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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Console Wars are mostly dead...

Good. Let them stay dead.
Let them stay dead the next gen, and the next one after that, and again and again.
Lets ignore the 12yo, the trolls and the salty people that want to revive them.



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Have you gone to other sites recently? console wars is still alive and kicking over there. You just don't feel it here because the moderation were so good at they did that they slowly drifted the discussion away, and the fact that at some point they felt so onesided in favor of Nintendo didn't help. I feel like this site have been slowly turning into a Nintendo sanctuary for the last couple of years.



The console wars are alive and well. You just have to check replies in this thread who pretend the Switch isn't a home console because they don't like the competition it brings.



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The only console generation where one of the main competitors wasn't either shooting themselves in the foot or starting with a severe handicapp was the Megadrive/SNES generation. During the NES era the whole industry crashed and Nintendo came from out of nowhere to fill the void. N64 shot itself in the foot with carts instead of CDs, during the PS1/N64 era. Gamecube shot itself in the foot with tiny disks, and no DVD playback ability. Xbox started from the severe handicapp of being an entirely new player to the wars. PS3 shot itself in the foot at launch. XB1 shot itself in the foot with "always online DRM" almost being a thing on the console, and packed in Kinect driving up the price.

Maybe during the PS5/XB2 gen we will finally have a good fight. MS still has terrible 1st party output compared to Sony though. But then again Megadrive exclusives always paled in comparison to Nintendo exclusives, yet Megadrive took almost half the market from SNES. And MS has terrible 3rd party support when compared to PC/PS4. So even if we get a good fight I still expect a 40%:60:% market split between MS and Sony (not counting Nintendo or PC sales here). MS currently has around 29% of the PS4/XB1 market. MS would have to double it's 1st party output, stop making its 1st party games available on PC, and get those 3rd party games that come to PC/PS4, but not Xbox to finally come to Xbox. That's the only way they break past capturing only 40% of the Xbox/Sony market.

As far as Nintendo goes, they will continue to ride high. 60 million by the end of 2020 is pretty much in the bag at this point. They'll keep selling 10 or so million a year in 2021 and 2022. They probably won't quite hit 100 million lifetime, but that won't really matter because the attach rate for Switch games will be insanely high. In other words customers will be extremely satisfied.



I'm kinda glad the "war" isn't as brutal as it's been in the past. At the same time, when it's competitive, companies do all kinds of creative things to win us over. I miss having them fight tooth and nail for our dollar.



Twitter: @d21lewis

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RolStoppable said:
Xxain said:

Dont count on it.

MS has made it clear that Stadia will be their major enemy and that is because Stadia is doing what  MS has wanted to do all along. Those studio's MS acquired were not to bloster strength against Sony, but to ensure enough content for the fight for "games as a service" war. MS could care less about winning the console wars and the only reason they're going with another one is just to keep fans on board to help win that fight.

I definitely think you are underestimating Sony. They will not start from scratch. Sony is making moves that ensure all those useres who loved PS4 or PS in general will have hard time not choosing PS5. PS5 is looking to be very similar to Wii U and Switch where Switch literally ate the Wii U and just built on top of it but in PS5's case its not just tech, but user stats: trophies, games, save data, , PS store, Ps now ext. If you gamed heavily on PS4 why would you not choose PS5? You start where you left off.

Microsoft doesn't need an Xbox-focused strategy to perform better than with the huge blunders they committed with the Xbox One. The execution of the Xbox One was so awful that even a mediocre execution of Scarlett is bound to lead to gains gen over gen.

You overestimate brand loyalty a great deal. History has shown time and time again that the majority of gamers has no problem to leave games, save data and achievements behind, because new consoles are bought to play new games. As for starting from scratch, I clearly refered to installed base and there's no debate that the PS5 will start with sales of 0.

Yes, several generations ago. Times haved changed. We are have entered an age where carrying over stats (trophies, saved data, friendslist, subscriptions, ext) is factor in deciding where to go next and that is just not exclusive to video games. In the yesterdays when you bought a new phone, you essentially had to re add numbers/ apps manually, now assuming you stick with your service they will transfer everything for you. People like that. That keeps people. Those people are also gamers. Gaming is not dominated by dwebs anymore, hell "gamer" does not even have the negative connotation associated with it anymore. Those gamers outnumber Internet gamers. If we have people who would stick to the same phone services for convenience, why would that changed in regards to consoles?   It's not brand loyalty in regards to the normal definition but more like convenience loyalty, " I got all these games, all these trophies, all the friends, put all this money into this account .. why not get a PS5?". It is not because "I love Sony!" but investment.

We did not have cross gen accounts that held an entire gens worth of crap back in the day. Hell, Nintendo still does not have it and I think that is why you don't get the value in it.

Last edited by Xxain - on 02 November 2019

Just wait til next year.



Mnementh said:

I disagree a bit. While I would not overestimate brand loyalty, history also has shown that it exists. Look no further than PS4. At launch the library had a lot of 'definitive ports'. But people bought the system and rebought the games. A friend literally said, he rebought something (don't remember, might have been Tomb Raider) so that he has something to play with his new PS4, while waiting for more games. A lot of PS4 sold on brand loyalty. And the promise of a great library down the road was fulfilled, so I don't see thta brand loyalty destroyed.

But even more counts the network effects Xxain talks about. Network effects are really strong. That is the reason competing with Twitter and Facebook is so hard, people don't want to lose their friends, followers, likes and so on. Same with the friendlist, achievements and more on consoles. And just think about it: you own a PS4 and have PS+. As PS5 releases you might not be interested, but each month you automatically get free games for PS5. The deal looks sweeter as time goes by. Cross-buy means you don't have to rebuy all the smaller download-games you purchased and are available on the new system. And so on. Sony has a lot of this stuff to pull you over to the new system if you are already invested in the previous one.

Nintendo by the way sucks at these effects. Going from Wii to WiiU and 3DS you had to readd your friends. Switch at least offers to send your previous friends an invitation, so it is a bit better. You had always to rebuy all you digital downloads on each Nintendo system, even as the same was available. This was true for virtual console, although I remember Nintendo offered a discount for VC-titles you owned on Wii. Now VC is dropped completely. Miiverse was just canned. Just think about it, if Switch had retained Miiverse, all the WiiU and 3Ds owners would have seen posts and screenshots from games on Switch in their Miiverse. This could have been a pull-factor. So yes, you are right in regards to Nintendo. For Nintendo each new gen starts at zero. But this is a failing of Nintendo, others do that better.

In response to your first paragraph: The plural of anecdote is not data. Of course brand loyalty exists, but the way Xxain and you talk about it overstates it. An anecdote of a PS4 purchase doesn't hold much weight because the alternatives in that generation were very weak. Also, most PS+ subscribers don't download their free games. Even the highly popular Rocket League was downloaded by only about half of the subscribers at the time and that's the best case scenario. Download rates for other games can be expected to be (well) below 10% of active subscribers during any given month, so that's a few million people at best.

What you say about Nintendo consoles should make you realize how little these things matter. The Wii U had full backwards compatibility to retain all digital games and all save data for retail and digital games, but it sold worse than everything else. Switch has no backwards compatibility whatsoever and sells much better than the 3DS. You talk about Miiverse as if it could have been a difference maker, but really, who cares. Nevermind that the abolishment of Miiverse meant that gamers had to share their screenshots and comments on Twitter and Facebook, so even in the context you are using, you'd have to consider the end of Miiverse a positive thing.

Microsoft made big efforts to make the Xbox One backwards compatible and Xbox Live was superior to PSN during the seventh generation, but these things hardly mattered.

The bottom line is that other factors are much, much more important. Don't fall into the trap of "the PS2 owned its generation, so of course the PS3 will be a winner too" or "the 360 has comfortably beaten the PS3 in the USA, so the Xbox brand has America locked down now and in the future." If people don't want to lose their games, saves and achievements, then what they do is keep the old console and buy the new console that they consider the best choice. There's a small portion of the market that is loyal to a brand, but that's not going to turn into a significant amount anytime soon.

But all this is sidetracking. Regardless of this specific discussion, it's clear that the PS5 has to sell at least as well as the PS4 to even have a chance at winning in the ninth generation. That won't be an easy feat when the competition doesn't screw themselves over and that's why the upcoming years will have a lot more console wars than the previous five.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

Xxain said:

Yes, several generations ago. Times haved changed. We are have entered an age where carrying over stats (trophies, saved data, friendslist, subscriptions, ext) is factor in deciding where to go next and that is just not exclusive to video games. In the yesterdays when you bought a new phone, you essentially had to re add numbers/ apps manually, now assuming you stick with your service they will transfer everything for you. People like that. That keeps people. Those people are also gamers. Gaming is not dominated by dwebs anymore, hell "gamer" does not even have the negative connotation associated with it anymore. Those gamers outnumber Internet gamers. If we have people who would stick to the same phone services for convenience, why would that changed in regards to consoles?   It's not brand loyalty in regards to the normal definition but more like convenience loyalty, " I got all these games, all these trophies, all the friends, put all this money into this account .. why not get a PS5?". It is not because "I love Sony!" but investment.

We did not have cross gen accounts that held an entire gens worth of crap back in the day. Hell, Nintendo still does not have it and I think that is why you don't get the value in it.

Because the phone service gives people a new phone for free, but consoles still cost several hundred dollars. People are more inclined to consider their options at that level of monetary investment.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

Its some of the stupidest things hearing about console wars. Let them die. Sick of hearing which platform or game is better because it sold more, its just as petty as hearing someone talk about iPhones vs Galaxies and which sold more. Fanboys will eventually grow up however I fail to see some growing up anytime soon.

I will admit, it can be entertaining but most times its just nonsense and childish or people trying to justify there purchases.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 02 November 2019