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Forums - General Discussion - Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread

Hiku said:

What a surprise. Who could have seen this coming when taking advice from a guy that coughed straight into his hands during a Covid safety press conference.

(Before someone says "It takes time to change your habits" like Trumpstyle did before, he's a lifelong career virologist. He's been well aware that even the seasonal flu kills ppl annually, and clearly doesn't give a damn to change his habits for the past 40+ years. Not to mention we learned to not cough into our hands in kindergarden as well.)

Swedish government is scrambling to wrap their heads around the dire situation now. They're resorting more and more to tactics and decisions that were "antidemocratic", "draconian", and "anti-scientific" when other countries did them. All the while Swedish media is insisting that the rest of the world is copying them due to the excellence of their strategy (since schools are open in many countries now, unlike during spring).

The Swedish state epidemiologist and his institute have higher trust rates than ever from the people; I'm beginning to think that Swedes are simply masochists as a general rule. There's still a surprising number of people that spend their time talking down the dangers of the virus, all of which is only strengthened by repeated state and media doctrines of exceptionalism and immense domestic hubris. It's staggering to witness.



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Wasn't declared like 10 times that Sweden has hit herd immunity already? Doesn't seem to stay very long.



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Mnementh said:

Wasn't declared like 10 times that Sweden has hit herd immunity already? Doesn't seem to stay very long.

It's a complete farce; the Stockholm region is only now in November seeing the immunity counts that was claimed would be reached before May 1st. Almost every single aspect of the handling of the crisis has been shoddy, from pushing around the political responsibility, to lacking material and personnel, and into fumbling the reality of the pandemic totally by lifting a lot of restrictions only a couple of weeks before the second wave really hit.

This is symptomatic of the Swedish system in general, no one assumes responsibility or takes charge, which is dangerous when paired with the belief that one is exceptional and unique. To make matters worse and the parody complete; they do love to point fingers at others and assign blame wherever possible. When trouble does arrive, it becomes a shouting match focusing on the shouting and what's allowed to shout and not, rather than the issues themselves. This is the same whether it's the handling of the pandemic, the terrible response and utter lack of preparation around the massive forest fires, the issues with organized crime being perpetrated by younger and younger kids, the lacking school results or the failure to implement any cohesive integration policy for newly arrived immigrants or refugees.

By the way, if you're wondering what the official explanation for having vastly more deaths than their neighboring countries is, it varies between "the numbers are misleading", "it's hit us differently than anyone else", "look at -insert micro state with insanely dense population per sq. kilometer- in comparison to us", "look at -insert country that handled it really terribly, is totalitarian or just plain dysfunctional from top to bottom- in comparison to us", "it's too soon to tell", "yes, but look at how their economy is being destroyed and the terrible suffering brought about by restrictions", "we can't do those things, it's against the constitution".



Oxford's vaccine trial results show that their vaccine is either 90% or 62% effective depending on the method of administration. While that averages out to an official result of 70% for their trial, in practice I assume they'll just use the 90% effective method.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/nov/23/astrazeneca-says-its-coronavirus-vaccine-has-70-per-cent-efficacy-covid-oxford-university

Also, today marks an important day for my state; not only is this our 25th day with no new cases, we now have zero active cases statewide, as our last COVID patient, an immunocompromised individual who was sick for some time, has finally recovered and left hospital.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-24/last-victorian-covid-patient-leaves-hospital/12913756



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

vivster said:
Nighthawk117 said:

This planet is overpopulated.  Your Germs should know that better than anyone....at least you did back in the 30s and 40s.

After those times, you lost all my respect.

See, the sad part here is that I absolutely cannot tell if you're joking or not and that should be concerning to you.

Your German uncertainty gives me great pleasure my young padawan....Put that in your Pipe and smoke it   !!!



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Alberta is the first province to cave, closing schools again. All indoor social gatherings are banned, limited to max 10 people outdoors. Weddings and funerals will be limited to 10 people. Receptions are prohibited. Those who live alone are allowed to have two non-household close contacts.

Alberta took the lead in Canada (in daily reported cases) with only a third of the population of Ontario. Ontario is still rising as well, but slower. Schools remain open yet businesses have to close in designated red zones. The result, for example Canadian Tire in zones that are still open (a big home hardware chain) noticed that 30% of their customers are now from red zones.... (rewards cards have postal code info) These zone closures only help move the virus outside the problem area.

Meanwhile people are queuing up at airports across the USA for thanksgiving.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/11/21/coronavirus-thanksgiving-travel/


And here
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/night-and-day-toronto-doctor-speaks-out-as-hospitals-fill-up-and-covid-19-patients-die-1.5200952

A Toronto doctor who lost three patients to the coronavirus in 36 hours says he’s dismayed by holiday shoppers lining up at malls for discounts while hospitals surpass capacity thresholds amid the second wave of the COVID-19 pandemic.

“The COVID ward is a place of desolation. It’s a place of quiet -- an eerie sense of quiet -- where there’s very little in the way of human contact and connection that patients would ordinarily have from their family and their loved ones. Because patients are in individual rooms, they’re isolated in the truest sense,” he said Monday.

He’s seen patients die “very suddenly” after spending a few days forming bonds with them. It has been “absolutely heartbreaking” for him and members of his team at Toronto General Hospital, he said.

“And then I see parking lots that are full outside of malls because people are trying to beat the Christmas holiday rush before a lockdown to get a good deal on an item. It’s really hard for me to reconcile that and understand that there are these two very incongruent realities,” he said, adding that the virus isn’t an “abstract phenomenon.” 

“This is somebody’s family member that I’m seeing and I’m pronouncing as dead after I talked to them and spent some quality time with them a few days ago,” he said, suggesting that that reality doesn’t appear to have sunk in for many Canadians. Sharkawy isn’t sure how else to make it click -- he and his colleagues have “run out of dramatic phrases and alarm bells to ring,” he said.

 



It seems that Sweden, the lone country without masks or severe restrictions, will finish 2020 without excess mortality compared to previous years. In fact October 2020 was a record low mortality month. 

No, Swedes don't live in isolated holes under the earth. It is as urbanized as most of the western world and has a similar population density to the US.

Sweden has 647 Cov-deaths/M according to worldometer (number 23 global) but without annual excess mortality? WHO suggested that covid replaced the seasonal flu so an exchange rather than an addition of deaths. Anyway it seems that for most countries there is no visible annual excess mortality unless you cross above 600 Cov-deaths/M.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-face-masks-idUSKBN27Z27X

Sweden should rethink its decision not to recommend the use of face masks to prevent the spread of the novel coronavirus amid a second wave of infections, the Royal Academy of Sciences, which awards the Nobel prizes, said on Thursday.

With new cases of the virus recently hitting record levels, Sweden introduced its toughest measures so far during the pandemic earlier this week, cutting public gatherings to a maximum of eight people.

Sales of face masks are also increasing, with pharmacy Apotea reporting sales up 360% in November compared to October.



To compare apples with apples

Norway: 314 deaths, 58 per million (6,200 cases per million)
Finland: 384 deaths, 69 per million (4,210 cases per million)
Sweden: 6,500 deaths, 642 per million (22,279 cases per million)

Last edited by SvennoJ - on 25 November 2020

It really is a phenomenal scientific achievement that within a year of the virus being identified, we already have multiple vaccines with 90+% efficacy almost ready for deployment.

I know a lot of people are worried by the speed with which this has happened, but rather than seeing this as rushed, it's more accurate to see the usual development time of several years as a symptom of red tape, funding issues, apathy, and other unnecessary hangups that simply aren't an issue now that the world has a reason to care and contribute.

In a time when so many millions are suffering, one of the upsides of the current situation is that it has brought together scientists the world over in a way that almost nothing has before in our history. For arguably the first time, the expertise of the entire globe is working towards a common goal, and have been given all the resources they need to achieve it as quickly as possible.

What we're seeing really is a testament not only to human intelligence and ingenuity, but to the human spirit.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 25 November 2020

Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

curl-6 said:

It really is a phenomenal scientific achievement that within a year of the virus being identified, we already have multiple vaccines with 90+% efficacy almost ready for deployment.

What if the virus mutates?  Then the vaccine won't be so effective.  Just saying.  I don't see Covid-19 going away without a fight.

Call me a devil's advocate.