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Forums - Politics Discussion - A reactionary post, I guess.

Jumpin said:
EricHiggin said:

If those aren't (acceptable) protests, were these?

[Redacted 9/11 image]

Perhaps I'm confused. What do vaccines do?

So, these are the two options of protest you were able to conceive of?

1. Several parked tractors
2. A jihadist attack killing thousands?

Misconceptions over vaccines might be the least of your confusions.

Teacher - What's 2+2 Jonny?

Student - 5?

Teacher - Try again.

Student - 3?

Teacher - OMG, you're such an idiot Johnny. Why do you even bother coming to school? You're no good at any subject and just upset the staff with your stupidity. Just sit there and be quiet.

Student - So... what's the answer then?

Teacher - Go to the Principals office now! Enjoy your detention moron!

This is the real life version. No bowl is ever good enough.

Last edited by Hiku - on 13 February 2022

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Police finally shut down Windsor bridge protest.

So onto the next bridge.

Now there's no way they would shut down a peaceful protest, at the Peace Bridge, would they?

Republicans have become anti democracy. That party ahould never get power again and it should end. I hope they end and we can get a better more leftwing party

Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Hiku said:

To be completely honest for a moment, and not meant as an insult, the fact that so many people are not even willing to make the minimal effort to wear a mask while they go shopping, etc, is probably one of the most demoralizing things I've ever witnessed in my life.

Agreed. In East Asian countries people wear masks when they get or feel sick, or even when they just go to crowded places (like airports, train stations, etc). If we can't, as a society, make such a low collective effort to slow a pandemic spread then we are really a failure of a society 

Hey, if we're going to respond to the 9/11 thing, can we not keep reposting the image? I would appreciate that.

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EricHiggin said:

Just an appetizer as to the confiscated trucker fuel being poured on the fire, in meme form, and why it'll only grow in support until something breaks.

Lol............they find racism in everything

The freedom convoy is lead by literal white supremacists. And there are nazi flags in that convoy. And most Canadians ans truckers are against it. How did we get into this argument about canadian politics anyway? Seeing racism as racism is not that big of a stretch

Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

RolStoppable said:

The worst thing about all the COVID-19 measures is that their purpose is to protect the vulnerable, many of which unwilling to take the step to get vaccinated. There's nothing more frustrating than making huge efforts to help people who don't give a damn, so again, no surprise that more and more people got tired of living according to the measures.

Someone in this thread cited how a study found that lockdowns saved three million lives in Europe. That sounds good on the surface, but when the consequence is that easily ten times as many people began to suffer from depressions, especially kids and teenagers, then even the biggest defenders of lockdowns should ask themselves if it's a smart thing to sacrifice the young generation in order to protect the lives of old people who don't contribute to society's wealth anymore and wouldn't have to live many more years to begin with. All these short term gains will be more than wiped out by all the long term damage and that's before we get into talking about all the businesses that had to file for bankruptcy due to the COVID-19 measures.

A bigger emphasis on each person's own responsibility would have been a much better course of action to get through this pandemic. The people most in danger of dying from COVID-19 were always very old people, so exactly the people for whom it was the easiest to avoid contact with other people. They weren't working jobs anymore, they were usually not living with their kids anymore, so the biggest hazards to be prone to infection didn't exist for them. They could have isolated themselves without negative consequences for their finances; that is, if they were worried about their well-being due to the coronavirus. In reality a lot of old people have the attitude that they live their life, and if shit happens, it happens. So about the only measure that should have been pushed through is...

...masks in closed spaces and masks in open spaces with lots of people tightly together. Wearing a mask takes so little effort, yet it helps so much in protecting yourself and others. Virtually everything else could have been achieved with self-responsibility. There are times when other viruses are around and people say for themselves that they won't go to a party or an event, because they don't want to risk it during those given two to four weeks it takes for such a wave to die down.

But we've got all these measures, many of which have gone oberboard or are completely unnecessary, and the consequence is increased sympathy for political parties who consist of morons, simply because these morons can operate on the principle that even a broken clock is right twice a day. Granted, this analogy isn't perfect because said political parties are usually against masks as well, but the message that more freedom wouldn't be doomsday for humanity rings true. They can't convey it in a respectable manner because they don't believe in science, but growing frustration in the population makes people acceptant of agreeing with people who get something right despite it being for all the wrong reasons.

A reactionary post, I guess.

Some many things wrong in that post :/

The worst thing about all the COVID-19 measures is that their purpose is to protect the vulnerable, many of which unwilling to take the step to get vaccinated.

Where did you get that idea? Every vulnerable person I know got the vaccine asap, as well as isolating themselves as much as possible for years now.

I linked that article about the 3 million lives saved in Europe. That was in June 2020 after the initial lock downs. If you had read the article it also states that that estimate only holds up if the healthcare system would have been able to cope with that level of patients needing intensive care. Without the lock downs we would have been much worse off.

The initial lock downs worked, plain and simple. Depressions came later as people unwilling to keep social distancing etc kept fueling the pandemic. It was mostly this younger generation you are so worried about that kept on partying, ignoring gathering rules and thus kept spreading the virus. They shot themselves in the foot, disrupting the economy more than was necessary, throwing their own future away cause fun comes first.

About only the old non working had to be protected
Plus people that are too sick too work can't keep the lights on. Omicron's biggest problem here was staff shortages, up to 30% people absent, unable to come to work. The amount of hospitalizations were less than from Delta, yet the hospitals were just as close to the brink due to 30% of the staff being sick at home. e had to bring back people out of retirement (the useless ones as you call them) and have people keep working while sick to be able to keep the hospitals going.

Self-responsibility doesn't work, too many people are not responsible at all.

What did contribute to anxiety in my children is the continued uncertainty, constant flip flopping as politics keeps getting swayed by the loudest voices. Then the terrible online learning process which never got better, actually it got worse. And it getting drawn out because too many people couldn't do their part to slow the pandemic, thus having to have many months long lock downs instead of 2 weeks to break the chain of infection.

We didn't go over board, we didn't do enough. I wonder how depressed people in New Zealand got? The one democratic country that managed to keep Covid-19 under control.

RolStoppable said:

Germany alone has three million people among its risk groups who have not been vaccinated after more than one year of vaccination being available. Hospitalization rates have been significantly higher among the unvaccinated; that should be true globally. People in risk groups who still belong to the workforce should have been the only ones to get the benefit of continued pay instead of everyone who wasn't in a system-relevant job; that would have saved billions of money. Way too many measures were issued with a one-size-fits-all approach under the guise of required solidarity.

Self-responsibility may not work, but government-issued measures don't work either. The catch is that the latter cause more collateral damage, such as educational deficits among children due to school closings, businesses having trouble to operate due to people who could still work not being allowed to due to positive tests.

I hope you recognize that New Zealand is an island.

I hope you recognize Earth is an island ;)

Yes, unfortunately targeted measures are beyond our human capabilities. Or rather, every time there are targeted measures we end up debating about the cut off points for many decades... We couldn't even really close the border despite it being closed forever. Half measures don't work and half measures is what causes the collateral damage.

Kids would have been much worse off without all the measures. Not fun to bury your grandparents as a kid, have friends whose parents died if not having to see one of your own parents on a ventilator. So easy to forget how bad it got in Lombardy, Italy. Or how oxygen trucks were raided in India when the delta wave got out of control. You think that kind of ptsd is better for kids than educational deficits?

Be glad you can complain about the minor setbacks that can be overcome. A lot of damage from critical covid-19 cases will last a lot longer and death is permanent.

RolStoppable said:

Yes, absolutely. All of your examples, except burying your grandparents as a kid, were extreme ones that more than 99% of the kids weren't going to suffer. And the one example that wasn't extreme wasn't uncommon even before COVID-19.

I guess that's were we disagree then.

My youngest is afraid to go to school because he fears killing his immunocompromised mother. Afraid because the school never did their work to make the classrooms safer, stopped contact tracing and now testing is no longer available. What they did do is send him home into Covid quarantine because he had a stomach ache... The second day he was back in school. The stomach ache was all stress of course, great way to scare my kid even more. Brave enough to go back while his mom still can't go anywhere because Omicron is still all around.

His brother is no better off. He has to skip yet another birthday party getting left out. The parents of his friend are anti-vaxxers, don't believe in Covid, can't go there. My wife just feels immense guilt for not being strong enough to survive covid.

It sucks, but it would have sucked a lot more losing their mother, and losing my wife to a preventable disease. I'm glad they still have their grand parents for the necessary break now and then. They couldn't see their nephew for a while since he lives with a couple teenagers that didn't take it seriously. Self-responsibility is not enough, you are responsible for all the people around you in society.

Without the measures it would be far more than 1% that would have been affected by the loss of loved one.
This is NY with all the measures we've 'had to endure'

There was not right answer, only wrong ones. Whether we picked the least wrong one, dunno. In my opinion we should have done more so we could have had much shorter lock downs. But that's mostly from my personal situation. I'm sure there are a lot of people that lost their jobs and/or livelihood from the pandemic. They would likely have been better off with stricter shorter lock downs as well, but that's just my view on the situation.