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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Console Wars are mostly dead...

Xxain said:
RolStoppable said:

Microsoft doesn't need an Xbox-focused strategy to perform better than with the huge blunders they committed with the Xbox One. The execution of the Xbox One was so awful that even a mediocre execution of Scarlett is bound to lead to gains gen over gen.

You overestimate brand loyalty a great deal. History has shown time and time again that the majority of gamers has no problem to leave games, save data and achievements behind, because new consoles are bought to play new games. As for starting from scratch, I clearly refered to installed base and there's no debate that the PS5 will start with sales of 0.

Yes, several generations ago. Times haved changed. We are have entered an age where carrying over stats (trophies, saved data, friendslist, subscriptions, ext) is factor in deciding where to go next and that is just not exclusive to video games. In the yesterdays when you bought a new phone, you essentially had to re add numbers/ apps manually, now assuming you stick with your service they will transfer everything for you. People like that. That keeps people. Those people are also gamers. Gaming is not dominated by dwebs anymore, hell "gamer" does not even have the negative connotation associated with it anymore. Those gamers outnumber Internet gamers. If we have people who would stick to the same phone services for convenience, why would that changed in regards to consoles?   It's not brand loyalty in regards to the normal definition but more like convenience loyalty, " I got all these games, all these trophies, all the friends, put all this money into this account .. why not get a PS5?". It is not because "I love Sony!" but investment.

We did not have cross gen accounts that held an entire gens worth of crap back in the day. Hell, Nintendo still does not have it and I think that is why you don't get the value in it.

Microsoft and Sony tried that last gen (you may have mentioned this but I wanted to reply so fast, I just skimmed it!).  Both MS and Sony had a ton of cross gen purchases that carried over as well as Achievements. Hell, there are movies I had purchased on PS3 that I deleted and couldn't redownload (It's insane. I even made a thread about it.) but those purchases came back on PS4!!

Anyway, I agree with you. You kinda have to stick with the brand you've been with before or just kiss a lot of your content and saves goodbye. As a gamer, even if there's a game I never intend to play again, it just feels good having my old saves and dlc there. Switching brands is hard!!

Twitter: @d21lewis

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Azzanation said:
Its some of the stupidest things hearing about console wars. Let them die. Sick of hearing which platform or game is better because it sold more, its just as petty as hearing someone talk about iPhones vs Galaxies and which sold more. Fanboys will eventually grow up and however I fail to see some growing up anytime soon.

I will admit, sometimes its entertaining but most times its just nonsense and childish or people trying to justify there purchases.

RolStoppable said:
Mnementh said:

I disagree a bit. While I would not overestimate brand loyalty, history also has shown that it exists. Look no further than PS4. At launch the library had a lot of 'definitive ports'. But people bought the system and rebought the games. A friend literally said, he rebought something (don't remember, might have been Tomb Raider) so that he has something to play with his new PS4, while waiting for more games. A lot of PS4 sold on brand loyalty. And the promise of a great library down the road was fulfilled, so I don't see thta brand loyalty destroyed.

But even more counts the network effects Xxain talks about. Network effects are really strong. That is the reason competing with Twitter and Facebook is so hard, people don't want to lose their friends, followers, likes and so on. Same with the friendlist, achievements and more on consoles. And just think about it: you own a PS4 and have PS+. As PS5 releases you might not be interested, but each month you automatically get free games for PS5. The deal looks sweeter as time goes by. Cross-buy means you don't have to rebuy all the smaller download-games you purchased and are available on the new system. And so on. Sony has a lot of this stuff to pull you over to the new system if you are already invested in the previous one.

Nintendo by the way sucks at these effects. Going from Wii to WiiU and 3DS you had to readd your friends. Switch at least offers to send your previous friends an invitation, so it is a bit better. You had always to rebuy all you digital downloads on each Nintendo system, even as the same was available. This was true for virtual console, although I remember Nintendo offered a discount for VC-titles you owned on Wii. Now VC is dropped completely. Miiverse was just canned. Just think about it, if Switch had retained Miiverse, all the WiiU and 3Ds owners would have seen posts and screenshots from games on Switch in their Miiverse. This could have been a pull-factor. So yes, you are right in regards to Nintendo. For Nintendo each new gen starts at zero. But this is a failing of Nintendo, others do that better.

In response to your first paragraph: The plural of anecdote is not data. Of course brand loyalty exists, but the way Xxain and you talk about it overstates it. An anecdote of a PS4 purchase doesn't hold much weight because the alternatives in that generation were very weak. Also, most PS+ subscribers don't download their free games. Even the highly popular Rocket League was downloaded by only about half of the subscribers at the time and that's the best case scenario. Download rates for other games can be expected to be (well) below 10% of active subscribers during any given month, so that's a few million people at best.

What you say about Nintendo consoles should make you realize how little these things matter. The Wii U had full backwards compatibility to retain all digital games and all save data for retail and digital games, but it sold worse than everything else. Switch has no backwards compatibility whatsoever and sells much better than the 3DS. You talk about Miiverse as if it could have been a difference maker, but really, who cares. Nevermind that the abolishment of Miiverse meant that gamers had to share their screenshots and comments on Twitter and Facebook, so even in the context you are using, you'd have to consider the end of Miiverse a positive thing.

Microsoft made big efforts to make the Xbox One backwards compatible and Xbox Live was superior to PSN during the seventh generation, but these things hardly mattered.

The bottom line is that other factors are much, much more important. Don't fall into the trap of "the PS2 owned its generation, so of course the PS3 will be a winner too" or "the 360 has comfortably beaten the PS3 in the USA, so the Xbox brand has America locked down now and in the future." If people don't want to lose their games, saves and achievements, then what they do is keep the old console and buy the new console that they consider the best choice. There's a small portion of the market that is loyal to a brand, but that's not going to turn into a significant amount anytime soon.

But all this is sidetracking. Regardless of this specific discussion, it's clear that the PS5 has to sell at least as well as the PS4 to even have a chance at winning in the ninth generation. That won't be an easy feat when the competition doesn't screw themselves over and that's why the upcoming years will have a lot more console wars than the previous five.

Damn. You made some really good points, too. Now I'm just confused. Gonna take a nap.

Twitter: @d21lewis

Console wars are stupid, immature and petty. However, Sony is f****** garbage and its nice to see their teeth getting kicked in.

moderated by the-pi-guy

Last edited by the-pi-guy - on 02 November 2019

I've been saying for years that the worst, most vicious fan bases are those that have their backs against the wall.  They become aggressively defensive, ready to battle at any perceived slight.  They're like starving dogs, wandering the streets of virtual gaming reality.

Right now, everyone is pretty much content.  Nintendo has veered off the path of direct competition and even Xbox is doing its own thing.  Each ecosystem has its own advantages that will appeal to different people.  Most fans feel relatively secure.

I certainly don't miss it.

Mnementh said:

So my point is: waiting and releasing a great package is much much better than rushing to launch.

Absolutely.  People need to get over the idea that it's a race.  Nintendo doesn't care that the Switch is millions of units behind the PS4.  Sony won't care that the PS5 is millions of units behind the Switch, as long as it sells well.  We've already seen that there is more than enough consumers to support both of them.  There is overlap, obviously, but the Switch checks different boxes than a traditional home console and the PS5's tech is going to be killer.  One is not going to replace the other.  

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Cerebralbore101 said:
The only console generation where one of the main competitors wasn't either shooting themselves in the foot or starting with a severe handicapp was the Megadrive/SNES generation. During the NES era the whole industry crashed and Nintendo came from out of nowhere to fill the void. N64 shot itself in the foot with carts instead of CDs, during the PS1/N64 era. Gamecube shot itself in the foot with tiny disks, and no DVD playback ability. Xbox started from the severe handicapp of being an entirely new player to the wars. PS3 shot itself in the foot at launch. XB1 shot itself in the foot with "always online DRM" almost being a thing on the console, and packed in Kinect driving up the price.

Mostly true, but Sega shot themselves in the foot by the add-ons to the Mega Drive/Genesis. Did it directly hurt the Mega Drive/Genesis? Probably not. But it cost them dearly with the Saturn and Dreamcast. The Sega CD and 32X were the beginning of the end for Sega as a hardware manufacturer. 

Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 144 million (was 73, then 96, then 113 million, then 125 million)

PS5: 105 million Xbox Series S/X: 60 million

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

Deeds said:

Console wars are stupid, immature and petty. However, Sony is f****** garbage and its nice to see their teeth getting kicked in.

I'm curious. Did they kill your puppy or are you just immature?

Back in 2013, actors Grahame Edwards, Eryl Lloyd Parry, and Anthony Sergeant dramatically reconstructed a YouTube comment section argument over whether the PlayStation 4 or Xbox One would be better. It made me laugh. A lot. It captured the pretentious drama of calling people names and such over stuff like gaming consoles in all its amusing pettiness. (You can find that comment reconstruction here.) That's what I think of the hardcore console warriors out there. That's how such people strike me.

In all honesty though, at the same time, I often feel sorry for those types of people in as far as they still exist at this point. When I was a kid, most gamers only got one home console per console generation. For example, one who owned a Super NES (or Super Nintendo, as we called it back then) probably didn't also have a Sega Genesis (or a Sega, as it was more often simply called at the time) and vice versa. Today though, it seems like most gamers wind up getting more than one home console per generation. Like for example, most Switch owners also have a PlayStation 4 that they had bought earlier on. That cultural change has definitely reduced the intensity of people's console warring in general over time, in my observation. I think aggressive console warring of the type we're referring to here is something mostly reserved for the exceptions to that rule: the kids who still only get one console per generation or the adults who can only afford one. That can make blindly devoted brand loyalists out of people. There's a level on which I can sympathize with that. Doesn't make the results of that often excessive brand loyalty less funny to watch unfold though.

(And, for those who watched the video, I am grateful to Bob and his army for finally defeating Google+.)

Last edited by Jaicee - on 02 November 2019

As long as there are more than 1 gamer and 1 console in the world, the console war will keep going strong...

Replicant said:
Deeds said:

Console wars are stupid, immature and petty. However, Sony is f****** garbage and its nice to see their teeth getting kicked in.

I'm curious. Did they kill your puppy or are you just immature?

He was a victim of the last great console wars and his parents got killed by a flock of ps4's,they did not stand a chance.