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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Console Wars are mostly dead...

The console wars thrive on sore losers and the outcome of the eighth generation hasn't been beneficial for warfare. You'll remember the seventh generation as a lot more intense because Sony was on the losing side and their fanbase has the most trouble to come to grips with defeats. The Nintendo and Xbox camps are more acceptant of lows in the business, so there isn't prolonged resistance to reality. Compare that to the seventh generation where you still have Sony fans to this day who have a hard time to admit that the Wii won and instead come up with reasons how it didn't.

The same reality distortion blends out how it wasn't all sunshine and roses for Sony in the eighth generation. While the PS4 dominated in the home console space, Sony suffered a crushing defeat in the handheld market and made an exit. But eventually the consequences will be realized and people will begin to recognize that the PS5 won't be able to win like the PS4, let alone dominate. When the PS5 launches and starts with an installed base from scratch while Switch has a lead of ~60m units, then launch-aligned comparisons will make people realize that the PS5 has to sell better than the PS4 to even have a shot at beating Switch and winning the generation. Then you have the people who believe that Switch is eighth gen, but for them the problem will be that the PS4's win is in question. So regardless of which generation Switch is put in, Sony fans will have to explain away Nintendo's success and the console wars will be back. We've gone through a long phase of "Switch sales will decline soon, so it will be no threat to Sony's numbers", but with each passing month those people must be getting more worried.

There's also still Microsoft left who can add more spice to the whole thing. A stronger performing Xbox cuts into PS sales, I think that's clear to everyone. Right now is the calm before the storm, but the ninth generation will provide a dramatic shift because we already know a lot about Switch and there can't be an easy win for PS like in the eighth generation.

As for the OP's closing question, the state of VGC is so dire that intense console wars are absolutely needed. More activity means more people, and more people offers the chance that more discussions outside of console wars are created.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

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Console wars are dead because Sony essentially won a loong time ago and cemented it onced they crossed 100mill. Anything after 100mill is just a bonus; they've crossed the finish line. HW is incredibly boring.



well the gen started with 2 of the 3 main console manufacturers fucking themselves over in their own different ways, thus it was an easy lead for the one who didn't do that. What was there to discuss when it was just the same "PS4 is in the lead" from the beginning so it's just sort of been bland. The Switch coming around and being a huge success has been an amazing rebound for Nintendo though and has managed to, no pun intended :P, switch things up with its amazing sales, and Microsoft has been making a lot of good moves the past few years so the industry is at least becoming more interesting again, especially with the arrival of stuff like Stadia. 

console wars are cringe anyway though, but honestly it's not hard to see plenty of it still happening. Just check twitter and look at some of the conversation around Death Stranding. It just seems like it's mainly been moved to things like software, services, etc this gen because like @Xxain said the hardware was basically decided from the beginning 

Last edited by FloatingWaffles - on 02 November 2019

The console wars only seem over, because two of the competitors are asleep.  If Sony and Microsoft were smart, then they would release their next consoles this year.  Instead they simply have declining sales with no next gen console to replace it.  Meanwhile Switch gets all of the customers, both handheld and home, because there is no handheld competition and there is no home competition either.  There won't be any competition until the end of 2020 when the other 2 generation 9 consoles are launched.  These sleeping "giants" are giving the Switch a huge head start.



RolStoppable said:
The console wars thrive on sore losers and the outcome of the eighth generation hasn't been beneficial for warfare. You'll remember the seventh generation as a lot more intense because Sony was on the losing side and their fanbase has the most trouble to come to grips with defeats. The Nintendo and Xbox camps are more acceptant of lows in the business, so there isn't prolonged resistance to reality. Compare that to the seventh generation where you still have Sony fans to this day who have a hard time to admit that the Wii won and instead come up with reasons how it didn't.

The same reality distortion blends out how it wasn't all sunshine and roses for Sony in the eighth generation. While the PS4 dominated in the home console space, Sony suffered a crushing defeat in the handheld market and made an exit. But eventually the consequences will be realized and people will begin to recognize that the PS5 won't be able to win like the PS4, let alone dominate. When the PS5 launches and starts with an installed base from scratch while Switch has a lead of ~60m units, then launch-aligned comparisons will make people realize that the PS5 has to sell better than the PS4 to even have a shot at beating Switch and winning the generation. Then you have the people who believe that Switch is eighth gen, but for them the problem will be that the PS4's win is in question. So regardless of which generation Switch is put in, Sony fans will have to explain away Nintendo's success and the console wars will be back. We've gone through a long phase of "Switch sales will decline soon, so it will be no threat to Sony's numbers", but with each passing month those people must be getting more worried.

There's also still Microsoft left who can add more spice to the whole thing. A stronger performing Xbox cuts into PS sales, I think that's clear to everyone. Right now is the calm before the storm, but the ninth generation will provide a dramatic shift because we already know a lot about Switch and there can't be an easy win for PS like in the eighth generation.

As for the OP's closing question, the state of VGC is so dire that intense console wars are absolutely needed. More activity means more people, and more people offers the chance that more discussions outside of console wars are created.

Dont count on it.

MS has made it clear that Stadia will be their major enemy and that is because Stadia is doing what  MS has wanted to do all along. Those studio's MS acquired were not to bloster strength against Sony, but to ensure enough content for the fight for "games as a service" war. MS could care less about winning the console wars and the only reason they're going with another one is just to keep fans on board to help win that fight.

I definitely think you are underestimating Sony. They will not start from scratch. Sony is making moves that ensure all those useres who loved PS4 or PS in general will have hard time not choosing PS5. PS5 is looking to be very similar to Wii U and Switch where Switch literally ate the Wii U and just built on top of it but in PS5's case its not just tech, but user stats: trophies, games, save data, , PS store, Ps now ext. If you gamed heavily on PS4 why would you not choose PS5? You start where you left off.



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I've always found the idea of console wars ridiculous. And I don't think they will fully die anytime soon due to Twitter. As for the companies, they realized that cross-play is a good financial move, so they went with it.



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 144 million (was 73, then 96, then 113 million, then 125 million)

PS5: 105 million Xbox Series S/X: 60 million

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

Hey, don't talk like that about it!
The poor thing...
*there there* you'll be fine buddy, next gen is just a year away.



Xxain said:

Dont count on it.

MS has made it clear that Stadia will be their major enemy and that is because Stadia is doing what  MS has wanted to do all along. Those studio's MS acquired were not to bloster strength against Sony, but to ensure enough content for the fight for "games as a service" war. MS could care less about winning the console wars and the only reason they're going with another one is just to keep fans on board to help win that fight.

I definitely think you are underestimating Sony. They will not start from scratch. Sony is making moves that ensure all those useres who loved PS4 or PS in general will have hard time not choosing PS5. PS5 is looking to be very similar to Wii U and Switch where Switch literally ate the Wii U and just built on top of it but in PS5's case its not just tech, but user stats: trophies, games, save data, , PS store, Ps now ext. If you gamed heavily on PS4 why would you not choose PS5? You start where you left off.

Microsoft doesn't need an Xbox-focused strategy to perform better than with the huge blunders they committed with the Xbox One. The execution of the Xbox One was so awful that even a mediocre execution of Scarlett is bound to lead to gains gen over gen.

You overestimate brand loyalty a great deal. History has shown time and time again that the majority of gamers has no problem to leave games, save data and achievements behind, because new consoles are bought to play new games. As for starting from scratch, I clearly refered to installed base and there's no debate that the PS5 will start with sales of 0.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Shipments

The_Liquid_Laser said:

The console wars only seem over, because two of the competitors are asleep.  If Sony and Microsoft were smart, then they would release their next consoles this year.  Instead they simply have declining sales with no next gen console to replace it.  Meanwhile Switch gets all of the customers, both handheld and home, because there is no handheld competition and there is no home competition either.  There won't be any competition until the end of 2020 when the other 2 generation 9 consoles are launched.  These sleeping "giants" are giving the Switch a huge head start.

I don't see it a failure on MS and Sonys side to not launch this year. Early launches have historically no big impact on the overall result in the gen. In the case of Sega, it didn't panned out too well. More important is, that:

  • your machine works well without bigger issue
  • you can price it competitively
  • you can produce enough of the hardware
  • you have important games ready for launch

If you look at that, you can find historic examples. XBox360 had the RROD, which probably hurt it's sales. Moreso, the XBox One got flak for it's online system, MS would have been better off if they had made more market research before and dropped the idea. PS3 had a way too high price initially and only recovered after some time. The Wii had shortages for a long time (OK, probably not that Nintendo was not ready, but more that they calculated way too conservatively initially). And WiiU although pushed back a year had a lackluster launch library.

Compare that to Switch: the hardware was well thought out. You can see it in products that released way later and show new usages of the Joycons, which Nintendo must have had in mind. I mean Labo surprised me, because of what you were able to do with the Joycons. And Ring Fit Adventure took many by surprise by being able to measure your heartbeat. usages like that must've been already thought through, as Nintendo released the hardware. Switch was also well priced. Some may have prefered a lower price, but obviously it didn't held back the sales much. Waiting a year and making advantage of fallign prices of hardware components and negotiate good deals on components helps, so in this case Nintendo wasn't forced to ask a higher price, like they had to with 3DS (the price cut lead to initial losses on hardware sales) and WiiU. Same with PS3, to drop the price Sony had to redesign the PS3, dropping backwards compatibility and replacing some components with probably cheaper ones. You also need enough time to bring up production facilities and with more time beforehand you can stack devices to fulfill launch demand. And more time means you can have games ready. Switch had an excellent launch year in regards to hardware. I can see Nintendo planned on five titles as possible system sellers: 1-2-Switch, Zelda, Arms, Splatoon and Mario. Not everything worked as much, but these titles clearly were intended to bring in different groups of customers. And at least Zelda, Splatoon and Mario clearly brought in the gamers. Also Nintendo had already secured some important third-party releases to pad out the library.

So my point is: waiting and releasing a great package is much much better than rushing to launch.



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RolStoppable said:
Xxain said:

Dont count on it.

MS has made it clear that Stadia will be their major enemy and that is because Stadia is doing what  MS has wanted to do all along. Those studio's MS acquired were not to bloster strength against Sony, but to ensure enough content for the fight for "games as a service" war. MS could care less about winning the console wars and the only reason they're going with another one is just to keep fans on board to help win that fight.

I definitely think you are underestimating Sony. They will not start from scratch. Sony is making moves that ensure all those useres who loved PS4 or PS in general will have hard time not choosing PS5. PS5 is looking to be very similar to Wii U and Switch where Switch literally ate the Wii U and just built on top of it but in PS5's case its not just tech, but user stats: trophies, games, save data, , PS store, Ps now ext. If you gamed heavily on PS4 why would you not choose PS5? You start where you left off.

Microsoft doesn't need an Xbox-focused strategy to perform better than with the huge blunders they committed with the Xbox One. The execution of the Xbox One was so awful that even a mediocre execution of Scarlett is bound to lead to gains gen over gen.

You overestimate brand loyalty a great deal. History has shown time and time again that the majority of gamers has no problem to leave games, save data and achievements behind, because new consoles are bought to play new games. As for starting from scratch, I clearly refered to installed base and there's no debate that the PS5 will start with sales of 0.

I disagree a bit. While I would not overestimate brand loyalty, history also has shown that it exists. Look no further than PS4. At launch the library had a lot of 'definitive ports'. But people bought the system and rebought the games. A friend literally said, he rebought something (don't remember, might have been Tomb Raider) so that he has something to play with his new PS4, while waiting for more games. A lot of PS4 sold on brand loyalty. And the promise of a great library down the road was fulfilled, so I don't see thta brand loyalty destroyed.

But even more counts the network effects Xxain talks about. Network effects are really strong. That is the reason competing with Twitter and Facebook is so hard, people don't want to lose their friends, followers, likes and so on. Same with the friendlist, achievements and more on consoles. And just think about it: you own a PS4 and have PS+. As PS5 releases you might not be interested, but each month you automatically get free games for PS5. The deal looks sweeter as time goes by. Cross-buy means you don't have to rebuy all the smaller download-games you purchased and are available on the new system. And so on. Sony has a lot of this stuff to pull you over to the new system if you are already invested in the previous one.

Nintendo by the way sucks at these effects. Going from Wii to WiiU and 3DS you had to readd your friends. Switch at least offers to send your previous friends an invitation, so it is a bit better. You had always to rebuy all you digital downloads on each Nintendo system, even as the same was available. This was true for virtual console, although I remember Nintendo offered a discount for VC-titles you owned on Wii. Now VC is dropped completely. Miiverse was just canned. Just think about it, if Switch had retained Miiverse, all the WiiU and 3Ds owners would have seen posts and screenshots from games on Switch in their Miiverse. This could have been a pull-factor. So yes, you are right in regards to Nintendo. For Nintendo each new gen starts at zero. But this is a failing of Nintendo, others do that better.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]