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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

The spike protein of animal circulating SARS-CoV-2 is very conserved except for a few adaptive mutations, so I doubt any spillover could happen in the short to mid term.

People's antibody levels to the spike are just too high, so high it likely puts a damper on the emergence of any other Sarbecovirus (sars, etc.) in human populations for decades if not forever (of course, though, human lineages mutating especifically to escape conserved antibody sites will continue to exist).



 

 

 

 

 

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(Everyone - I've decided to post this here, rather than create a new thread, as I would hate to lose the tremendous history here.  As the last post here is over a year old, I consider this post to be the start of a new pivot for this thread and is based on info I've compiled over the last week.)

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A week ago I stumbled on a press release that goes like this:

EcoHealth Alliance President Peter Daszak to Appear for a Public Hearing Before the Congressional Coronovirus Subcommitee on May 1, 2024

 https://oversight.house.gov/release/ecohealth-alliance-president-peter-daszak-to-appear-for-public-hearing/

I remembered his name from two sources: The 60 Minutes story "What Happened in Wuhan" from 3/28/21

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-wuhan-origins-60-minutes-2021-03-28/

Which includes interviews with Daszak and Jamie Metzl (more on him later).

The 2nd source was an article from 5/2/21, written by Nicolas Wade (more on him later), former science editor for the NY Times.

https://nicholaswade.medium.com/origin-of-covid-following-the-clues-6f03564c038

Great article, long read, but worth it. He mentions Daszak on many occasions. After reading this article, in fact, I became convinced that the origin of Covid-19 (C19) was from a lab leak in Wuhan, China.

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Later,  I went back to the Daszak press release and did a search on DEFUSE and found this:

Daszak proposal: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21066966-defuse-proposal

DARPA rejection: https://assets.ctfassets.net/syq3snmxclc9/5OjsrkkXHfuHps6Lek1MO0/5e7a0d86d5d67e8d153555400d9dcd17/defuse-project-rejection-by-darpa.pdf

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Next, I found this article dated 3/28/23:

COVID Origins Hearing Wrap Up: Facts, Science, Evidence Point to a Wuhan Lab Leak

https://oversight.house.gov/release/covid-origins-hearing-wrap-up-facts-science-evidence-point-to-a-wuhan-lab-leak%EF%BF%BC/

I instantly recognized the names of the 3 witnesses: Jamie Metzl, Nicolas Wade, and Robert Redfield, former director of the CDC.

Here's Ecohealth trying to discredit their testimony: https://www.ecohealthalliance.org/2023/03/ecohealth-alliance-statement-correcting-inaccuracies-in-testimony-to-be-delivered-before-the-house-select-committee

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On 4/25 - I found this: Fauci agrees to testify in Congress on covid origins, pandemic policies on June 3, 2024

Article connecting Daszak to Fauci: https://nypost.com/2024/04/19/us-news/ex-fauci-adviser-shared-confidential-nih-info-with-ecohealth-about-covid-biosafety-levels-docs/

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Then I found this article, from 4/19/24 which, after thinking about it, SHOCKED ME, in relation to all the prior evidence I've collected, and time spent   connecting-the-dots:

FBI found it ‘alarming’ that Fauci-funded virus research at Wuhan lab would leave no trace of ‘human manipulation’

https://nypost.com/2024/04/19/us-news/fbi-got-tip-that-fauci-funded-virus-research-at-wuhan-lab-would-leave-no-trace-of-human-manipulation/

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Lastly, yesterday I found this:

Hearing Advisory: EcoHealth Alliance President Dr. Peter Daszak to Testify on May 1 - United States House Committee on Oversight and Accountability

I found this sentence of interest: "Prior to Dr. Daszak’s public testimony, the Select Subcommittee will release the full transcript from Dr. Daszak’s transcribed interview* and publish a detailed report about EcoHealth’s impact on the origins of COVID-19."

*from a Nov. 14, 2023 closed door hearing.

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Conclusion:

 I believe the virus we call Covid-19, originated in the WIV lab in Wuhan, China. In fact, it was created by them using Gain of Function (GoF) techniques.

Scientists have known all along that C19 didn't go directly from bats to humans, so there has to be an intermediary host.  Yet, after testing more than 80,000 animals, none of them are connected to C19. If you believe in the lab leak theory, then identifying the intermediary host is easy: laboratory, humanized mice (in this case - mice that have been injected with human cells to give them "humanized lungs").  In fact, Daszak's DARPA proposal spells this out exactly (pg.5, par 2, bottom - "inoculated into humanized mice").

Also, Daszak came up with the idea to conduct this research, and he proposed it to DARPA. Why DARPA?

They are the R&D arm of the US Dept. of Defense. Did Daszak consider his proposal something that could result in the creation of a bio-weapon that would be of interest to DARPA?  Who knows, because DARPA rejected his proposal for many reasons, especially that such work was too risky.

So, what did Daszak do? Did he give up on his idea? NO!  In his DARPA proposal, the WIV was going to do the easy work, and a lab at the University of North Carolina was going to do the GoF work.

Now, with his proposal rejected, he gave all the work to the WIV, and saved money vs. having much of the work done in the US.  Furthur, if the GoF work had been done in the US, it would have to be in a Bio-Safety Level 3 lab.  But in China, they allow such work to be done at BSL-2 - which is what your average dentist office has for bio-safety.

So how did C19 go from a humanized mouse to infect a lab worker? That's easy too. You see, even though they have tiny mouths and noses, they still cough and sneeze like the rest of us. If a lab worker, in a BSL-2 environment was close enough to that mouse when it coughed/sneezed, then it's no surprise that the worker would now be infected with C19.

Also, since a virus created according to Daszak's propoal would have no traces of human manipulation - it could be defined as a potential bio-weapon - an untraceable one at that. One which would appear to have come from natural origins!

Imagine, for instance, that China was involved in a future conflict in which it was losing or had reached a stalemate. They could negotiate for a temporary cease fire - at which time the two sides would be separated by much more than 6'. Then China could introduce the virus on the enemy's side, while it immunized its troops with a secretly developed vaccine - that was in hidden storage. Once the cease fire ended, and as the virus ravaged the enemy, the vaccinated Chinese troops would be free to dominate the battlefield.



Note: This post was last edited on 6/3/24

‘I took an oath to do no harm’: The two doctors wrestling over Fauci’s legacy

Brad Wenstrup was alarmed.

It was February 2020, weeks before the coronavirus pandemic shuttered America’s businesses and schools. But the Ohio congressman, a former military combat surgeon, was reading email from a fellow doctor on how U.S. and Chinese researchers had been experimenting on viruses in Wuhan, China, the epicenter of the outbreak.

“Look, I’m military, a military doc. … I started thinking about biological weapons,” Wenstrup recalled in a recent interview with The Washington Post.

Four years later, the Republican congressman is still thinking about China’s potential links to covid, as part of his work to shape America’s understanding of the pandemic. As chairman of the House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic — the only panel in Congress solely devoted to probing a health crisis that left more than 1 million Americans dead — Wenstrup has led investigations into the origins of the virus as well as hearings on school shutdowns, vaccine mandates and possible side effects from coronavirus vaccines. He recruited another doctor — California congressman Raul Ruiz, an emergency medicine specialist — to serve as the panel’s top Democrat last year, promising they would be two physicians working together to get answers and accountability.

Wenstrup and his fellow Republicans have focused much of their effort on the possible lab origins of the coronavirus, suggesting federal officials worked to cover up U.S. ties to researchers in Wuhan. The issue is set to receive national attention Monday, when Anthony S. Fauci — to many Americans, the face of the nation’s coronavirus response — testifies in front of the panel. Republicans are poised to grill the former National Institutes of Health official on the agency’s funding of EcoHealth Alliance, a nonprofit organization that participated in risky virus research in China before the pandemic. Federal officials in May halted funding to the organization, citing irregularities uncovered by the coronavirus panel.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/other/i-took-an-oath-to-do-no-harm-the-two-doctors-wrestling-over-fauci-s-legacy/ar-BB1nuBsf?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=2048542b3f394085b3167207ca1a8343&ei=45

Last edited by BFR - on 03 June 2024

Note: This post was last edited on 6/3/24

HEARING ADVISORY: Dr. Anthony Fauci to Testify on June 3, 2024

Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic Chairman Brad Wenstrup (R-Ohio) will hold a hearing titled “A Hearing with Dr. Anthony Fauci” on Monday, June 3, 2024. This hearing is the first time Dr. Fauci will testify publicly since retiring from public service. Earlier this year, Dr. Fauci appeared in front of the Select Subcommittee for a closed-door, two-day, 14-hour transcribed interview.

Retirement from public service does not excuse Dr. Fauci from accountability to the American people. On June 3, Americans will have an opportunity to hear directly from Dr. Fauci about his role in overseeing our nation’s pandemic response, shaping pandemic-era polices, and promoting singular, questionable narratives about the origins of COVID-19. During Dr. Fauci’s closed-door interview in January, he testified to serious systemic failures in our public health system that deserve further investigation, including his testimony that the ‘6 feet apart’ social distancing guidance — which was used to shut down small businesses and schools across America — ‘sort of just appeared.’

“We also learned that Dr. Fauci believes the lab leak hypothesis he publicly downplayed should not be dismissed as a conspiracy theory."

WHAT: Hearing titled “A Hearing with Dr. Anthony Fauci”

DATE: Monday, June 3, 2024

TIME: 10:00AM ET

WATCH: The hearing will be open to the public and press and will be livestreamed online at https://oversight.house.gov/.

Last edited by BFR - on 03 June 2024

Are people pushing the lab leak theory again?

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-06-26/u-s-government-debunks-covid-lab-leak-conspiracy-theory-enraging-conspiracy-theorists

The long-awaited report released Friday by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence put the lie to the theory that the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which causes COVID-19, leaked from a virology lab in Wuhan, China, where the disease was first detected in humans.

https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Report-on-Potential-Links-Between-the-Wuhan-Institute-of-Virology-and-the-Origins-of-COVID-19-20230623.pdf


https://www.webmd.com/covid/coronavirus-history

The latest intelligence reports agree that the SARS-CoV-2 is not genetically engineered or developed as a biological weapon. They do say it is possible a version of a coronavirus was being studied with animals in a lab and exposure occurred there. Again, there is not enough evidence for a definitive conclusion.

Because the first cases of COVID-19 appeared in China, there has been a lot of anti-Asian speech and acts around the origins of SARS-CoV-2


It's always the timing that is suspicious, why now again.


But yes it could have happened from exposure while studying the virus, it has not been ruled out and an intermediary species has not been confirmed. The Pangolin was a good candidate but didn't fit in the end.

However it's not a genetically engineered bio weapon. It's not very effective at it, killing mostly elderly people and those with co morbidities. It hardly effected healthy younger people, those serving in armies... Standing 6' apart also does nothing for an airborne virus. That was all security theater without better ventilation. Same as masks only were 10% effective. Lock downs worked.

The theory that the research was done to get ahead of new out breaks is far more likely. Bio-weapons that attack your own as well, the whole world, who benefits from that? The only ones that benefited from the pandemic where pharmaceutical companies.



And not sure why you would call it humiliation of China, from your own linked article. If it was leaked from the lab, it was from research funded by the USA. Conveniently done in China, far away...

Because, by a strange twist in the story, her [Dr. Zheng-li Shi] work was funded by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), a part of the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH). And grant proposals that funded her work, which are a matter of public record, specify exactly what she planned to do with the money.

The grants were assigned to the prime contractor, Dr. Daszak of the EcoHealth Alliance, who subcontracted them to Dr. Shi. Here are extracts from the grants for fiscal years 2018 and 2019. “CoV” stands for coronavirus and “S protein” refers to the virus’s spike protein.

“Test predictions of CoV inter-species transmission. Predictive models of host range (i.e. emergence potential) will be tested experimentally using reverse genetics, pseudovirus and receptor binding assays, and virus infection experiments across a range of cell cultures from different species and humanized mice.

“We will use S protein sequence data, infectious clone technology, in vitro and in vivo infection experiments and analysis of receptor binding to test the hypothesis that % divergence thresholds in S protein sequences predict spillover potential.”

What this means, in non-technical language, is that Dr. Shi set out to create novel coronaviruses with the highest possible infectivity for human cells. Her plan was to take genes that coded for spike proteins possessing a variety of measured affinities for human cells, ranging from high to low. She would insert these spike genes one by one into the backbone of a number of viral genomes (“reverse genetics” and “infectious clone technology”), creating a series of chimeric viruses. These chimeric viruses would then be tested for their ability to attack human cell cultures (“in vitro”) and humanized mice (“in vivo”). And this information would help predict the likelihood of “spillover,” the jump of a coronavirus from bats to people.

The USA knew what she was doing and funded the research.

If anything it's more humiliation for the USA. Exporting dangerous research to a cheaper location.

 



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Note: This post was last edited on 6/3/24

Alina Chan:

"The pandemic could have been caused by any of hundreds of virus species, at any of tens of thousands of wildlife markets, in any of thousands of cities, and in any year. But it was a SARS-like coronavirus with a unique furin cleavage site that emerged in Wuhan, less than two years after scientists, sometimes working under inadequate biosafety conditions, proposed collecting and creating viruses of that same design."

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/06/03/opinion/covid-lab-leak.html?unlocked_article_code=1.w00.8JGK.XlP0qBRKHdWB

Last edited by BFR - on 03 June 2024

‘I Knew Nothing’: Fauci Distances Himself from Adviser’s Cover-Up of Covid-

Dr. Anthony Fauci distanced himself from his former adviser, Dr. David Morens, during his congressional testimony on Monday, repeatedly denying that he had any involvement in or knowledge of Morens’s efforts to evade transparency by conducting official business on his personal email account.
 

Morens, who served as Fauci’s senior adviser during his time leading the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, used his private email account to discuss the origins of Covid-19 with EcoHealth Alliance president Peter Daszak and deleted the related correspondence, according to emails released last month by the House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic. The series of emails shows Morens was concerned about the correspondence being made public via the Freedom of Information Act.

Fauci denied any knowledge of or involvement in his adviser’s actions.

“With respect to his recent testimony before this subcommittee, I knew nothing of Dr. Moren’s actions regarding Dr. Daszak, EcoHealth, or his emails,” Fauci said. “It is important to point out for the record that despite his title, and even though he was helpful to me in writing scientific papers, Dr. Morens was not an adviser to me on institute policy or other substantive issues.”

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"Dr. Morens was not an adviser to me on institute policy or other substantive issues.”

Fauci is a lying sack of shit. Morens was a good friend to him, and a trusted adviser. They worked together for 24 years at NIAID !!!

So now, its Fauci vs. Morens. Let's see what happens next.

 

Last edited by BFR - on 03 June 2024