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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - PlayStation Preservation Team is What Nintendo Should Be Doing Too

General comment. I'm guessing most here haven't created much via their own investment, blood, sweat and tears.



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Bofferbrauer2 said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

And this is not an issue. Like... at all. Do you think every painting ever made in humanity History is preserved in some way? Any obscure movie ever recorded in academic spaces or even domestic productions? Every piece of poetry ever written? 

Why pursue to build such insane archive with every piece of gaming ever commercialy released? Do you have any idea of how many games are made every day for tech students and released on Mobile stores? Do you need to preserve them as well?

There are pieces of gaming that have historical and cultural importance, some have significance because they introduce some design concepts that can be used in future 

But the point is we aren't losing knowledge of how to make games. Knowledge is preserved, technology skills are preserved, modern games inherit the concepts of older relevant games and that's all. We don't need to keep the bits of everything. I understand the concern with older relevant rooms from the 70's and the 80's that might be relevant and are being lost, got it. But modern games? They definitely don't need any kind of expensive protection 

Indeed this game preservation nonsense is nothing but a buzzword for companies to profit over older games. It's to create a perceived monetary value of importance based on historical value which is somewhat how other piece of arts get more value with time. Is something Nintendo realized during seventh gen and other companies ignored for so long: Console gamers are slowly approaching the 40-50 years old demographic 

What does it mean? Well, let's say boomers have a tendency to think older = better to pretty much everything, now it's gen X who is approaching the second half of their lifes and they are starting to repeating Boomers behavior, their preferences for games are no exception

To exploit the feelings of nostalgia and remind their golden years of childhood they need to ensure past games can still run and play alright  that's why they are finally developing those emulation teams to make older games playable again, with some fees and costs of course 

Off-topic. Anecdotal, but I find very interesting using this forum because people here are, in average, older than most of my gaming circle (who are basically people from 16 to 24). You guys help me to give perspective people from my generation and younger than me absolutely don't share. People of my age would never, ever, think not playing an online game ever again to be a concern. 

I think the problem is that we're not talking about the same thing.

With preservation of video games, I'm not talking just about the games themselves, but about their source code.

Just look at the part I bolded from your response. The answer is clearly no. But you don't just take a picture of the Mona Lisa with a camera and put it online and then claim that this way, the painting has been preserved. Yet this is what I read here and what so many seem to understand when they say video game conservation.

As for the off-topic: Glad to give you a view from another angle and perspective.

I see. In this sense I agree, we need reliable way to preserve the source code and assets to be able to make the games run again. Or at least the runs so they can be run with emulation. Just like we now have digital files to print books as we wish 

That's said, seems more a technology and scientific problem how what is the best way to keep games preserved rather than deciding what games are going to be preserved 



hinch said:
Doctor_MG said:

You're mixing up preservation with distribution. Nintendo preserves their games. That's how they were able to release an almost 30 year old incomplete game by the name of starfox 2. 

Nintendo is probably one of the best at preserving their old code, actually. They just don't distribute that code to the masses. In fact, rumor has it, they have the source code and/or a final ROM for every game that has ever released on any of their consoles.

Regarding your last paragraph.. This probably explains why Nintendo's rereleases, remasters and remakes are so good. All devs should do this imo *Cough-SquareEnix-cough* https://screenrant.com/final-fantasy-source-code-lost-no-leaks-square/

That's what happened when Square-Enix decided to torture themselves when they already interested in re-releasing legacy games. It was mass "WTF SQUARE-ENIX HOW AND WHY" comments.

Oh brother, i can't forget this news. https://www.gameskinny.com/yx4a7/why-kingdom-hearts-hd-15-remix-was-made-from-scratch



Mnementh said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

Disney can still making use of Mickey character even if their very first movies become public property 

The point of culture pieces becoming public is to recognize them as piece of arts where their cultural and historical values offset their economical value. Public domain artwork is great because can be freely used for educational and recreational purposes. Not everything must be subject of capitalism, there are more important things in society than providing infinite money for privileged people who just have the luck to born in the families as past artists. I personally couldn't care less if JK Rowlling great-great-great-great children won't profit from her work

For once, most of theatrical plays are based on public domain plays. Imagine how dreadful would be the state of Theater as a art field if there was no public domain stories and they absolutely need to pay copyrights for children plays on high school? 

Just think: if the descendants of Homer still owned the rights to the Odyssee, the battle of Troy and Iason and the Argonauts. So many movies and games and books couldn't exist.

Indeed a very good insight. Many of modern media are created on the roots on public domain pieces. Can't imagine how art would develop with copyright was something perennial. 

Personally excited to see Hobbits as a playable species on MMO XD 



Chrkeller said:

General comment. I'm guessing most here haven't created much via their own investment, blood, sweat and tears.

I do. I create software. And I love open source, sharing my work. But that is beyond the point, you seem to put forward the idea that enforcing preservation and archival takes away the creation from the creator. It does not. And as I said before, it is already done for print publishing and as I think also for movies. So it isn't a new or revolutionary idea. Just stop pretending that preservation somehow takes away from the creator, it doesn't.



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IcaroRibeiro said:
Mnementh said:

Just think: if the descendants of Homer still owned the rights to the Odyssee, the battle of Troy and Iason and the Argonauts. So many movies and games and books couldn't exist.

Indeed a very good insight. Many of modern media are created on the roots on public domain pieces. Can't imagine how art would develop with copyright was something perennial. 

Personally excited to see Hobbits as a playable species on MMO XD 

I personally don't care about Hobbits, but good for fans of the world once it enters public domain. I enjoyed Hades though, which exactly is based on public domain stories. And it is great. That is the thing: pieces of art can build on each other.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

Chrkeller said:

General comment. I'm guessing most here haven't created much via their own investment, blood, sweat and tears.

OK, because I don’t think we’d have a disagreement. Under the model I feel would be ideal, if you create a chair, you can do with it whatever you want. Make a YouTube video and say “I created the best fucking chair in the world, and now I’m burning it, motherfuckers!” And have fun. That’s your right. Same with a manuscript you’ve written, or a painting you’ve painted.

What I’m talking about is relationship between creators, publishers, and audience. Or manufacturers if we’re talking about chairs. Particularly, the limitations on the rights of the publisher/manufacturer to destroy another person’s work. The manufacturer’s job is the manufacturing and reproduction of the chair. They’d have the responsibility to preserve the blueprints you sold them for manufacturing purposes, and a master copy of the chair (which doubles as the asset file repository for a game). They wouldn’t have the right to destroy your creation without your consent - that goes beyond the scope of the manufacturer’s contract. But they would have the right to sell the manufacturing rights to another party, and that party would be acquiring all the responsibility.

Since you, as the creator sold the rights of reproduction, you’d no longer have the rights yourself for reproduction - so you can’t authorize others to reproduce it without the consent of the manufacturer. If the manufacturer wishes to destroy copies of the chair and its blueprints, they must first seek your approval to destroy your creation. You didn’t sell them the rights to eliminate your work, you sold them the rights to reproduce and distribute. If they ask about the destruction, you could say “Sure, but this chair means a lot to be, 25 million dollars or get the fuck off my property.” But, otherwise, if the manufacturer abandons the reproduction of the chair (perhaps by their choice, or when a certain timeframe of inaction expires) and hasn’t received the consent of the creator to destroy it, then they must turn it over to the public.

In short:
Creator = rights to destroy the chair and its blueprints.
Manufacturer = rights to reproduce the chair, but must maintain a master copy and copies of the blueprints.
Abandonment = rights of reproduction and blueprints transfer to the public domain.
Public = May reproduce the chair if it is public domain. May not reproduce the chair if not public domain, and not authorized.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 29 April 2022

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IcaroRibeiro said:

And this is not an issue. Like... at all. Do you think every painting ever made in humanity History is preserved in some way? Any obscure movie ever recorded in academic spaces or even domestic productions? Every piece of poetry ever written? 

Why pursue to build such insane archive with every piece of gaming ever commercialy released? Do you have any idea of how many games are made every day for tech students and released on Mobile stores? Do you need to preserve them as well?

There are pieces of gaming that have historical and cultural importance, some have significance because they introduce some design concepts that can be used in future 

But the point is we aren't losing knowledge of how to make games. Knowledge is preserved, technology skills are preserved, modern games inherit the concepts of older relevant games and that's all. We don't need to keep the bits of everything. I understand the concern with older relevant rooms from the 70's and the 80's that might be relevant and are being lost, got it. But modern games? They definitely don't need any kind of expensive protection 

Indeed this game preservation nonsense is nothing but a buzzword for companies to profit over older games. It's to create a perceived monetary value of importance based on historical value which is somewhat how other piece of arts get more value with time. Is something Nintendo realized during seventh gen and other companies ignored for so long: Console gamers are slowly approaching the 40-50 years old demographic 

What does it mean? Well, let's say boomers have a tendency to think older = better to pretty much everything, now it's gen X who is approaching the second half of their lifes and they are starting to repeating Boomers behavior, their preferences for games are no exception

To exploit the feelings of nostalgia and remind their golden years of childhood they need to ensure past games can still run and play alright  that's why they are finally developing those emulation teams to make older games playable again, with some fees and costs of course 

Off-topic. Anecdotal, but I find very interesting using this forum because people here are, in average, older than most of my gaming circle (who are basically people from 16 to 24). You guys help me to give perspective people from my generation and younger than me absolutely don't share. People of my age would never, ever, think not playing an online game ever again to be a concern. 

The bolded is about the only part I will disagree with.  Far more often I hear about "game preservation" from pirates trying to justify their actions.



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Mnementh said:
Chrkeller said:

General comment. I'm guessing most here haven't created much via their own investment, blood, sweat and tears.

I do. I create software. And I love open source, sharing my work. But that is beyond the point, you seem to put forward the idea that enforcing preservation and archival takes away the creation from the creator. It does not. And as I said before, it is already done for print publishing and as I think also for movies. So it isn't a new or revolutionary idea. Just stop pretending that preservation somehow takes away from the creator, it doesn't.

We will have to agree to disagree.  I believe in ownership.  If I create something I own it and I can pass it to my kids.  Nobody has the right to demand I turn my creation over regardless of the reason.  But to each their own.

And this next comment is not directed at you but a general comment...  I would wager a great many people here don't mean preservation as in the games are locked in a vault for historical archives...  what they really mean is games online for free that they can download/emulate.  Just my 2 cents, but I'm not buying the cover story from most in this thread.  Again, not directed at you.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 29 April 2022

Doctor_MG said:
CaptainExplosion said:

This is why we need to preserve old games, and why Nintendo should have a game preservation team just like PlayStation!!

You're mixing up preservation with distribution. Nintendo preserves their games. That's how they were able to release an almost 30 year old incomplete game by the name of starfox 2. 

Nintendo is probably one of the best at preserving their old code, actually. They just don't distribute that code to the masses. In fact, rumor has it, they have the source code and/or a final ROM for every game that has ever released on any of their consoles.

Just want to reinforce this very good point.  Nintendo might be the best there is at preserving old games.  Doesn't mean they have the rights to make them available though.

https://www.nintendo.destructoid.com/nintendo-might-have-code-or-rom-for-every-game-made-on-all-its-consoles/

Last edited by theRepublic - on 29 April 2022

Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (2014/2017)
Switch - Bastion (2011/2018)
Wii U - Darksiders: Warmastered Edition (2010/2017)
3DS - Pushmo (2011)
3DS - New Super Mario Bros. 2 (2012)
Mobile - The Simpson's Tapped Out and Yugioh Duel Links