Under what entitlement would the public have in owning something they did not create? If I build a chair... and I don't want my chair anymore, I have to give it to somebody????
Under what entitlement would the public have in owning something they did not create? If I build a chair... and I don't want my chair anymore, I have to give it to somebody????
Chrkeller said: Under what entitlement would the public have in owning something they did not create? If I build a chair... and I don't want my chair anymore, I have to give it to somebody???? |
Sometimes I think interest is more important than private interest. Like, should Lord of the Rings copyright belongs to companies and Tolkien descendents forever or should they, eventually, become public property?
This not a matter of discussion. Laws have long ago settled books like that will become public domain once the license expires
I have no idea what was settled for games though because I believe the copyright belongs to companies and not creators and a company can survive for centuries. I don't think games should remain private property forever though and must become public eventually
But alas, this is a pretty big discussion. I have no background in laws to elaborate a solid position here
IcaroRibeiro said:
Sometimes I think interest is more important than private interest. Like, should Lord of the Rings copyright belongs to companies and Tolkien descendents forever or should they, eventually, become public property? This not a matter of discussion. Laws have long ago settled books like that will become public domain once the license expires I have no idea what was settled for games though because I believe the copyright belongs to companies and not creators and a company can survive for centuries. I don't think games should remain private property forever though and must become public eventually But alas, this is a pretty big discussion. I have no background in laws to elaborate a solid position here |
I read about it briefly yesterday, it seems said license is 95 years. So..... at some point it will be public, but not in my lifetime.
Personally I think Tolken copy right belongs to the family until they decide to sell it. It can be theirs forever. It is their property. I don't know how old Mickey Mouse is, but it still makes money for Disney. It wouldn't be right to steal their property just because somebody wants it. How old is Coca Cola? Should Coke be stripped of their money making cow?
So, back when the Snes Mini and also when the NSO were unveiled many games kept being mentioned on a lot of peoples' wishlist, and one of them was Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 4: Turtles in Time. Gamers all over the world love it since 1992, but the most likely explanation for its' absence are licensing problems.
Now it is going to be part of the Cowabunga Collection that will be released someday. I want it.
I think the question here is to define which games should and should not be preserved. A tough decision that I would never want to be held accountable for. I do want TMNT4, however, and I know I'm not the only one.
Chrkeller said:
I read about it briefly yesterday, it seems said license is 95 years. So..... at some point it will be public, but not in my lifetime. Personally I think Tolken copy right belongs to the family until they decide to sell it. It can be theirs forever. It is their property. I don't know how old Mickey Mouse is, but it still makes money for Disney. It wouldn't be right to steal their property just because somebody wants it. How old is Coca Cola? Should Coke be stripped of their money making cow? |
Disney can still making use of Mickey character even if their very first movies become public property
The point of culture pieces becoming public is to recognize them as piece of arts where their cultural and historical values offset their economical value. Public domain artwork is great because can be freely used for educational and recreational purposes. Not everything must be subject of capitalism, there are more important things in society than providing infinite money for privileged people who just have the luck to born in the families as past artists. I personally couldn't care less if JK Rowlling great-great-great-great children won't profit from her work
For once, most of theatrical plays are based on public domain plays. Imagine how dreadful would be the state of Theater as a art field if there was no public domain stories and they absolutely need to pay copyrights for children plays on high school?
Last edited by IcaroRibeiro - on 29 April 2022Chrkeller said: Under what entitlement would the public have in owning something they did not create? If I build a chair... and I don't want my chair anymore, I have to give it to somebody???? |
This is actually done for other media already. Under german law print publishers have to give a copy of their published print work to the Deutsche Nationalbibliothek (german national library) for archival. Internationally similar laws exist, I think in the US it is the Library of Congress that gets the archival copies. This also isn't a big intrusion into the rights of the company, as they already produce many copies. I think similar laws exist for movies.
Similarly it could work for games. That idea isn't especially strange, seeing as this already happens for other media. I don't know why many in this thread consider this idea impossible.
IcaroRibeiro said:
Sometimes I think interest is more important than private interest. Like, should Lord of the Rings copyright belongs to companies and Tolkien descendents forever or should they, eventually, become public property? This not a matter of discussion. Laws have long ago settled books like that will become public domain once the license expires I have no idea what was settled for games though because I believe the copyright belongs to companies and not creators and a company can survive for centuries. I don't think games should remain private property forever though and must become public eventually But alas, this is a pretty big discussion. I have no background in laws to elaborate a solid position here |
In european copyright the rights holder can only be a natural person, not a company. A company can hold exclusive marketing rights, but not the copyright itself. For many creations multiple creators are named, like movies. In american law the copyright term starts to expire with the creation of the work, not the death of the author.
IcaroRibeiro said:
Disney can still making use of Mickey character even if their very first movies become public property The point of culture pieces becoming public is to recognize them as piece of arts where their cultural and historical values offset their economical value. Public domain artwork is great because can be freely used for educational and recreational purposes. Not everything must be subject of capitalism, there are more important things in society than providing infinite money for privileged people who just have the luck to born in the families as past artists. I personally couldn't care less if JK Rowlling great-great-great-great children won't profit from her work For once, most of theatrical plays are based on public domain plays. Imagine how dreadful would be the state of Theater as a art field if there was no public domain stories and they absolutely need to pay copyrights for children plays on high school? |
Just think: if the descendants of Homer still owned the rights to the Odyssee, the battle of Troy and Iason and the Argonauts. So many movies and games and books couldn't exist.
IcaroRibeiro said:
And this is not an issue. Like... at all. Do you think every painting ever made in humanity History is preserved in some way? Any obscure movie ever recorded in academic spaces or even domestic productions? Every piece of poetry ever written? Why pursue to build such insane archive with every piece of gaming ever commercialy released? Do you have any idea of how many games are made every day for tech students and released on Mobile stores? Do you need to preserve them as well? There are pieces of gaming that have historical and cultural importance, some have significance because they introduce some design concepts that can be used in future But the point is we aren't losing knowledge of how to make games. Knowledge is preserved, technology skills are preserved, modern games inherit the concepts of older relevant games and that's all. We don't need to keep the bits of everything. I understand the concern with older relevant rooms from the 70's and the 80's that might be relevant and are being lost, got it. But modern games? They definitely don't need any kind of expensive protection Indeed this game preservation nonsense is nothing but a buzzword for companies to profit over older games. It's to create a perceived monetary value of importance based on historical value which is somewhat how other piece of arts get more value with time. Is something Nintendo realized during seventh gen and other companies ignored for so long: Console gamers are slowly approaching the 40-50 years old demographic What does it mean? Well, let's say boomers have a tendency to think older = better to pretty much everything, now it's gen X who is approaching the second half of their lifes and they are starting to repeating Boomers behavior, their preferences for games are no exception To exploit the feelings of nostalgia and remind their golden years of childhood they need to ensure past games can still run and play alright that's why they are finally developing those emulation teams to make older games playable again, with some fees and costs of course Off-topic. Anecdotal, but I find very interesting using this forum because people here are, in average, older than most of my gaming circle (who are basically people from 16 to 24). You guys help me to give perspective people from my generation and younger than me absolutely don't share. People of my age would never, ever, think not playing an online game ever again to be a concern. |
I think the problem is that we're not talking about the same thing.
With preservation of video games, I'm not talking just about the games themselves, but about their source code.
Just look at the part I bolded from your response. The answer is clearly no. But you don't just take a picture of the Mona Lisa with a camera and put it online and then claim that this way, the painting has been preserved. Yet this is what I read here and what so many seem to understand when they say video game conservation.
As for the off-topic: Glad to give you a view from another angle and perspective.
The Nintendo eShop rating Thread: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=237454
List as Google Doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aW2hXQT1TheElVS7z-F3pP-7nbqdrDqWNTxl6JoJWBY/edit?usp=sharing
The Steam/GOG key gifting thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242024/the-steamgog-key-gifting-thread/1/
Chrkeller said: Under what entitlement would the public have in owning something they did not create? If I build a chair... and I don't want my chair anymore, I have to give it to somebody???? |
Is this a response to me?
I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.