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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Console Wars are mostly dead...

chakkra said:

You just don't feel it here because the moderation were so good at they did that they slowly drifted the discussion away, and the fact that at some point they felt so onesided in favor of Nintendo didn't help. I feel like this site have been slowly turning into a Nintendo sanctuary for the last couple of years.

Nice conspiracy theory, but nah. We don't moderate individuals due to their platform preferences.

Deeds said:

Console wars are stupid, immature and petty. However, Sony is f****** garbage and its nice to see their teeth getting kicked in.

Oh, the irony...



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RolStoppable said:
Xxain said:

Dont count on it.

MS has made it clear that Stadia will be their major enemy and that is because Stadia is doing what  MS has wanted to do all along. Those studio's MS acquired were not to bloster strength against Sony, but to ensure enough content for the fight for "games as a service" war. MS could care less about winning the console wars and the only reason they're going with another one is just to keep fans on board to help win that fight.

I definitely think you are underestimating Sony. They will not start from scratch. Sony is making moves that ensure all those useres who loved PS4 or PS in general will have hard time not choosing PS5. PS5 is looking to be very similar to Wii U and Switch where Switch literally ate the Wii U and just built on top of it but in PS5's case its not just tech, but user stats: trophies, games, save data, , PS store, Ps now ext. If you gamed heavily on PS4 why would you not choose PS5? You start where you left off.

Microsoft doesn't need an Xbox-focused strategy to perform better than with the huge blunders they committed with the Xbox One. The execution of the Xbox One was so awful that even a mediocre execution of Scarlett is bound to lead to gains gen over gen.

You overestimate brand loyalty a great deal. History has shown time and time again that the majority of gamers has no problem to leave games, save data and achievements behind, because new consoles are bought to play new games. As for starting from scratch, I clearly refered to installed base and there's no debate that the PS5 will start with sales of 0.

That's hardly a guaranteed thing, though.  XBO isn't exactly going out with a bang like PS3 did, which helped gain gamers' trust and interest, some of who they may have lost at the start, in the PS brand going forward.  It also helped the PS3 crawl past the 360, even though the 360 had almost all the advantages PS4 had early in its lifetime.  It doesn't hurt that there actually is very strong brand loyalty for PS in EU and Japan.  The real point, though, is that Sony didn't just sit around saying, "Please, be excited for next gen," while releasing mediocre game after mediocre game, with maybe one or two good ones in the mix.  Something Xbox has been doing the past couple of years. 

Even if Xbox tries its hardest next gen, there may be tons of gamers who are just done with them, at least in terms of HW.  And we know the boss, MS, is more interested in going into the streaming side of things, something that also may put gamers off.  I mean, if Scarlett doesn't perform well for the first year or two, I wouldn't be surprised if MS pulls the plug on making more, putting those resources into pushing xCloud/GamerPass.  PlayStation consoles, on the other hand, are very important to Sony.

It's also important to note that the PS4 is the first time Plus was required for online play, meaning more people got it and took advantage of the games it provided.  We also have 1M+ subbed to PS Now, which will continue to grow now that the price was halved.  Add in the great exclusive output mentioned above, PS4 B/C, and the fact that PS5 and Scarlett will be pretty damn close in power (with rumors saying PS5 is a little more powerful) and probably price, there is even less reason to switch next gen.

As for your other post, you are correct that B/C isn't ever a main factor to buy a new console, but it does help.  However, in the XBO's case, B/C definitely doesn't matter when it comes out 2 years after launch.



TruckOSaurus said:
The console wars are alive and well. You just have to check replies in this thread who pretend the Switch isn't a home console because they don't like the competition it brings.

Depends on the type of competition you're using to compare.

2:45 - 3:30 

Which is the home console and which is the hybrid? I can't find a vid where a red bull rocket (handheld) joins the race unfortunately.



Amnesia said:
Shiken said:

If and when streaming becomes a thing, it will not be Google.  Stadia is a joke in every way and will be dead on arrival with HEAVY changes to their model.  Anyone who would pay full price for the ability to stream a game that can be removed at anytime is buying into a fool's market.

Personally I would rather have all digital than the trash google is bringing out.  At least then my game is downloaded and can be played even after it gets removed from the store.

But it is not like you will have the choice.

The only way that happens is if people are stupid enough to support it to begin with.



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Conina said:
RolStoppable said:

An anecdote of a PS4 purchase doesn't hold much weight because the alternatives in that generation were very weak. Also, most PS+ subscribers don't download their free games. Even the highly popular Rocket League was downloaded by only about half of the subscribers at the time and that's the best case scenario. Download rates for other games can be expected to be (well) below 10% of active subscribers during any given month, so that's a few million people at best.

Do we have numbers for that? Or is it only an anecdote which doesn't hold much weight?

Yes, we have enough numbers to come to that conclusion.

Rocket League was free on PS+ in July 2015. Approximately 5m free downloads. At the time of the below announcement, Rocket League still had one week of being free left, but said 5m figure also includes purchases of the game on Steam and the PS4.
https://www.polygon.com/2015/7/29/9069709/rocket-league-hits-5m-downloads-more-than-double-that-of-predecessor

Sony didn't provide regular updates for the number of PS+ subscribers in the early years of the PS4, but making an estimate for the number of subscribers in July 2015 isn't too hard. Definitely above 10m subscribers.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/532431/playstation-plus-subscribers-global/

Rocket League gained immense traction, but more than half of all subscribers who could have gotten it for free still didn't bother to download it. Hardly surprising when online multiplayer is the main and commonly sole reason for people to subscribe to PS+. PS+ is a service that launched in 2010, but had only 1m subscribers by the time the PS4 launched. It was only when online multiplayer was put behind the paywall that the service gained traction.

Now you could speculate that less popular games than Rocket League achieve the same or better download rates, but that's neither reasonable nor realistic. The selection of free PS+ titles hasn't been exactly stellar in the last few years either.

thismeintiel said:
RolStoppable said:

Microsoft doesn't need an Xbox-focused strategy to perform better than with the huge blunders they committed with the Xbox One. The execution of the Xbox One was so awful that even a mediocre execution of Scarlett is bound to lead to gains gen over gen.

You overestimate brand loyalty a great deal. History has shown time and time again that the majority of gamers has no problem to leave games, save data and achievements behind, because new consoles are bought to play new games. As for starting from scratch, I clearly refered to installed base and there's no debate that the PS5 will start with sales of 0.

That's hardly a guaranteed thing, though.  XBO isn't exactly going out with a bang like PS3 did, which helped gain gamers' trust and interest, some of who they may have lost at the start, in the PS brand going forward.  It also helped the PS3 crawl past the 360, even though the 360 had almost all the advantages PS4 had early in its lifetime.  It doesn't hurt that there actually is very strong brand loyalty for PS in EU and Japan.  The real point, though, is that Sony didn't just sit around saying, "Please, be excited for next gen," while releasing mediocre game after mediocre game, with maybe one or two good ones in the mix.  Something Xbox has been doing the past couple of years. 

Even if Xbox tries its hardest next gen, there may be tons of gamers who are just done with them, at least in terms of HW.  And we know the boss, MS, is more interested in going into the streaming side of things, something that also may put gamers off.  I mean, if Scarlett doesn't perform well for the first year or two, I wouldn't be surprised if MS pulls the plug on making more, putting those resources into pushing xCloud/GamerPass.  PlayStation consoles, on the other hand, are very important to Sony.

It's also important to note that the PS4 is the first time Plus was required for online play, meaning more people got it and took advantage of the games it provided.  We also have 1M+ subbed to PS Now, which will continue to grow now that the price was halved.  Add in the great exclusive output mentioned above, PS4 B/C, and the fact that PS5 and Scarlett will be pretty damn close in power (with rumors saying PS5 is a little more powerful) and probably price, there is even less reason to switch next gen.

As for your other post, you are correct that B/C isn't ever a main factor to buy a new console, but it does help.  However, in the XBO's case, B/C definitely doesn't matter when it comes out 2 years after launch.

Is that your obligatory "Microsoft will make a hard exit from the console market" prediction?

Anyway, your line of reasoning that it is important to close out a generation with a bang doesn't have merit. What counts is how the new generation starts and that's what decided PS4 vs. Xbox One vs. Wii U. After all, the PS2 finished strong and that didn't help the PS3. The Xbox One wasn't done in by late 360 support, it struggled because of the Xbox One.

Poor late life support doesn't hurt a new console. The latest example of that is Switch which followed the Wii U and its last year had Paper Mario: Color Splash and Tokyo Mirage Sessions. Of course I remember that most of the awful lifetime sales for Switch predictions were in part based on the belief that gamers are done with Nintendo because of the Wii U. But the predecessor is virtually irrelevant for purchase decisions of a next generation console, because people evaluate what they intend to buy, not some kind of related product that isn't in consideration to begin with.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

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I might get flak for this comment but for me, console wars were over since I built my PC in 2011.
Sony has some great games yeah, but their current lineup doesn't interest me.
Xbox the same + I can play them on PC.
Nintendo because I can be kind of an ideologue due to the let's play videos issue.



Immersiveunreality said:
Replicant said:

I'm curious. Did they kill your puppy or are you just immature?

He was a victim of the last great console wars and his parents got killed by a flock of ps4's,they did not stand a chance.

:(

Nah, Sony has been trash since Akio Morita died. This is why Samsung, Apple and LG ate their lunch. People who buy phones, Tvs, etc. realized that Sony was garbage a loooooong time ago. Gamers haven't realized it yet for some weird reason. Gamers who like portables realized it fast though and Japan realized it fast too.

Last edited by Deeds - on 02 November 2019

Pemalite said:
chakkra said:

You just don't feel it here because the moderation were so good at they did that they slowly drifted the discussion away, and the fact that at some point they felt so onesided in favor of Nintendo didn't help. I feel like this site have been slowly turning into a Nintendo sanctuary for the last couple of years.

Nice conspiracy theory, but nah. We don't moderate individuals due to their platform preferences.

To be honest, I'm not up to date on how things are being runned nowadays around here, since I don't frequent the forums nearly as much as I used to, but I remember the days of the "falling of a cliff-guy" (don't remember his name). That guy sometimes got modded simply for doing sales predictions because somehow that was considered "console warring," and yet he got relentlessly bullied for his "falling of a cliff" prediction FOR MONTHS, even after he apologized for it MULTIPLE TIMES and nobody ever got a simple warning for that behavior.



Wow...just wow! Some of these comments. I'm tagging for the sheer entertainment. Especially to Rol's post where he got the most likes. I'm surprised some of the Sony fans didn't call him out for the sneak digs at them concerning Nintendo. Although what he said had valid points, he still kind of went at them. Just an observation. Don't come at me, Rol.



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chakkra said:
Pemalite said:

Nice conspiracy theory, but nah. We don't moderate individuals due to their platform preferences.

To be honest, I'm not up to date on how things are being runned nowadays around here, since I don't frequent the forums nearly as much as I used to, but I remember the days of the "falling of a cliff-guy" (don't remember his name). That guy sometimes got modded simply for doing sales predictions because somehow that was considered "console warring," and yet he got relentlessly bullied for his "falling of a cliff" prediction FOR MONTHS, even after he apologized for it MULTIPLE TIMES and nobody ever got a simple warning for that behavior.

quickrick (that's his name) usually got banned for piles of posts and he didn't even make an effort to deny that his purpose on this site was to post about Switch sales; he actually outright admitted it. When someone spends most of his time to post about a console that he doesn't like, then that's a strong indicator that the user in question is all about stirring the pot.

Regarding his apologies, they were empty words. He would say sorry, then turn around and do the very thing he pledged to avoid on the next day or at times within a few hours. After a while people stop to accept apologies because they've witnessed that they mean absolutely nothing. The final straw for him was that he talked with the mod team about what he had to improve about himself, said that he will try and then only an hour later he created a thread to complain about the mod team.

He periodically returns with new accounts to make the same sales predictions and flawed arguments he always made, so he isn't entirely gone.

As for the general point of the Nintendo sanctuary, that's something that also occured during the Wii years. There is a variety of flawed standard arguments that are made against Nintendo, but the big difference between VGC and other gaming sites is that this site is focused on sales data. Many arguments can be debunked with irrefutable facts and the mod team doesn't get around moderating with sales in mind. When Nintendo's sales are bad, the mod team grants a lot of the benefit of the doubt for arguments because they might have merit when Nintendo's sales are bad - the biggest example for this are the countless "Nintendo should go third party" threads during the Wii U era that could afford to neglect Nintendo's financial state because Wii U sales were bad. But with Switch sales being good, flawed and aggressive arguments are quicker recognized as bullshit, and there's not much distance between bullshit and trolling, so moderations happen considerably faster than, say, three years ago.

However, the number of moderations has decreased notably in recent months anyway, because the forums usually move so slowly now that people can talk out virtually everything. Massive thread derailment isn't possible when the post frequency is as low as it is.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments