most unannounced first-party games of all the Xbox Studios (so games planned for launch in 2022 and later) will also be built from the ground up for the new consoles, same as PS5 games in development planned for launch in 2022 and later.

So in 2020 - 2021 most console games will already look better on XBS X than on PS5, no matter if they are crossgen or nextgen only while only a few PS5 exclusives can stand out.

How the 3rd party developers will support both consoles we don't know yet. Both have their strengths and weaknesses and historically speaking, developers tend to favor the platform with the biggest installbase. But I'm talking more about the exclusives of both companies and what they will be showing early on. The first 2 years are kinda important as its when people are still deciding which console to buy.

Personally, I think the July event might the most important event in the history of the Xbox brand. After the May show, they really need to convince us that they're serious about supporting their next gen console by showing games that are unlike anything we believe to be possible on current gen. We know Sony will be bringing it and they already have another event planned for August. Definitely will be interesting to see how MS will react.