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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

numberwang said:
JWeinCom said:

If you like to take joy in the misfortune others cause themselves, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/ which chronicles the Facebook/Twitter feeds of antivax/maskers as they fall to Covid. #sorrynotsorry

Wait till you hear it's mostly POCs who are unvaxxed...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/nyregion/covid-vaccine-black-young-new-yorkers.html

Why exactly would I give a fuck what color their skin is?

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 07 September 2021

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numberwang said:

So Israel is shooting a third round to flatten the curve and is preparing for the fourth round this year. After six months you will be considered unvaxxed again.

There were 607 "covid deaths" in August 2021 in Israel and 2/3 of these were vaccinated. Deaths by vaccination status:

Unvaccinated 218 (35.9%)
1 dose:  14 (2.3%)
2 doses: 313 (51.6%)
3 doses: 62 (10.2%)

579 of the deaths (95.4%) are age 60+

https://twitter.com/RanIsraeli

https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general

Those are three incredibly random countries to compare.

Sweeden has a population density of 25 people per square kilometer. Israel has 400. That is 16 times as densely populated, which is the ideal situation for a virus to spread. The US is 36 per square km. I'm not sure why anyone without an agenda to skew reality would pick those three countries. There is also no source for that data.

Hard to get an ideal comparison with population density, but at least we could compare similar populations as common sense would dictate. Virginia has roughly the same number of people as Israel. 

https://www.wavy.com/news/health/coronavirus/virginia-august-31-covid-19-update-3487-new-cases-32-new-deaths-1768-now-hospitalized/

Virginia has had 32 cases on average per day for the past 90 days, so it has had roughly 900 deaths over the same period, despite being far more sparsely populated than Israel. 83.77 per square km. So Israel is at least doing better than Virginia. (All data from Google's which is sourced to wikipedia and ny times, unless otherwise stated).

Florida by the way had 6,600 deaths in August. A little less than three times the population, far more spread out, but 8 times the deaths. Texas had 150. Yesterday. 

Another curious thing is why we would analyze only the last 30 days. We have more data. How many covid deaths in July? 40 by my count. May? 5 by my count. April, 115 by my count. For comparison sake, in April, in Florida 1,736 people died. In July, Texas had about 600 (a little over 3x the population way less dense overall). Tennessee managed about 600 in August, nearly matching Israel. Very impressive for a state with about 2.3 million less people than Israel and about 1/7 the population density.  

When one zooms out the chart showing deaths by vaccination status, as one would assuming they were a competent and honest person and not incompetent or trying to push a moronic agenda, they would see a clear picture. From January when the data begins, unvaccinated deaths dwarf vaccinated deaths. It's not even close. After several months of vaccination, deaths among the vaccinated were virtually non existent and unvaccinated deaths began lowering as well. And, the total deaths overall were basically zero from around the end of March until the middle of July. The curve was flat. 

Then, at the end of July, deaths among those who had been vaccinated started shooting up reaching about the same levels as the unvaccinated. But, only among those who did not receive booster shots. Among those who did receive a booster, the death rate was still less than 1 per day. 

Assuming one is not a dishonest shithead trying to push an agenda, the conclusions to be drawn are clear. Vaccination is effective, but the vaccination's effectiveness wears off over time. Thus, the best course of action is to vaccinate, and give boosters at around 6 months. I assume that's the point you were trying to make.

Thanks for demonstrate the efficacy of vaccines for us <3 I hope the world will follow your sage advice and follow Israel's model!

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 07 September 2021

Hiku said:
EricHiggin said:

Hospital Debunks Rolling Stone Ivermectin Poisoning Hoax Story – NewsWars

Rolling Stone magazine left with egg on face after doctor claims ivermectin ODs 'overwhelm' hospital (bizpacreview.com)

Rolling Stone Busted and Shamed For Writing Fakest “Horse Dewormer” Story You’ll Ever See (wiredailynews.com)

The political and professional elite 'brainiacs' sure did stop some people from getting medical assistance that they would've gotten otherwise. Some are saying this isn't the right way to decide who thrives and who suffers.

You're linking to sites named Conservative News Media, that have headlines such as: "Sorry LIBS, but....", "left wing egg on their face", and reference Alex Jones input.

Sound like very serious news organizations worth reading and responding to. But I will this once, to illustrate why you shouldn't.

The Dr's statement did not specify in which hospital in Oklahoma this supposedly occurred.
Yet the 'news' sites you linked to are concluding that this is a fake story, because one single hospital in Oklahoma that the Dr is affiliated with, but has not worked in for months, did not experience this.
Do you think maybe there are more hospitals in Oklahoma than just one?




And yet your news sites conclude that this is a fake story because one hospital in the entire state did not experience this.
It's as if the people working on those sites you linked either can't read, are very dumb, or believe their readers are unable to notice this very obvious logical fallacy. (And looking at the comment sections, they haven't.)

Rolling Stone did update their article with this story that one hospital in that state did not experience this. And they've reached out to other hospitals in the area that the doctor's group serves for comments. We can't say with certainty that this story is accurate until we hear something concrete, but we also can't say that it is fake because one hospital didn't experience this.

They also added that The National Poison Data System states there were 459 reported cases of ivermectin overdose in the United States in August.

According to the National Poison Data System (NPDS), which collects information from the nation's 55 poison control centers, there was a 245% jump in reported exposure cases from July to August — from 133 to 459.

Poison Control Centers Are Fielding A Surge Of Ivermectin Overdose Calls : Coronavirus Updates : NPR

So Oklahoma aside, Ivermectin overdoses is an actual problem that shouldn't be happening.

Next time, please don't reference literal propaganda sites. Or I will just dismiss it referencing this post of yours, because I don't want to waste another 10 minutes of my life that I won't get back. I fully understand the skepticism towards mainstream media, but those kind of sites are not the alternative. There are independent news organizations that are not propaganda outlets. And Rolling Stone updated the article with this story, so you could have just linked to that.

Like Rolling Stone(d) is any better? Just because their bias is hidden due to a random name doesn't mean they don't have one. The point is whether or not the subject matter is accurate and credible.

I shouldn't read and respond with them, but you should with Rolling Stone, even though you admit the story could be BS and we need to wait? Perhaps Rolling Stone should've done it's due diligence by waiting and further investigating, since it's such a 'mainstream upstanding' organization then, right?

So people can't get human Ivermectin, since it's being held back or is in short supply, and are turning to animal versions, which would require an adjustment to the dosage? Why isn't there a push to make sure human Ivermectin is plentiful since it clearly is for animals? Also, what constitutes exposure in the report?

Ivermectin: a multifaceted drug of Nobel prize-honoured distinction with indicated efficacy against a new global scourge, COVID-19 - ScienceDirect

Hopefully this link is legitimate enough for you. Here is the initial paragraph so you can decide if the rest is worth your time.

"In 2015, the Nobel Committee for Physiology or Medicine, in its only award for treatments of infectious diseases since six decades prior, honoured the discovery of ivermectin (IVM), a multifaceted drug deployed against some of the world’s most devastating tropical diseases. Since March 2020, when IVM was first used against a new global scourge, COVID-19, more than 20 randomized clinical trials (RCTs) have tracked such inpatient and outpatient treatments. Six of seven meta-analyses of IVM treatment RCTs reporting in 2021 found notable reductions in COVID-19 fatalities, with a mean 31% relative risk of mortality vs. controls. During mass IVM treatments in Peru, excess deaths fell by a mean of 74% over 30 days in its ten states with the most extensive treatments. Reductions in deaths correlated with the extent of IVM distributions in all 25 states with p < 0.002. Sharp reductions in morbidity using IVM were also observed in two animal models, of SARS-CoV-2 and a related betacoronavirus. The indicated biological mechanism of IVM, competitive binding with SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, is likely non-epitope specific, possibly yielding full efficacy against emerging viral mutant strains."

numberwang said:
JWeinCom said:

If you like to take joy in the misfortune others cause themselves, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/ which chronicles the Facebook/Twitter feeds of antivax/maskers as they fall to Covid. #sorrynotsorry

Wait till you hear it's mostly POCs who are unvaxxed...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/nyregion/covid-vaccine-black-young-new-yorkers.html

With NY and it's strict vax pass push, POC would be kept form attending events and establishments that others could, correct?. Segregation that targets POC in this case seems kinda racist doesn't it?



Hey gang,

If you don't remember, I was the guy who took the second dose of Pfizer the same day I traveled on a plane, and it kicked my ass the whole 14 hour flight and some.

Further update - My 3 year old daughter got Delta days after the flight, and it was tough on her. it was honestly quite painful for me to observe, the father, seeing your three old battling this damn virus for close to 2 weeks.

My 5 year old son contracted it from her about a week later as he tested positive. The weird thing is, my son unlike my daughter, showed absolutely no symptoms. We wouldn't even have known he had it if he didn't have to do a PCR for school.

My wife and I, both vaccinated with Pfizer, never contracted covid-19 despite being in very close proximity to both.



I am the black sheep     "of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong."-Robert Anton Wilson

EricHiggin said:
Hiku said:

You're linking to sites named Conservative News Media, that have headlines such as: "Sorry LIBS, but....", "left wing egg on their face", and reference Alex Jones input.

Sound like very serious news organizations worth reading and responding to. But I will this once, to illustrate why you shouldn't.

The Dr's statement did not specify in which hospital in Oklahoma this supposedly occurred.
Yet the 'news' sites you linked to are concluding that this is a fake story, because one single hospital in Oklahoma that the Dr is affiliated with, but has not worked in for months, did not experience this.
Do you think maybe there are more hospitals in Oklahoma than just one?




And yet your news sites conclude that this is a fake story because one hospital in the entire state did not experience this.
It's as if the people working on those sites you linked either can't read, are very dumb, or believe their readers are unable to notice this very obvious logical fallacy. (And looking at the comment sections, they haven't.)

Rolling Stone did update their article with this story that one hospital in that state did not experience this. And they've reached out to other hospitals in the area that the doctor's group serves for comments. We can't say with certainty that this story is accurate until we hear something concrete, but we also can't say that it is fake because one hospital didn't experience this.

They also added that The National Poison Data System states there were 459 reported cases of ivermectin overdose in the United States in August.

According to the National Poison Data System (NPDS), which collects information from the nation's 55 poison control centers, there was a 245% jump in reported exposure cases from July to August — from 133 to 459.

Poison Control Centers Are Fielding A Surge Of Ivermectin Overdose Calls : Coronavirus Updates : NPR

So Oklahoma aside, Ivermectin overdoses is an actual problem that shouldn't be happening.

Next time, please don't reference literal propaganda sites. Or I will just dismiss it referencing this post of yours, because I don't want to waste another 10 minutes of my life that I won't get back. I fully understand the skepticism towards mainstream media, but those kind of sites are not the alternative. There are independent news organizations that are not propaganda outlets. And Rolling Stone updated the article with this story, so you could have just linked to that.

Like Rolling Stone(d) is any better? Just because their bias is hidden due to a random name doesn't mean they don't have one. The point is whether or not the subject matter is accurate and credible.

I shouldn't read and respond with them, but you should with Rolling Stone, even though you admit the story could be BS and we need to wait? Perhaps Rolling Stone should've done it's due diligence by waiting and further investigating, since it's such a 'mainstream upstanding' organization then, right?

So people can't get human Ivermectin, since it's being held back or is in short supply, and are turning to animal versions, which would require an adjustment to the dosage? Why isn't there a push to make sure human Ivermectin is plentiful since it clearly is for animals? Also, what constitutes exposure in the report?

Ivermectin: a multifaceted drug of Nobel prize-honoured distinction with indicated efficacy against a new global scourge, COVID-19 - ScienceDirect

Hopefully this link is legitimate enough for you. Here is the initial paragraph so you can decide if the rest is worth your time.

"In 2015, the Nobel Committee for Physiology or Medicine, in its only award for treatments of infectious diseases since six decades prior, honoured the discovery of ivermectin (IVM), a multifaceted drug deployed against some of the world’s most devastating tropical diseases. Since March 2020, when IVM was first used against a new global scourge, COVID-19, more than 20 randomized clinical trials (RCTs) have tracked such inpatient and outpatient treatments. Six of seven meta-analyses of IVM treatment RCTs reporting in 2021 found notable reductions in COVID-19 fatalities, with a mean 31% relative risk of mortality vs. controls. During mass IVM treatments in Peru, excess deaths fell by a mean of 74% over 30 days in its ten states with the most extensive treatments. Reductions in deaths correlated with the extent of IVM distributions in all 25 states with p < 0.002. Sharp reductions in morbidity using IVM were also observed in two animal models, of SARS-CoV-2 and a related betacoronavirus. The indicated biological mechanism of IVM, competitive binding with SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, is likely non-epitope specific, possibly yielding full efficacy against emerging viral mutant strains."

numberwang said:

Wait till you hear it's mostly POCs who are unvaxxed...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/nyregion/covid-vaccine-black-young-new-yorkers.html

With NY and it's strict vax pass push, POC would be kept form attending events and establishments that others could, correct?. Segregation that targets POC in this case seems kinda racist doesn't it?

No. And nobody said anything about vax pass. Not interested in your concern trolling. 

hatmoza said:

Hey gang,

If you don't remember, I was the guy who took the second dose of Pfizer the same day I traveled on a plane, and it kicked my ass the whole 14 hour flight and some.

Further update - My 3 year old daughter got Delta days after the flight, and it was tough on her. it was honestly quite painful for me to observe, the father, seeing your three old battling this damn virus for close to 2 weeks.

My 5 year old son contracted it from her about a week later as he tested positive. The weird thing is, my son unlike my daughter, showed absolutely no symptoms. We wouldn't even have known he had it if he didn't have to do a PCR for school.

My wife and I, both vaccinated with Pfizer, never contracted covid-19 despite being in very close proximity to both.

 
 
 
 

:(. Good that you didn't contract it. My Sister and her Husband got it from their babies despite vaccination. None of them were seriously ill, but hoping there are no long term consequences. Hope the same for your kids.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 07 September 2021

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RolStoppable said:

1. In a good year of living with the virus, 80% of the known infections have resulted in no or only mild symptoms. 15% have been cases where the infected had to stay at home to recover from the symptoms. It's only the remaining 5% who had to seek medical care of which a portion has been hospitalized and an even smaller fraction had to put in intensive care.

5% hospitalisation rate is actually pretty high for an illness, and the thing is very infectuous, so reaches a lot of people. Thing is, our health system is optimized for the health issues arising in *normal* times. Meaning, additional capacity is usually removed, as it costs money and is not normally needed. COVID now increases the load on the system, bringing it to it's limit or beyond. That's why the thread as mentions of patients waiting for hours or are outright rejected by hospitals.

There is another thing: as doctors and nurses usually feel obligated to help the people in danger, the increased load on the system leads to them doing a lot of overtime. Because they decide to add another 5 hours to their already 10 hours long shift or to help their colleagues with all the patients. This has effects long term. In Germany in April was a study released, that showed that about a third of nurses are considering to change their job, mostly because of the pressure COVID has created. Simply put: the health professionals are so overworked, they don't feel like they are able to go on.

https://www.dgiin.de/allgemeines/pressemitteilungen/pm-leser/online-umfrage-zeigt-mitarbeitende-auf-den-intensivstationen-notaufnahmen-und-im-rettungsdienst-sind-erschoepft.html

RolStoppable said:

2. Of the people who died of COVID-19, it's important to point out that in almost all cases they didn't die of COVID-19 alone. Rather it is more probable that they died because of a combination of multiple things, including previous known problems with their heart or lungs, or obesity. These previous diseases and illnesses are usually caused by unhealthy lifestyles, such as smoking, too much alcohol and/or intake of processed foods. So if there was actual concern about people, then the solution to COVID-19 and its variants would not be vaccination, but preventive measures to keep people healthier overall. This means that governments should have clamped down on holes in the laws concerning food processing, but I am not aware of any country taking any steps like that.

Thing is: comorbidities are a factor in basically all big epedemics. For the spanish flu it was starvation as a result of World War I, for Cholera epidemics the access to clear water has a tremendous effect on survivability. And in general: a healthy young body is much more able to withstand an infection than an old body with Diabetes or smoking. We all know that. Even before COVID, we knew that overweight, smoking or diabetes reduces your life expectancy. Usually not because these things killed you directly, but because they made you more suspectible to other illnesses. So what you say about COVID is also true for flu or other illnesses.

So I agree, governments should strive for fighting other health issues, but COVID does exactly nothing to change that. It is simply an illness that poses a danger to everyone, but as usual the most vulnerable are hit the most and first.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024

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OMG that HermanCainAward subreddit is pure gold.
Already spent way too much time reading the topics.



Barozi said:

OMG that HermanCainAward subreddit is pure gold.
Already spent way too much time reading the topics.

It is honestly just sad. The amount of effort people do to kill themselves.

I like to think I am not a bad person, so I do my due diligence and try not to kill them either despite being protected.



hatmoza said:

Hey gang,

If you don't remember, I was the guy who took the second dose of Pfizer the same day I traveled on a plane, and it kicked my ass the whole 14 hour flight and some.

Further update - My 3 year old daughter got Delta days after the flight, and it was tough on her. it was honestly quite painful for me to observe, the father, seeing your three old battling this damn virus for close to 2 weeks.

My 5 year old son contracted it from her about a week later as he tested positive. The weird thing is, my son unlike my daughter, showed absolutely no symptoms. We wouldn't even have known he had it if he didn't have to do a PCR for school.

My wife and I, both vaccinated with Pfizer, never contracted covid-19 despite being in very close proximity to both.

Sorry, to hear about your daughter. Struggling with strong illness is never nice, for small kids it may be even harder.

People are different, that's why it may have hit your daughter harder than your son. Also it may have an influence, how much virus they initially breathed in, as more initial virus may result in a bigger virus base, before the immune system kicks in.

It is also conceivable the vaccination protected you against infection. Apparently the first time directly after vaccination you have an elevated level of immune bodies against the disease, that help prevent the infection taking root at all. Later on only the long-term immune reaction stays, which means the infection might take root in your body, but the specific immune response kicks in fast and prevents serious illness.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

There is a study, that apparently people with serious infection can develop antibodies against ACE2, so your own body. This doesn't sound great.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0257016 Also, because of non-pharmaceutical interventions against COVID, we had a far slower flu season.

That may be a problem coming up, as it affects development of each years flu vaccines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7XQ5ZNKDJo&ab_channel=SciShow



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]