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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Phil Spencer Says Xbox Series X Games Aren't Being Held Back By Xbox One

It's not an apple to apple comparison since u are comparing multiplatform game to first party exclusives. First party exclusives will look better than multiplats. 

Secondly u are comparing a late gen game to a early in game gen. Late gen multiplatbwill always look better as devs had more time to  learn the machines. 

Now a better comparisons would be last gen dragon age to xbox one and ps4 version of it. You would have noticed a massive difference in texture quality, shadows, performance, fov, lighting and so on. 

Remember ps4 and xbox one were not that powerful as it came with shitty cpu. 

Another comparison would be xbox one x version of rdr 2 vs xbox one version of rdr2. Xbox one x version is a significant upgrade in all areas including textures, Res, performance, shadow, lighting and so on. 

Another example would be shadow of the shadow of the tomb raider game. Xbox one x version of the game provided a significant upgrade then compared to xbox one version. 

Another example is halo 5. Halo5  on xbox one x provided the biggest upgrade then other x enhanced games and kept it at 4k locked 60fps which was impressive. 

Like I said its probably first party games will have engines that are highs scalable and they would make it form ground up for series x first and then scale down to xbox one. 

goopy20 said:

dane007 said:
It's not that hard to believe that especially if the games were built up for xbox series x from The start. Xbox one games will just be scaled back until the games can run on it. They just pair down all the settings.

If that's true then how come cross-gen titles have always been so underwhelming, especially compared to the games that skip previous gen?

Just compare Dragon Age Inquisition to something like RDR2, for example.

Or Killzone Shadowfall

 



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It inevitably will. If Witcher 3 was held back by current gen consoles of the time, of course the Xbox one will hold back things. Even if they approached it as 2 completely optimised ports, thats a stretch on resources which otherwise could have been poured into series X games. Either getting them out quicker or improving their fidelity. Outside of that the SSD should be informing game design.

This isn't a problem right out the gate though, I also don't think most of these Playstation 5 exclusive are built for the ground up for PS5 even if they end up skipping PS4 come release date. 

Last edited by Otter - on 10 July 2020

This is where a lot of people don't understand how Hardware works. Basically this approach is to be like a high end PC, meaning that the power is used to dress up games rather than create new ways on designing them, even though they can do that as well. Not all games need state of the art hardware to achieve what the developers have already in mind for a game. A good example is a Linear FPS game which does not need a super fast SSD in the XSX or PS5 to be made or does a general platformer etc. They can achieve what they have imagined on current hardware or even less. Just look at BOTW on the Switch which was created on WiiU hardware, no one is complaining about the design on that game being held back by the WiiU. Its completely up to the developers when it comes to designing good games not so much hardware.

PC hardware works very similar which is Phil's point. Play a 10 to 15 year old PC game and your high end PC hardware will decorate the game making it stand out and not only look better in all aspects with its graphic options but also feel and play better too. The hardware is not wasted, its just being used in other ways. Closed platforms like the next gen consoles means adding scaling options for consoles is going to be a regular thing hence the Cross buy options they are doing now with Cyberpunk and more.

Not one game have i seen yet on both Xbox and PS events where i cannot see them running on current gen XB1s and PS4s. Not all developers are going to take advantages and risks on creating new game designs, not yet anyways. However they can dress up and make older games look a lot better in the mean time, just like how PC's operate.



dane007 said:

It's not an apple to apple comparison since u are comparing multiplatform game to first party exclusives. First party exclusives will look better than multiplats. 

Secondly u are comparing a late gen game to a early in game gen. Late gen multiplatbwill always look better as devs had more time to  learn the machines. 

Now a better comparisons would be last gen dragon age to xbox one and ps4 version of it. You would have noticed a massive difference in texture quality, shadows, performance, fov, lighting and so on. 

Remember ps4 and xbox one were not that powerful as it came with shitty cpu. 

Another comparison would be xbox one x version of rdr 2 vs xbox one version of rdr2. Xbox one x version is a significant upgrade in all areas including textures, Res, performance, shadow, lighting and so on. 

Another example would be shadow of the shadow of the tomb raider game. Xbox one x version of the game provided a significant upgrade then compared to xbox one version. 

Another example is halo 5. Halo5  on xbox one x provided the biggest upgrade then other x enhanced games and kept it at 4k locked 60fps which was impressive. 

Like I said its probably first party games will have engines that are highs scalable and they would make it form ground up for series x first and then scale down to xbox one. 

goopy20 said:

If that's true then how come cross-gen titles have always been so underwhelming, especially compared to the games that skip previous gen?

Just compare Dragon Age Inquisition to something like RDR2, for example.

Or Killzone Shadowfall

 

The fact that first party exclusives look better than multiplatform games proves exactly why the Xbox One will be holding Series X back. 

Ps5 games will potentially be build from the ground up to take advantage of features that aren't in the ps4, like the SSD, and a 10 times more powerful cpu and gpu. It simply allows developers to be far more ambitious with their ideas than if they constantly have to think "will this run on a HDD and a Jaguar cpu too?"

Of course loads of things are scalable on the gpu side but even that has its limits. The Xbox One's gpu is comparable to a GTX750, but try running something like RDR2 on a GTX730. It's simply impossible. Even in 360p at the lowest settings it will run at like 12fps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krpUAvlMqxE

 



sales2099 said:
SvennoJ said:

How is it pro consumer not to offer anything that's specifically made to showcase and can only be enjoyed on the shiny new console you just forked out $500 for. I find it anti early adopter tbh. Ideally there would be both, some cross-gen games and a bunch of new games that are specifically made for the new consoles taking full advantage of the SSD and improved CPU/GPU.

Early adopters want exclusive launch games. That's the main reason for being an early adopter. Exciting new games you could not experience on the old system. Not just the same stuff at higher res / fps with some extra effects.

Don’t know what to tell you. You can stick with your PC or Xbox One you all ready bought if you aren’t ready. Or you are forced to spend $500 on a new console. This goes double if you aren’t a early adopter. You think people who bought a PS4 in the last year or two are day 1 adopters? 

Bold: Halo Infinite is exclusive in that I can’t find it on PS. We both know that’s the only parameter that matters here. It’s also a Series X launch title. Also a new game when it releases. You have no idea how different it will be to the last gen version. Myself and many others don’t want to settle. We want the best version. That said:

https://twitter.com/xcloudtimdog/status/1276173499028078592?s=21

We will see plenty of games that will fall outside the cross gen window in the coming weeks.  

Maybe that's the only parameter that matters for fanboys. But Halo not being on ps5 is just a business decision, whereas Horizon Zero West being exclusive to the ps5 is a design decision. Big difference there in how far the developers can potentially take their ambitions.

The truth is that MS is too busy being all consumer friendly that they ARE forgetting the people who are excited about next gen. You know the people who want to see exciting new games, conceived to be impossible on current gen. I get what you're saying and that you won't settle for anything less than the best version of Halo Infinite. But how many people bought a X1X or a high-end gpu to play the best version of base console games? 

There simply is a difference between a generational jump we typically see when new consoles come out, and scalable graphics like we see on pc. This is the difference.

Generational leap

And it's not just the graphics in this screenshot, it's about the entire scope and visual package of the game.

Scalable graphics on pc

Scalable graphics on pc and the mid-gen consoles are a lot more subtle. Obviously the resolution and framerate jump is noticeable when you're playing the game, but you're still getting the exact same game (same levels, ai, physics etc.) whether your playing on a 1,3TF Xbox One or a X1X/high-end pc. 



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SvennoJ said:
sales2099 said:

Don’t know what to tell you. You can stick with your PC or Xbox One you all ready bought if you aren’t ready. Or you are forced to spend $500 on a new console. This goes double if you aren’t a early adopter. You think people who bought a PS4 in the last year or two are day 1 adopters? 

Bold: Halo Infinite is exclusive in that I can’t find it on PS. We both know that’s the only parameter that matters here. It’s also a Series X launch title. Also a new game when it releases. You have no idea how different it will be to the last gen version. Myself and many others don’t want to settle. We want the best version. That said:

https://twitter.com/xcloudtimdog/status/1276173499028078592?s=21

We will see plenty of games that will fall outside the cross gen window in the coming weeks.  

It's the incentive to buy the new console which is missing. So yup, will stick with my gaming laptop. It already has a fast SSD and ran Forza Horizon 4 at max (or near max, not sure) settings at 60fps.

The thing is though, as long as there are not a couple exclusives I really want to play on a certain box, I won't buy that box, and thus also no multi platform games for that box, and thus also not buy live gold again or any of the other things on offer. Nor will I be all that impressed seeing the games run scaled down on my laptop in LDR at 1080p, but it will be enough not to spend $500 on an extra box. It's the same reason why I abandoned the GPU upgrade race on PC, why spend the extra money if it won't get fully utilized anyway and I can play the watered down version just fine.

Perhaps they will come later, yet then there's still Lockhart which will likely ensure that all games next gen will be fine on a 1080p gaming laptop as well. I rather play on console, but not going to pay twice for the same thing.

Great sounds like you all ready in the ecosystem you don’t need to upgrade right away. And you won’t be left behind either. God knows there’s plenty early adopters to go around at launch. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Good luck, Phil.



My prediction in 2021.

SW: 30m

PS5 16m

XBS: 7.5m

goopy20 said:
sales2099 said:

Don’t know what to tell you. You can stick with your PC or Xbox One you all ready bought if you aren’t ready. Or you are forced to spend $500 on a new console. This goes double if you aren’t a early adopter. You think people who bought a PS4 in the last year or two are day 1 adopters? 

Bold: Halo Infinite is exclusive in that I can’t find it on PS. We both know that’s the only parameter that matters here. It’s also a Series X launch title. Also a new game when it releases. You have no idea how different it will be to the last gen version. Myself and many others don’t want to settle. We want the best version. That said:

https://twitter.com/xcloudtimdog/status/1276173499028078592?s=21

We will see plenty of games that will fall outside the cross gen window in the coming weeks.  

Maybe that's the only parameter that matters for fanboys. But Halo not being on ps5 is just a business decision, whereas Horizon Zero West being exclusive to the ps5 is a design decision. Big difference there in how far the developers can potentially take their ambitions.

The truth is that MS is too busy being all consumer friendly that they ARE forgetting the people who are excited about next gen. You know the people who want to see exciting new games, conceived to be impossible on current gen. I get what you're saying and that you won't settle for anything less than the best version of Halo Infinite. But how many people bought a X1X or a high-end gpu to play the best version of base console games? 

There simply is a difference between a generational jump we typically see when new consoles come out, and scalable graphics like we see on pc. This is the difference.

Scalable graphics on pc and the mid-gen consoles are a lot more subtle. Obviously the resolution and framerate jump is noticeable when you're playing the game, but you're still getting the exact same game (same levels, ai, physics etc.) whether your playing on a 1,3TF Xbox One or a X1X/high-end pc. 

Wasn’t aware Halo Infinite won’t be exciting or a new game when it launches...please tell me more. And I find it hard to believe games like Spiderman MM and GT7 are impossible on PS4. How about Destruction Derby and Sackboy??? You can’t lean on just Horizon 2 and Ratchet Sony doing similar tactics overall. 

I figure the games themselves would be the draw. You know...the very same reason PS fans tell us constantly. That the exclusive games did the talking and not their specs? Just using your own peoples argument back at you. And if you a late adopter you aren’t left behind day 1. Simple. 

Otherwise people can easily get the console for the investment knowing of what’s to come. PS4 didn’t sell crazy good in the first year because they couldn’t get enough of Knack and Killzone. I don’t recall there being shortages of either game and both games lighting up the charts for months. People got in early for what’s exclusive to the brand and what’s to come. Again using PS history in my favour. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

goopy20 said:

The fact that first party exclusives look better than multiplatform games proves exactly why the Xbox One will be holding Series X back. 

Ps5 games will potentially be build from the ground up to take advantage of features that aren't in the ps4, like the SSD, and a 10 times more powerful cpu and gpu. It simply allows developers to be far more ambitious with their ideas than if they constantly have to think "will this run on a HDD and a Jaguar cpu too?"

Of course loads of things are scalable on the gpu side but even that has its limits. The Xbox One's gpu is comparable to a GTX750, but try running something like RDR2 on a GTX730. It's simply impossible. Even in 360p at the lowest settings it will run at like 12fps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krpUAvlMqxE

Keep in mind there are multiple variants of the Geforce GT 730.
Some with DDR3, some with GDDR5, some based on the 28nm Kepler, some based on the 40nm Fermi with 1/4th of the CUDA cores.

Even the GDDR5 variant was a shit GPU on release... Clearly he is bandwidth limited in those benchmarks.

The GTX 750 however is a big step up over the Xbox One's Radeon 7750~ level GPU.
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1140?vs=1131




--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

sales2099 said:
goopy20 said:

Maybe that's the only parameter that matters for fanboys. But Halo not being on ps5 is just a business decision, whereas Horizon Zero West being exclusive to the ps5 is a design decision. Big difference there in how far the developers can potentially take their ambitions.

The truth is that MS is too busy being all consumer friendly that they ARE forgetting the people who are excited about next gen. You know the people who want to see exciting new games, conceived to be impossible on current gen. I get what you're saying and that you won't settle for anything less than the best version of Halo Infinite. But how many people bought a X1X or a high-end gpu to play the best version of base console games? 

There simply is a difference between a generational jump we typically see when new consoles come out, and scalable graphics like we see on pc. This is the difference.

Scalable graphics on pc and the mid-gen consoles are a lot more subtle. Obviously the resolution and framerate jump is noticeable when you're playing the game, but you're still getting the exact same game (same levels, ai, physics etc.) whether your playing on a 1,3TF Xbox One or a X1X/high-end pc. 

Wasn’t aware Halo Infinite won’t be exciting or a new game when it launches...please tell me more. And I find it hard to believe games like Spiderman MM and GT7 are impossible on PS4. How about Destruction Derby and Sackboy??? You can’t lean on just Horizon 2 and Ratchet Sony doing similar tactics overall. 

I figure the games themselves would be the draw. You know...the very same reason PS fans tell us constantly. That the exclusive games did the talking and not their specs? Just using your own peoples argument back at you. And if you a late adopter you aren’t left behind day 1. Simple. 

Otherwise people can easily get the console for the investment knowing of what’s to come. PS4 didn’t sell crazy good in the first year because they couldn’t get enough of Knack and Killzone. I don’t recall there being shortages of either game and both games lighting up the charts for months. People got in early for what’s exclusive to the brand and what’s to come. Again using PS history in my favour. 

I'm not saying Infinite won't be exciting, I have no doubt it will be awesome. But lets face it, after Sony's event, people are now having super high expectation for the 23rd. We don't want Infinite to just be a good Xbox One game that looks better on Series X, we expect it be blown away with jaw dropping next gen visuals. We'll see soon enough but I just don't see how Halo will deliver on that front when it's designed around the Xone's limitations. And it will likely be the same with all their other cross-gen 1st party games. Keep in mind that the 23rd isn't a Series X event, it's a Xbox event.

GT7 didn't look like a generational leap over GT Sports so I give you that. Spider Man we don't really know as I didn't see a whole lot of clear gameplay there. So yes, that only leaves me with Ratchet & Clank and Horizon Zero West. That doesn't mean Sony isn't going to show us more, though. And it also doesn't change the fact that all of Sony's studios are working on ps5 exclusives. 

We might not know when we will see them, but we do know that when SM and ND's new games show up they'll be designed to take 100% advantage of the ps5. With MS things are simply different. We're getting cross-gen titles for the first 2 years and after that we have no clue how far they'll be able to push Series X. Even after they drop support for Xone, they'll still have to consider the specs of Lockhart and the average gaming pc. How long will it take till developers can stop supporting HDD on pc? And how long till something like a RTX2080 becomes standard on pc?

Until average consumer pc's catches up with these next gen consoles, all of MS's exclusives will have to designed around HDD and common gpu's like the GTX1060 or lower. Just look at Scorn. It's a next gen console exclusive on Series X but that doesn't mean it requires beastly specs. It doesn't say anything about a SSD for example and the recommended specs are a GTX970: https://store.steampowered.com/app/698670/Scorn/ Same thing with most of Sony's console exclusives like God Fall by the way.

Last edited by goopy20 - on 11 July 2020