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Forums - Politics Discussion - A reactionary post, I guess.

JWeinCom said:

So... we don't need Covid restrictions... yet we're also going to criticize states for easing Covid restrictions. O_o... Alright then. If new data was coming out, then one would expect mandates to be dropped at similar times. But damned if you do, damned if you don't.

First of all, let me just say that I find it altogether appropriate that it's you, one of this forum's most ban-happy contributors, who has emerged as the thread's principal champion of indefinite Covid restrictions. There's a fitting consistency of logic to the fact that one of the most controlling people on this entire message board is also the most passionate and popular enthusiast for restricting other people's lives in other ways as well. I guess it just takes a more authoritarian mindset than I possess.

That said, a lot's been added to this thread since my visit yesterday, but since you seem to have emerged as the principal champion of indefinite Covid restrictions, and seeing as this was your most popular reply, and seeing as it was directed at me, I think I'll just reply to this first post you made here. I'll divide it up into chunks for ease of reading. 

So to respond to the part quoted above...what the hell are you even talking about? I've done nothing but voice relief that 11 U.S. states have announced plans to ease their masking requirements since Monday. How do you get duplicitousness out of that? You're just fabricating a contradictory position that I'm not taking.

(How did this idiotic post get 9 up-votes? Just for being hostile?)

JWeinCom said:


What is not included in this post is a scientific reason why it is a good time to end mask mandates. Just, that it's not completely comfortable, and you don't like them. I remember when 3,000 or so people died on 9/11. We changed air travel restrictions completely. I can't go into the Magic fucking Kingdom without a bag search and metal detector. 3,000 people died yesterday from Covid. But oh noes we're not going to put cloth on our face. AND ARE YOU TELLING ME I HAVE TO GO TO THE PHARMACY AND GET A SHOT THREE TIMES?! JUST TO PROTECT MYSELF FROM SOMETHING THAT HASN'T EVEN KILLED SIX MILLION PEOPLE YET?! THIS IS MADNESS!

Fun fact. When the shark attacks that inspired the movie Jaws happened, support for President Wilson in the area affected dropped sharply. Because that's what people do. When they're frustrated, they blame whoever is in charge, whether or not it's actually their fault. Of course, I'm not saying it isn't, but if it is, there's no reason to believe that in the OP.

So, then you turn into Fox News who says you're right to be pissed off, and here are some other things to be pissed off about. And then... this, is the end result. A little over a year ago, the Republican party literally tried to overthrow Democracy. And they are still in support of that (or at least too big of pussies to call it what it was). They do not think you should have control over your uterus. If they had their way, you wouldn't be able to choose the gender of your partner. But, at least they'll let your face be comfy womfy while thousands of people die every day.

There is not a shred of logic or rationality to be found here. Pure emotional reasoning. Angry=/=justified.

Also... it's a fucking mask. You're in Texas. I'm in New York. Our policies are far worse than yours. I ride mass transit to in person school with tons of people in crammed trains. I eat lunch at restaurants with my classmates. I can go to the movies. I go to the gym regularly. I literally can't think of anything I couldn't do if I wanted to do. I just have to put a piece of fabric over my face at times. We're closing on a million deaths, and this is somehow a bridge too far. 

...You know, one could conclude that your response here didn't exactly epitomize calm, sobriety, or rationality itself. I mean why do I feel like you might slit the throat of the next maskless person you see in the name of saving lives?

I think I'll skip the absurd detours involving 9/11 and the Jaws shark (to both of which I think we could also say there was a national overreaction) and just point out and focus on the part where you explain how I don't have the right to disagree with you or to be upset because January 6th happened and so forth.

Look, when the science around masking was unclear, I was okay with lockdowns. Not happy, but okay, because I didn't know what else could be done to mitigate the virus' spread. As the science around masking became clear, I favored that as an alternative. Once vaccines became available, I favored those as an alternative to compulsory masking. That has been the evolution of my thought pattern on Covid measures over time. You make it sound as though I'm a mask-burning anti-vaxxer who believes in Dr. Joe Rogan medical science and doesn't care how many people die. You can treat me like I'm an intelligent human being with a soul for a change. Thanks.

There has been a very real and serious human cost stemming not only from this goddamn virus, but also from the mitigation measures imposed to control it. I think getting a visual of that cost might help put matters more in perspective for you. Nevada lifted their indoor masking requirements the other day. Here's a glimpse of what the response looked like inside one school room in Las Vegas:



Look at all those divided opinions! Those are human beings too. I don't see how one can look at that and feel like the wrong decision was made here.

97% of American teachers report that their students have experienced learning loss. From May 2020 to April 2021, the U.S. recorded over 100,000 drug overdose deaths, a 28.5% increase from the 78,000 deaths that were recorded in the previous 12-month period, according to CDC data, which I believe is also an all-time record. Domestic violence jumped 8.1% during the lockdown period in 2020, which saw many women in particular effectively trapped at home with abusive partners. Also, we shut the economy down, displacing at least 15% of our workforce and exacerbating supply chain disruptions in the process, in turn partly yielding the current 40-year high price inflation rate! (Another part of that is corporate price gouging, but that is another issue for another time.) The most worrisome human cost though has been the emergence of a major mental health crisis resulting from both the pandemic itself but considerably exacerbated by related restrictions on life. (Also, I can't recommend that last article enough. The New York Times really is the best...when they want to be.) That, the mental health crisis, is the big one in my opinion, as its victims are far more numerous than those of the coronavirus itself and include me. People cannot live on high alert for years and remain unscathed. I think it would just be nice to see topics other than Covid in the news more often, frankly. That would help people's mental well-being. And no, it's not "just" a mask. It's a symbol, and a constant reminder, of a traumatizing era that I very much need to be in the past, speaking of which. If to add just one more statistic to all this that helps to concentrate the magnitude of the current mental health crisis facing this country, nay the world, suicide attempts by American teenage girls have risen 50% since the pandemic began.

Anyway, you act like that's all nothing; as though these measures stopped nearly a million people from dying or something. That even mitigation as brutal and costly as this has proven insufficient to yield a better outcome is a testament to exactly how important it really is for triple-vaxxed people like yours truly to go on masking at work every day: not very. And frankly, my company's masking policy isn't about public health anyway, it's about public relations. Albersons policy is to follow CDC guidelines. Masking is required for employees because the CDC recommends it. The CDC is currently controlled by the Biden Administration. You can see my political relationship to these calls hence. Anyway, you can tell it's not about public health because if it were then our customers, who are far less likely to be vaccinated than we are (nearly all of us who work in the store are vaxxed), would have to mask as well, or even perhaps instead. That's what gets to me about it; that it's clearly not about public health. I mean our store managers are maskless half the day, like every time they're out of plain view of customers practically. When that winter storm hit last last week and only a few people came in, none of us wore masks, including the management. We are past that stage of this psychologically. It's just done for show so that people like you won't go off like this on us and physically assault somebody.

P.S. If you are indeed using "cloth" masks, you might as well not bother because they provide almost no protection anyway.

P.P.S. Actually, you'd be surprised by how Republican politics have evolved in recent years when it comes to gay rights. Gay rights used to be one of my biggest, most strongly felt reasons for opposing the GOP, but according to Gallup's most recent survey on the subject, which was released last summer, 55% of Republicans today support same-sex marriage. I can feel the cultural shift even in my very conservative area too, as I finally felt safe enough to come out last year in an offline capacity. These days I would say my biggest political differences with the right when it comes to cultural issues are abortion (which doesn't directly affect me as a lesbian) and gun policy (while I'm a gun-owning non-fanatic about this issue, I think the current context of rising violent crime shows that stricter gun laws are needed now more than ever). Well that and criminal justice reform, which I do actually support despite how I may come off sometimes; just not in all the ways it's currently being pursued.

JWeinCom said:

Edit: Since the subject of bail came up, I invite anyone who thinks bail reform is a bad thing to go to https://finesandfeesjusticecenter.org/. It's obviously a biased source, but it contains litigation. Look at the court cases, and the scenarious where bail has been used basically as extortion for minor offenses like driving without registration. It's fucking gross beyond belief. If the bail system was functioning as intended, there would be no need for reform. Unfortunately, it has been used in many localities to extort money from those least able to pay, without informing them of their rights, or providing them with any legal counsel. Bail reform is not because people are being big ol' softees who want to let violent criminals rape your children, it's because the people in charge have turned it into a for-profit enterprise, and that municipalities are being sued and losing a fuck ton of money. 

It would be entirely too easy to respond to this. I would just challenge you to find a place where broad-based bail reduction policies or policies eliminating bail have met with something other than a spike in crime rates, including violent crime, because it seems like I really could just name any major city in this country to make my case on that, as well as vis-a-vis so many newly-elected progressive district attorneys' penchant for systematically refusing to enforce many, many laws and more.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 14 February 2022

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Jaicee should've responded to nemo37.



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

Metallox said:

Jaicee should've responded to nemo37.

She will get around to it probably tomorrow, but is currently tired from authoring the last reply.

I found Nemo's reply a lot less obnoxious, so less motivating I guess you might say. Now that I've vented, I'll be in a better place to respond with appropriate calm to Nemo's calmer and much more reasonable post.



Jaicee said:
JWeinCom said:

So... we don't need Covid restrictions... yet we're also going to criticize states for easing Covid restrictions. O_o... Alright then. If new data was coming out, then one would expect mandates to be dropped at similar times. But damned if you do, damned if you don't.

First of all, let me just say that I find it altogether appropriate that it's you, one of this forum's most ban-happy contributors, who has emerged as the thread's principal champion of indefinite Covid restrictions. There's a fitting consistency of logic to the fact that one of the most controlling people on this entire message board is also the most passionate and popular enthusiast for restricting other people's lives in other ways as well. I guess it just takes a more authoritarian mindset than I possess.

That said, a lot's been added to this thread since my visit yesterday, but since you seem to have emerged as the principal champion of indefinite Covid restrictions, and seeing as this was your most popular reply, and seeing as it was directed at me, I think I'll just reply to this first post you made here. I'll divide it up into chunks for ease of reading. 

So to respond to the part quoted above...what the hell are you even talking about? I've done nothing but voice relief that 11 U.S. states have announced plans to ease their masking requirements since Monday. How do you get duplicitousness out of that? You're just fabricating a contradictory position that I'm not taking.

(How did this idiotic post get 9 up-votes? Just for being hostile?)

JWeinCom said:


What is not included in this post is a scientific reason why it is a good time to end mask mandates. Just, that it's not completely comfortable, and you don't like them. I remember when 3,000 or so people died on 9/11. We changed air travel restrictions completely. I can't go into the Magic fucking Kingdom without a bag search and metal detector. 3,000 people died yesterday from Covid. But oh noes we're not going to put cloth on our face. AND ARE YOU TELLING ME I HAVE TO GO TO THE PHARMACY AND GET A SHOT THREE TIMES?! JUST TO PROTECT MYSELF FROM SOMETHING THAT HASN'T EVEN KILLED SIX MILLION PEOPLE YET?! THIS IS MADNESS!

Fun fact. When the shark attacks that inspired the movie Jaws happened, support for President Wilson in the area affected dropped sharply. Because that's what people do. When they're frustrated, they blame whoever is in charge, whether or not it's actually their fault. Of course, I'm not saying it isn't, but if it is, there's no reason to believe that in the OP.

So, then you turn into Fox News who says you're right to be pissed off, and here are some other things to be pissed off about. And then... this, is the end result. A little over a year ago, the Republican party literally tried to overthrow Democracy. And they are still in support of that (or at least too big of pussies to call it what it was). They do not think you should have control over your uterus. If they had their way, you wouldn't be able to choose the gender of your partner. But, at least they'll let your face be comfy womfy while thousands of people die every day.

There is not a shred of logic or rationality to be found here. Pure emotional reasoning. Angry=/=justified.

Also... it's a fucking mask. You're in Texas. I'm in New York. Our policies are far worse than yours. I ride mass transit to in person school with tons of people in crammed trains. I eat lunch at restaurants with my classmates. I can go to the movies. I go to the gym regularly. I literally can't think of anything I couldn't do if I wanted to do. I just have to put a piece of fabric over my face at times. We're closing on a million deaths, and this is somehow a bridge too far. 

...You know, one could conclude that your response here didn't exactly epitomize calm, sobriety, or rationality itself. I mean why do I feel like you might slit the throat of the next maskless person you see in the name of saving lives?

I think I'll skip the absurd detours involving 9/11 and the Jaws shark (to both of which I think we could also say there was a national overreaction) and just point out and focus on the part where you explain how I don't have the right to disagree with you or to be upset because January 6th happened and so forth.

Look, when the science around masking was unclear, I was okay with lockdowns. Not happy, but okay, because I didn't know what else could be done to mitigate the virus' spread. As the science around masking became clear, I favored that as an alternative. Once vaccines became available, I favored those as an alternative to compulsory masking. That has been the evolution of my thought pattern on Covid measures over time. You make it sound as though I'm a mask-burning anti-vaxxer who believes in Dr. Joe Rogan science and doesn't care how many people die. You can treat me like I'm an intelligent human being with a soul for a change. Thanks.

There has been a very real and serious human cost stemming not only from this goddamn virus, but also from the mitigation measures imposed to control it. I think getting a visual of that cost might help put matters more in perspective for you. Nevada lifted their indoor masking requirements the other day. Here's a glimpse of what the response looked like inside one school room in Las Vegas:



Look at all those divided opinions! Those are human beings too. I don't see how one can look at that and feel like the wrong decision was made here.

97% of American teachers report that their students have experienced learning loss. From May 2020 to April 2021, the U.S. recorded over 100,000 drug overdose deaths, a 28.5% increase from the 78,000 deaths that were recorded in the previous 12-month period, according to CDC data, which I believe is also an all-time record. Domestic violence jumped 8.1% during the lockdown period in 2020, which saw many women in particular effectively trapped at home with abusive partners. Also, we shut the economy down, displacing at least 15% of our workforce and exacerbating supply chain disruptions in the process, in turn partly yielding the current 40-year high price inflation rate! (Another part of that is corporate price gouging, but that is another issue for another time.) The most worrisome human cost though has been the emergence of a major mental health crisis resulting from both the pandemic itself but considerably exacerbated by related restrictions on life. (Also, I can't recommend that last article enough. The New York Times really is the best...when they want to be.) That, the mental health crisis, is the big one in my opinion, as its victims are far more numerous than those of the coronavirus itself and include me. People cannot live on high alert for years and remain unscathed. I think it would just be nice to see topics other than Covid in the news more often, frankly. That would help people's mental well-being. And no, it's not "just" a mask. It's a symbol, and a constant reminder, of a traumatizing era that I very much need to be in the past, speaking of which.

Anyway, you act like that's all nothing; as though these measures stopped nearly a million people from dying or something. That even mitigation as brutal and costly as this has proven insufficient to yield a better outcome is a testament to exactly how important it really is for triple-vaxxed people like yours truly to go on masking at work every day: not very. And frankly, my company's masking policy isn't about public health anyway, it's about public relations. Albersons policy is to follow CDC guidelines. Masking is required for employees because the CDC recommends it. The CDC is currently controlled by the Biden Administration. You can see my political relationship to these calls hence. Anyway, you can tell it's not about public health because if it were then our customers, who are far less likely to be vaccinated than we are (nearly all of us who work in the store are vaxxed), would have to mask as well, or even perhaps instead. That's what gets to me about it; that it's clearly not about public health. I mean our store managers are maskless half the day, like every time they're out of plain view of customers practically. When that winter storm hit last last week and only a few people came in, none of us wore masks, including the management. We are past that stage of this psychologically. It's just done for show so that people like you won't go off like this on us and physically assault somebody.

P.S. If you are indeed using "cloth" masks, you might as well not bother because they provide almost no protection anyway.

P.P.S. Actually, you'd be surprised by how Republican politics have evolved in recent years when it comes to gay rights. Gay rights used to be one of my biggest, most strongly felt reasons for opposing the GOP, but according to Gallup's most recent survey on the subject, which was released last summer, 55% of Republicans today support same-sex marriage. I can feel the cultural shift even in my very conservative area too, as I finally felt safe enough to come out last year in an offline capacity. These days I would say my biggest political differences with the right when it comes to cultural issues are abortion (which doesn't directly affect me as a lesbian) and gun policy (while I'm a gun-owning non-fanatic about this issue, I think the current context of rising violent crime shows that stricter gun laws are needed now more than ever).

JWeinCom said:

Edit: Since the subject of bail came up, I invite anyone who thinks bail reform is a bad thing to go to https://finesandfeesjusticecenter.org/. It's obviously a biased source, but it contains litigation. Look at the court cases, and the scenarious where bail has been used basically as extortion for minor offenses like driving without registration. It's fucking gross beyond belief. If the bail system was functioning as intended, there would be no need for reform. Unfortunately, it has been used in many localities to extort money from those least able to pay, without informing them of their rights, or providing them with any legal counsel. Bail reform is not because people are being big ol' softees who want to let violent criminals rape your children, it's because the people in charge have turned it into a for-profit enterprise, and that municipalities are being sued and losing a fuck ton of money. 

It would be entirely to easy to respond to this. I would just challenge you to find a place where broad-based bail reduction policies or policies eliminating bail have met with something other than a spike in crime rates, including violent crime, because it seems like I really could just name any major city in this country to make my case on that, as well as vis-a-vis so many newly-elected progressive district attorneys' penchant for systematically refusing to enforce many, many laws and more.

The lockdowns did save millions of lives
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52968523
Lockdowns have saved more than three million lives from coronavirus in Europe, a study estimates.

They would have saved more if all people had actually bothered to do their part. Younger generations ignoring lockdowns is what cost many more lives. The science is simple, break the chain of infection, infection dies down. It can be reduced to near zero in 2 weeks. Yet many people felt like their little part didn't  matter, and since you likely won't die from it if you're young and healthy...

But one thing you're right in, it's not about public health. It's about keeping society going. Governments aren't balancing to keep deaths to a minimum, they're balancing to keep the healthcare system from imploding. We're at 75K deaths a week and we're opening up cause it's pointless to get the numbers down in the current climate.

Why do you blame the increase in suicide rates, learning loss and other problems solely on lock downs and social distancing measures? As I said before, a two week break would bring cases down to zero. It's much more the people not complying with lock downs and social distancing rules that are responsible for the increase in suicide rates, abuse and learning loss, by unnecessarily drawing out lock downs, having to do those repeatedly, and giving the virus many many more chances to mutate into more contagious variants.

This is how the pandemic evolved from the start (top line daily avg cases, bottom lines daily avg deaths)


Does that look like it's over?

What's really sad is that only authoritarian countries managed to keep the pandemic under control. Why can't we do it. It's not the measures, it's the people.

Last edited by SvennoJ - on 12 February 2022

Jaicee said:
JWeinCom said:

So... we don't need Covid restrictions... yet we're also going to criticize states for easing Covid restrictions. O_o... Alright then. If new data was coming out, then one would expect mandates to be dropped at similar times. But damned if you do, damned if you don't.

First of all, let me just say that I find it altogether appropriate that it's you, one of this forum's most ban-happy contributors, who has emerged as the thread's principal champion of indefinite Covid restrictions. There's a fitting consistency of logic to the fact that one of the most controlling people on this entire message board is also the most passionate and popular enthusiast for restricting other people's lives in other ways as well. I guess it just takes a more authoritarian mindset than I possess.

That said, a lot's been added to this thread since my visit yesterday, but since you seem to have emerged as the principal champion of indefinite Covid restrictions, and seeing as this was your most popular reply, and seeing as it was directed at me, I think I'll just reply to this first post you made here. I'll divide it up into chunks for ease of reading. 

So to respond to the part quoted above...what the hell are you even talking about? I've done nothing but voice relief that 11 U.S. states have announced plans to ease their masking requirements since Monday. How do you get duplicitousness out of that? You're just fabricating a contradictory position that I'm not taking.

(How did this idiotic post get 9 up-votes? Just for being hostile?)

JWeinCom said:


What is not included in this post is a scientific reason why it is a good time to end mask mandates. Just, that it's not completely comfortable, and you don't like them. I remember when 3,000 or so people died on 9/11. We changed air travel restrictions completely. I can't go into the Magic fucking Kingdom without a bag search and metal detector. 3,000 people died yesterday from Covid. But oh noes we're not going to put cloth on our face. AND ARE YOU TELLING ME I HAVE TO GO TO THE PHARMACY AND GET A SHOT THREE TIMES?! JUST TO PROTECT MYSELF FROM SOMETHING THAT HASN'T EVEN KILLED SIX MILLION PEOPLE YET?! THIS IS MADNESS!

Fun fact. When the shark attacks that inspired the movie Jaws happened, support for President Wilson in the area affected dropped sharply. Because that's what people do. When they're frustrated, they blame whoever is in charge, whether or not it's actually their fault. Of course, I'm not saying it isn't, but if it is, there's no reason to believe that in the OP.

So, then you turn into Fox News who says you're right to be pissed off, and here are some other things to be pissed off about. And then... this, is the end result. A little over a year ago, the Republican party literally tried to overthrow Democracy. And they are still in support of that (or at least too big of pussies to call it what it was). They do not think you should have control over your uterus. If they had their way, you wouldn't be able to choose the gender of your partner. But, at least they'll let your face be comfy womfy while thousands of people die every day.

There is not a shred of logic or rationality to be found here. Pure emotional reasoning. Angry=/=justified.

Also... it's a fucking mask. You're in Texas. I'm in New York. Our policies are far worse than yours. I ride mass transit to in person school with tons of people in crammed trains. I eat lunch at restaurants with my classmates. I can go to the movies. I go to the gym regularly. I literally can't think of anything I couldn't do if I wanted to do. I just have to put a piece of fabric over my face at times. We're closing on a million deaths, and this is somehow a bridge too far. 

...You know, one could conclude that your response here didn't exactly epitomize calm, sobriety, or rationality itself. I mean why do I feel like you might slit the throat of the next maskless person you see in the name of saving lives?

I think I'll skip the absurd detours involving 9/11 and the Jaws shark (to both of which I think we could also say there was a national overreaction) and just point out and focus on the part where you explain how I don't have the right to disagree with you or to be upset because January 6th happened and so forth.

Look, when the science around masking was unclear, I was okay with lockdowns. Not happy, but okay, because I didn't know what else could be done to mitigate the virus' spread. As the science around masking became clear, I favored that as an alternative. Once vaccines became available, I favored those as an alternative to compulsory masking. That has been the evolution of my thought pattern on Covid measures over time. You make it sound as though I'm a mask-burning anti-vaxxer who believes in Dr. Joe Rogan science and doesn't care how many people die. You can treat me like I'm an intelligent human being with a soul for a change. Thanks.

There has been a very real and serious human cost stemming not only from this goddamn virus, but also from the mitigation measures imposed to control it. I think getting a visual of that cost might help put matters more in perspective for you. Nevada lifted their indoor masking requirements the other day. Here's a glimpse of what the response looked like inside one school room in Las Vegas:



Look at all those divided opinions! Those are human beings too. I don't see how one can look at that and feel like the wrong decision was made here.

97% of American teachers report that their students have experienced learning loss. From May 2020 to April 2021, the U.S. recorded over 100,000 drug overdose deaths, a 28.5% increase from the 78,000 deaths that were recorded in the previous 12-month period, according to CDC data, which I believe is also an all-time record. Domestic violence jumped 8.1% during the lockdown period in 2020, which saw many women in particular effectively trapped at home with abusive partners. Also, we shut the economy down, displacing at least 15% of our workforce and exacerbating supply chain disruptions in the process, in turn partly yielding the current 40-year high price inflation rate! (Another part of that is corporate price gouging, but that is another issue for another time.) The most worrisome human cost though has been the emergence of a major mental health crisis resulting from both the pandemic itself but considerably exacerbated by related restrictions on life. (Also, I can't recommend that last article enough. The New York Times really is the best...when they want to be.) That, the mental health crisis, is the big one in my opinion, as its victims are far more numerous than those of the coronavirus itself and include me. People cannot live on high alert for years and remain unscathed. I think it would just be nice to see topics other than Covid in the news more often, frankly. That would help people's mental well-being. And no, it's not "just" a mask. It's a symbol, and a constant reminder, of a traumatizing era that I very much need to be in the past, speaking of which.

Anyway, you act like that's all nothing; as though these measures stopped nearly a million people from dying or something. That even mitigation as brutal and costly as this has proven insufficient to yield a better outcome is a testament to exactly how important it really is for triple-vaxxed people like yours truly to go on masking at work every day: not very. And frankly, my company's masking policy isn't about public health anyway, it's about public relations. Albersons policy is to follow CDC guidelines. Masking is required for employees because the CDC recommends it. The CDC is currently controlled by the Biden Administration. You can see my political relationship to these calls hence. Anyway, you can tell it's not about public health because if it were then our customers, who are far less likely to be vaccinated than we are (nearly all of us who work in the store are vaxxed), would have to mask as well, or even perhaps instead. That's what gets to me about it; that it's clearly not about public health. I mean our store managers are maskless half the day, like every time they're out of plain view of customers practically. When that winter storm hit last last week and only a few people came in, none of us wore masks, including the management. We are past that stage of this psychologically. It's just done for show so that people like you won't go off like this on us and physically assault somebody.

P.S. If you are indeed using "cloth" masks, you might as well not bother because they provide almost no protection anyway.

P.P.S. Actually, you'd be surprised by how Republican politics have evolved in recent years when it comes to gay rights. Gay rights used to be one of my biggest, most strongly felt reasons for opposing the GOP, but according to Gallup's most recent survey on the subject, which was released last summer, 55% of Republicans today support same-sex marriage. I can feel the cultural shift even in my very conservative area too, as I finally felt safe enough to come out last year in an offline capacity. These days I would say my biggest political differences with the right when it comes to cultural issues are abortion (which doesn't directly affect me as a lesbian) and gun policy (while I'm a gun-owning non-fanatic about this issue, I think the current context of rising violent crime shows that stricter gun laws are needed now more than ever).

JWeinCom said:

Edit: Since the subject of bail came up, I invite anyone who thinks bail reform is a bad thing to go to https://finesandfeesjusticecenter.org/. It's obviously a biased source, but it contains litigation. Look at the court cases, and the scenarious where bail has been used basically as extortion for minor offenses like driving without registration. It's fucking gross beyond belief. If the bail system was functioning as intended, there would be no need for reform. Unfortunately, it has been used in many localities to extort money from those least able to pay, without informing them of their rights, or providing them with any legal counsel. Bail reform is not because people are being big ol' softees who want to let violent criminals rape your children, it's because the people in charge have turned it into a for-profit enterprise, and that municipalities are being sued and losing a fuck ton of money. 

It would be entirely to easy to respond to this. I would just challenge you to find a place where broad-based bail reduction policies or policies eliminating bail have met with something other than a spike in crime rates, including violent crime, because it seems like I really could just name any major city in this country to make my case on that, as well as vis-a-vis so many newly-elected progressive district attorneys' penchant for systematically refusing to enforce many, many laws and more.

"First of all, let me just say that I find it altogether appropriate that it's you, one of this forum's most ban-happy contributors, who has emerged as the thread's principal champion of indefinite Covid restrictions. There's a fitting consistency of logic to the fact that one of the most controlling people on this entire message board is also the most passionate and popular enthusiast for restricting other people's lives in other ways as well. I guess it just takes a more authoritarian mindset than I possess.

...You know, one could conclude that your response here didn't exactly epitomize calm, sobriety, or rationality itself. I mean why do I feel like you might slit the throat of the next maskless person you see in the name of saving lives?

It's just done for show so that people like you won't go off like this on us and physically assault somebody."

So... we're basically going to do ad hominem attacks? I did not say anything about you as a person. Just that what you were saying and the positions you were advocating are illogical and irrational. This is pure and simple flaming, so cut it the fuck out. 

Interesting to see that your go to argument against me, that anything I say is some form of censorship because I'm a mod, hasn't changed despite the fact that I'm not a mod anymore XD.  Which was my choice. I have no interest in the power to ban anyone, and what I did as a mod has no relevance here. That being said when I was a mod you thought my saying "I thought my point was clear" or something like that was an abuse of power, so gonna say your criteria for authoritarianism is fucked. Which, hey, just might explain your view on masks. I apparently was also responsible for other mods closing your topics, and instigating an overall conspiracy against you in the backroom. *shrug* Again though irrelevant and flaming.

As for why you think I'm going to slit someone's throat, maybe you're not well? Don't want to throw out insults, but that's a pretty demented interpretation. Or maybe you're just doing more flaming. I don't think anything in my post was angry or aggressive. I was going for sarcastic and dismissive. If you think that was too harsh, go find a safe space.

You can treat me like I'm an intelligent human being with a soul for a change.

just point out and focus on the part where you explain how I don't have the right to disagree with you or to be upset because January 6th happened and so forth.

And some nice victimization to go along with the ad hominem. Counterspeech is not oppression or censorship. You get to say whatever illogical thing you want, and I get to call it as such. Doing so is not denying you the right to disagree with me. Cut the victimization shit all the way out. If you actually want to be able to express your opinions, this is what comes with that right. Sorrynotsorry.

You could call my post idiotic though. I'm fine with that. Others seem to disagree with you. Doesn't mean they're right, but tbh I think they are for the most part better at understand logical arguments, so I believe I made my points clearly. You didn't really explain why it was idiotic, just called me a violent bully and whined about how I'm not nice enough to you.  As for treating you as intelligent, no. I won't treat you any kind of way, because I don't know you. If you say something intelligent I'll treat that as intelligent. So far, in this topic, you are batting zero. 

As for the actual "substance" of your post.  

You clearly made the point that the restrictions being dropped was based on arbitrary politics and not any actual reason. That's why you mentioned approval and polling and yada yada. You outright suggested in a jaqing off fashion (just asking questions) that it was a purely political ploy. We were all there, we all saw it, it's the first paragraph of the OP, and the whole post was ranting against the democrats, so no need to gaslight us. If that isn't what you meant, then get better at explaining I guess.  

I don't care what children think of mask policies.

I'm sorry, but I don't make any of my decisions based on what 7 year olds think about it, and don't think we should build policy around that. We don't let seven year olds vote for a reason. How about a panel of epidemiologists instead? If you were trying to counter my point that this was emotional reasoning and not logical/scientific reasoning, that's a spectacularly bad example to use. I also don't care what your store does. I'm not your fucking manager and have no idea what that has to do with anything. 

The rest of this is a pure bait and switch. Your OP was about the restrictions that are in place now. Here you're talking about restrictions that are no longer in place. There is no lock down in New York City. I can go wherever I want and do pretty much whatever I want. I imagine that there is even less restriction in Texas. The only thing left are masks and vaccines. So yeah, at this point it's just a mask. Unless your point was that we need to get back to normal by lifting the restrictions that have already been lifted. What changes exactly are you advocating if not for lifting masking requirements?

So, you have still provided no logical or rational justification for your position. Just added some personal attacks and waaah he said I can't have an opinion to the mix. Really validates my earlier post more than anything. Poor showing. 

P.S. Fabric, whatever N95s are made of. 

P.S.S. You're looking at it from the side I imagine you think will affect you more, a rise in crime. On the other side there are people who are routinely victimized by the current system. How much do you weigh such harm when you don't think it's likely to impact you? That's kind of the crux of all this.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 12 February 2022

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JWeinCom said:

So... we're basically going to do ad hominem attacks? I did not say anything about you as a person. Just that what you were saying and the positions you were advocating are illogical and irrational. This is pure and simple flaming, so cut it the fuck out. 

Interesting to see that your go to argument against me, that anything I say is some form of censorship because I'm a mod, hasn't changed despite the fact that I'm not a mod anymore XD.  Which was my choice. I have no interest in the power to ban anyone, and what I did as a mod has no relevance here. That being said when I was a mod you thought my saying "I thought my point was clear" or something like that was an abuse of power, so gonna say your criteria for authoritarianism is fucked. Which, hey, just might explain your view on masks. I apparently was also responsible for other mods closing your topics, and instigating an overall conspiracy against you in the backroom. *shrug* Again though irrelevant and flaming.

As for violence, don't think anything in my post was angry or aggressive. I was going for sarcastic and dismissive. If you think that was too harsh, go find a safe space.

....

And some nice victimization to go along with the ad hominem. Counterspeech is not oppression or censorship. You get to say whatever illogical thing you want, and I get to call it as such. Doing so is not denying you the right to disagree with me. Cut the victimization shit all the way out.

You could call my post idiotic though. I'm fine with that. Others seem to disagree with you. Doesn't mean they're right, but tbh I think they are for the most part better at understand logical arguments, so I believe I made my points clearly. You didn't really explain why it was idiotic, just called me a violent bully and whined about how I'm not nice enough to you.  As for treating you as intelligent, no. I won't treat you any kind of way, because I don't know you. If you say something intelligent I'll treat that as intelligent. So far, in this topic, you are batting zero. 


Oh please, you're such a hypocrite. Look I'll concede to having maybe set the wrong tone for this discussion with my profanity-laced OP, but it was most certainly you who made the matter personal. Your entire prior post was just one long, gaslighting attack on my intelligence much like this one I'm quoting now is as well. I retaliated proportionally. Either treat people how you'd like to be treated or get over it. I don't know why you demand to be treated with more respect than you give other people, but you're hardly a victim here.

JWeinCom said:

As for the actual "substance" of your post.  

You clearly made the point that the restrictions being dropped was based on arbitrary politics and not any actual reason. That's why you mentioned approval and polling and yada yada. You outright suggested in a jaqing off fashion (just asking questions) that it was a purely political ploy. We were all there, we all saw it, it's the first paragraph of the OP, and the whole post was ranting against the democrats, so no need to gaslight us. If that isn't what you meant, then get better at explaining I guess.  

I don't care what children think of mask policies.

I'm sorry, but I don't make any of my decisions based on what 7 year olds think about it, and don't think we should build policy around that. We don't let seven year olds vote for a reason. How about a panel of epidemiologists instead? If you were trying to counter my point that this was emotional reasoning and not logical/scientific reasoning, that's a bad example to use. I also don't care what your store does. I'm not your fucking manager and have no idea what that has to do with anything. 

The rest of this is a pure bait and switch. Your OP was about the restrictions that are in place now. Here you're talking about restrictions that are no longer in place. There is no lock down in New York City. I can go wherever I want and do pretty much whatever I want. I imagine that there is even less restriction in Texas. The only thing left are masks and vaccines. So yeah, at this point it's just a mask. Unless your point was that we need to get back to normal by lifting the restrictions that have already been lifted. What changes exactly are you advocating if not for lifting masking requirements?  

So, you have still provided no logical or rational justification for your position. Just added some personal attacks and waaah he said I can't have an opinion to the mix. 

P.S. Fabric, whatever N95s are made of. 

P.S.S. You're looking at it from the side I imagine you think will affect you more, a rise in crime. On the other side there are people who are routinely victimized by the current system. How much do you weigh such harm when you don't think it's likely to impact you? That's kind of the crux of all this.

First off, there's no basis for putting the word 'substance' in quotation marks when I provided a lot of worthy analysis and ample sourcing for my take on the impact of Covid restrictions both past and present. Secondly, since your reply, by stark contrast, was largely substance-free (unless one counts another of your trademark juvenile Facebook-style memes as an information source) and consisted mostly of you projecting your victimhood complex onto me, I'll make this brief.

There's no "bait and switch" here, just your inability to comprehend the fact that Covid-era restrictions have had a cumulative impact on our society over time that is serious. What there is instead is you disingenuously revising my positions to make yourself look smarter than, and morally superior to, me, as that seems to be your real goal here.

I'm done talking to you now. I'm out of motivation to do so. It's clearly not going to get anywhere because you're determined not to hear anything I say.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 13 February 2022

Agree with your post and will only add that for most part left wing is more authoritarian than right wing while putting that is for good reason (like forbidding hate speech).
In Brazil despise how moronic our president is all accusations of he being a dictator is silly, all medias are free and criticize him all day long without punishment (while when he badmouth them he gets accused of censoring and persecuting midia), while the leftwing party that was in control for like 14 years tried to approve laws like "social control of midia" and is very much in favor of shutting down disenting opinions.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

Agree with your post and will only add that for most part left wing is more authoritarian than right wing while putting that is for good reason (like forbidding hate speech).
In Brazil despise how moronic our president is all accusations of he being a dictator is silly, all medias are free and criticize him all day long without punishment (while when he badmouth them he gets accused of censoring and persecuting midia), while the leftwing party that was in control for like 14 years tried to approve laws like "social control of midia" and is very much in favor of shutting down disenting opinions.

ah so that's why Brazil is only on #111 out of 180 countries in the World Press Freedom Index which is published by Reporters Without Borders.

"With threats and physical attacks, Brazil continues to be an especially violent country for the media, and many journalists have been killed in connection with their work. In most cases, these reporters, radio hosts, bloggers or other kinds of information providers were covering stories linked to corruption, public policy or organised crime in small or mid-sized cities, where they are more vulnerable. Journalism has become especially problematic since Jair Bolsonaro’s election as president in October 2018. Insulting, denigrating, stigmatising and humiliating journalists has become President Bolsonaro’s trademark. Any media revelation threatening his or his administration’s interests triggers a new round of violent verbal attacks that foster a climate of hatred and mistrust towards journalists. The coronavirus crisis exposed major problems in accessing information and gave rise to new attacks on the media by Bolsonaro, who blamed and scapegoated them for the crisis. Media ownership continues to be very concentrated, especially in the hands of big business families that are often closely linked to the political class. The confidentiality of journalists’ sources is under constant attack and many investigative reporters have been subjected to abusive judicial proceedings."

https://rsf.org/en/brazil

Last edited by Barozi - on 12 February 2022

EricHiggin said:

If those aren't (acceptable) protests, were these?

[Redacted 9/11 image]

Perhaps I'm confused. What do vaccines do?

So, these are the two options of protest you were able to conceive of?

1. Several parked tractors
2. A jihadist attack killing thousands?

Misconceptions over vaccines might be the least of your confusions.

Last edited by Hiku - on 13 February 2022

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jaicee said:

JWeinCom said:

So... we're basically going to do ad hominem attacks? I did not say anything about you as a person. Just that what you were saying and the positions you were advocating are illogical and irrational. This is pure and simple flaming, so cut it the fuck out. 

Interesting to see that your go to argument against me, that anything I say is some form of censorship because I'm a mod, hasn't changed despite the fact that I'm not a mod anymore XD.  Which was my choice. I have no interest in the power to ban anyone, and what I did as a mod has no relevance here. That being said when I was a mod you thought my saying "I thought my point was clear" or something like that was an abuse of power, so gonna say your criteria for authoritarianism is fucked. Which, hey, just might explain your view on masks. I apparently was also responsible for other mods closing your topics, and instigating an overall conspiracy against you in the backroom. *shrug* Again though irrelevant and flaming.

As for violence, don't think anything in my post was angry or aggressive. I was going for sarcastic and dismissive. If you think that was too harsh, go find a safe space.

....

And some nice victimization to go along with the ad hominem. Counterspeech is not oppression or censorship. You get to say whatever illogical thing you want, and I get to call it as such. Doing so is not denying you the right to disagree with me. Cut the victimization shit all the way out.

You could call my post idiotic though. I'm fine with that. Others seem to disagree with you. Doesn't mean they're right, but tbh I think they are for the most part better at understand logical arguments, so I believe I made my points clearly. You didn't really explain why it was idiotic, just called me a violent bully and whined about how I'm not nice enough to you.  As for treating you as intelligent, no. I won't treat you any kind of way, because I don't know you. If you say something intelligent I'll treat that as intelligent. So far, in this topic, you are batting zero. 


Oh please, you're such a hypocrite. Look I'll concede to have maybe set the wrong tone for this discussion with my profanity-laced OP, but it was most certainly you who made the matter personal. Your entire prior post was just one long, gaslighting attack on my intelligence much like this one I'm quoting now is as well. I retaliated proportionally. Either treat people how you'd like to be treated or get over it. You're hardly a victim here.

JWeinCom said:

As for the actual "substance" of your post.  

You clearly made the point that the restrictions being dropped was based on arbitrary politics and not any actual reason. That's why you mentioned approval and polling and yada yada. You outright suggested in a jaqing off fashion (just asking questions) that it was a purely political ploy. We were all there, we all saw it, it's the first paragraph of the OP, and the whole post was ranting against the democrats, so no need to gaslight us. If that isn't what you meant, then get better at explaining I guess.  

I don't care what children think of mask policies.

I'm sorry, but I don't make any of my decisions based on what 7 year olds think about it, and don't think we should build policy around that. We don't let seven year olds vote for a reason. How about a panel of epidemiologists instead? If you were trying to counter my point that this was emotional reasoning and not logical/scientific reasoning, that's a bad example to use. I also don't care what your store does. I'm not your fucking manager and have no idea what that has to do with anything. 

The rest of this is a pure bait and switch. Your OP was about the restrictions that are in place now. Here you're talking about restrictions that are no longer in place. There is no lock down in New York City. I can go wherever I want and do pretty much whatever I want. I imagine that there is even less restriction in Texas. The only thing left are masks and vaccines. So yeah, at this point it's just a mask. Unless your point was that we need to get back to normal by lifting the restrictions that have already been lifted. What changes exactly are you advocating if not for lifting masking requirements?  

So, you have still provided no logical or rational justification for your position. Just added some personal attacks and waaah he said I can't have an opinion to the mix. 

P.S. Fabric, whatever N95s are made of. 

P.S.S. You're looking at it from the side I imagine you think will affect you more, a rise in crime. On the other side there are people who are routinely victimized by the current system. How much do you weigh such harm when you don't think it's likely to impact you? That's kind of the crux of all this.

First off, there's no basis for putting the word 'substance' in quotation marks when I provided a lot of worthy analysis and ample sourcing for my take on the impact of Covid restrictions both past and present. Secondly, since your reply, by stark contrast, was largely substance-free (unless one counts another of your trademark juvenile Facebook-style memes as an information source) and largely composed of you projecting your victimhood complex onto me, I'll make this brief.

There's no "bait and switch" here, just your inability to comprehend the fact that Covid-era restrictions have had a cumulative impact on our society over time that is serious. What there is instead is you disingenuously revising my positions to make yourself look smarter than, and morally superior to, me, as that seems to be your real goal here.

I'm done talking to you now. I'm out of motivation to do so. It's clearly not going to get anywhere because you're determined not to hear anything I say.

Oh please, you're such a hypocrite. Look I'll concede to have maybe set the wrong tone for this discussion with my profanity-laced OP, but it was most certainly you who made the matter personal. Your entire prior post was just one long, gaslighting attack on my intelligence much like this one I'm quoting now is as well. I retaliated proportionally. Either treat people how you'd like to be treated or get over it. You're hardly a victim here.

No, my entire point was not calling you stupid, it was pointing out that your OP and the positions you expressed therein were stupid. Cause, they were. Your comments were about me in particular and had no relation to what I said in this thread. Your comments were trying to dismiss what I said based on my personality which is flaming and an ad hominem. But by all means use as much profanity as you want. Bitch shit fuck cunt cocksucker motherfucker tits. That wasn't the issue with OP, the issue was the lack of reason.

When I say stuff I like to back it up, so I'll give an example of these bad faith tactics. I used a Helen Lovejoy meme as part of my post. Obviously not as an information source, so either you're evading or don't know what an information source is. You pointed that out as juvenile and are attempting to use it to discredit me. Which is an example of an, admittedly mild, ad homimen. The points I made obviously stand completely apart from that meme, but you can't seem to address those, so just call me juvenille for posting a Simpsons image. ¯_(ツ)_/¯This is a rather transparent attempt of evasion, and the pattern going on here. I was a mean mod, I'm condescending, I want to slit people's throats, I'm juvenile, just trying to boost my own ego, blah blah blah. You know what? I'll just grant you all of that.

Still has nothing to do with whether my points are valid. Yet to see a reason for that.

My post can't have much substance, because if you're posting irrelevant things and personal attacks, there's nothing I could do but point that out. Do you want me to give a detailed reasoned argument about why I don't want to slit people's throats? Why seven year olds are not a good source of policy? Would you like me to talk about your bosses' policies? Why we shouldn't lift restrictions that have already been lifted? What illuminating points did I miss?

I'm curious to see where I acted like a victim, except for the parts where you were actually flaming. Unless you would like to claim that the things I quoted were not direct personal attacks. I wish you would, cause I could use a good chuckle.

I'm also curious to see what position I misrepresented. But again, no evidence is forthcoming. If I seem smarter or morally superior, that wasn't a goal, but what the hell, I'll take it, thanks. But, I am quite confident in my intelligence, so I don't need the boost. Would be nice if you'd stfu about my intentions and address the actual points though.

You said you wanted current restrictions lifted so you could have a normal life. You have still not presented a valid reason that mask mandates should be dropped beyond what they are now beyond "I don't like them". Nor have you explained any other current restriction beyond masks that is preventing you from living a normal life. And apparently the failure to remove mask mandates (which you can't give a reaon for) or these as of yet unidentified mystery restrictions is such a monumental issue that it would justify a massive democratic defeat. And that it is "insane" of democrats to not agree. So, maybe less time about me being a meanie pants and more about how that makes a fucking lick of sense. 

But of course, you won't actually adress that, because I just won't listen. Welp, then I'll leave it here then, but don't think any intelligent person will buy that load of shit.

Last edited by JWeinCom - on 12 February 2022