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Forums - Politics Discussion - A reactionary post, I guess.

padib said:

You don't have the right information.

It was stolen to be redirected to other causes not in line with the original donations, the charity of their choice.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10508291/Bank-freezes-Freedom-Convoy-supporters-accounts-crowd-fundraising-site-says-defy-order.html

https://globalnews.ca/news/8596591/gofundme-trucker-convoy-removed/#:~:text=GoFundMe%20has%20announced%20the%20fundraiser,than%20%2410%20million%20was%20raised.

“Given how this situation has evolved, no further funds will be directly distributed to the Freedom Convoy organizers — we will work with organizers to send all remaining funds to credible and established charities verified by GoFundMe,” the company said.

It's absolutely shameful, how can you defend such abhorrent behavior?

Two separate things here:

1.) Gofundme was originally giving it to the convoy's charity of choice, Gofund changed their mind and were instead going to have it refunded.

2.) TD Bank froze $1.1 million in assets from the Gofund me. I was not aware of that.


But it's not $10 million, and it's not being given to the charity of their choice. You're combining two different parts of the story, you're combining what Gofundme was saying with what TD Bank actually ended up doing.

>how can you defend such abhorrent behavior

I didn't defend it, I said it didn't happen (but it still didn't happen as you claim it did).

And I'm pretty left wingers are not the ones defending the police state...

Last edited by the-pi-guy - on 18 February 2022

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You should all watch the movie Contagion. There you can see what would've happened if Covid was deadlier.



the-pi-guy said:

Two separate things here:

1.) Gofundme was originally giving it to the convoy's charity of choice, Gofund changed their mind and were instead going to have it refunded.

2.) TD Bank froze $1.1 million in assets from the Gofund me. I was not aware of that.


But it's not $10 million, and it's not being given to the charity of their choice. You're combining two different parts of the story, you're combining what Gofundme was saying with what TD Bank actually ended up doing.

>how can you defend such abhorrent behavior

I didn't defend it, I said it didn't happen (but it still didn't happen as you claim it did).

And I'm pretty left wingers are not the ones defending the police state...

The left right now is defending tyrannical actions by supporting corrupt governments that are stripping any strength left to the people. The left needs to realize what they are doing before things go too far and start waking up. It's not even about left or right anymore, it's about people versus power, and it is slipping very fast.

Anyhow back to our topic, I don't know why you see an obsession to correct me when what I said is true. The Canadian government gloated over seizing 10M$, this was through tracing the money back to gofundme and requiring them to freeze the money and then force that money to other causes. But that money was given by individuals towards the trucker convoy cause. That money was stolen from those people because where they wanted that money used was not respected.

And the canadian government is responsible for this from top to bottom, whether it's for the TD (banks) issue or for the crowdfunding issue, it's all complete tyranny from the top. To add to this insult, they are seeking the right to imprison people and taking their kids away if they are supporting the convoy by being present at these protests. This is absolutely shameful, and a zero-respect for the right to protest peacefully. They are so concerned about getting back to our normal lives, where have they been the past 2 years when they caused businesses to close down on a massive scale and suicide and mental illness across the country? These people have lost their minds.

I have been following this closely as I am canadian and non-vaccinated and am concerned for the freedoms I am standing for. Feel free to correct me but understand first that I'm not taking this lightly it affects me personally as a Canadian, I have been locked in my country, masked for almost 2 years and am refusing the vaccine for health concerns and concerns about my personal human rights. I am very angry at my government.



padib said:

The left right now is defending tyrannical actions by supporting corrupt governments that are stripping any strength left to the people. The left needs to realize what they are doing before things go too far and start waking up. It's not even about left or right anymore, it's about people versus power, and it is slipping very fast.

Which tyrannical actions are those?

padib said:

Anyhow back to our topic, I don't know why you see an obsession to correct me when what I said is true. The Canadian government gloated over seizing 10M$, this was through tracing the money back to gofundme and requiring them to freeze the money and then force that money to other causes. But that money was given by individuals towards the trucker convoy cause. That money was stolen from those people because where they wanted that money used was not respected.

Please try re-reading this, at least the bolded and underlined:

>TD Bank froze $1.1 million in assets from the Gofundme. I was not aware of that. <-This is me admitting that part of what you said was sort of right.

>But it's not $10 million, and it's not being given to the charity of their choice. You're combining two different parts of the story, you're combining what Gofundme was saying with what TD Bank actually ended up doing.

padib said:

And the canadian government is responsible for this from top to bottom, whether it's for the TD (banks) issue or for the crowdfunding issue, it's all complete tyranny from the top.

I have been following this closely as I am canadian and non-vaccinated and am concerned for the freedoms I am standing for. Feel free to correct me but understand first that I'm not taking this lightly it affects me personally as a Canadian, I have been locked in my country, masked for almost 2 years and am refusing the vaccine for health concerns and concerns about my personal human rights. I am very angry at my government.

Real health concerns?



the-pi-guy said:
padib said:

The left right now is defending tyrannical actions by supporting corrupt governments that are stripping any strength left to the people. The left needs to realize what they are doing before things go too far and start waking up. It's not even about left or right anymore, it's about people versus power, and it is slipping very fast.

Which tyrannical actions are those?

padib said:

Anyhow back to our topic, I don't know why you see an obsession to correct me when what I said is true. The Canadian government gloated over seizing 10M$, this was through tracing the money back to gofundme and requiring them to freeze the money and then force that money to other causes. But that money was given by individuals towards the trucker convoy cause. That money was stolen from those people because where they wanted that money used was not respected.

Please try re-reading this, at least the bolded and underlined:

>TD Bank froze $1.1 million in assets from the Gofundme. I was not aware of that. <-This is me admitting that part of what you said was sort of right.

>But it's not $10 million, and it's not being given to the charity of their choice. You're combining two different parts of the story, you're combining what Gofundme was saying with what TD Bank actually ended up doing.

padib said:

And the canadian government is responsible for this from top to bottom, whether it's for the TD (banks) issue or for the crowdfunding issue, it's all complete tyranny from the top.

I have been following this closely as I am canadian and non-vaccinated and am concerned for the freedoms I am standing for. Feel free to correct me but understand first that I'm not taking this lightly it affects me personally as a Canadian, I have been locked in my country, masked for almost 2 years and am refusing the vaccine for health concerns and concerns about my personal human rights. I am very angry at my government.

Real health concerns?

Yes real health concerns, I suffer from a genetic disorder. It's personal and the government doesn't have any provision for it.

I appreciate your honesty about the TD Bank Freeze, it's pretty bad.

Tyrannical:

  1. Freezing peoples' bank accounts for donating to the convoy.
  2. Seeking to put people in jail for participating in the freedom convoy and taking away their children. (You should watch -> https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=2385262&jwsource=cl)
  3. Forcing people to vaccinate against their choice.
  4. Shutting down protest under pretext of illegal activity.
  5. Media propaganda pushing a common false narrative (I have been to the convoy and it is beyond peaceful).
  6. Not sitting down with people to address concerns.
  7. Slurring a whole group of Canadians who disagree with him and pitting neighbor against neighbor.
  8. Calling upon the Emergency Act to control the population without justification.

All this to me is tyrannical, but JT has been like this from the start.

https://youtu.be/oMj7rdOFxM8?t=1877

Again thank you for your conciliatory tone, I beileve you're also from Montreal so we should be able to understand each other.

Last edited by padib - on 18 February 2022

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Jaicee said:
sundin13 said:

You seem to imply that I said/meant a lot of things that I didn't say. Let me make what I mean clear: You could very well argue that guilt-by-association can often be a poor judge. What you can't argue is that the association is very much real. These individuals are literally standing beside neo-nazis, so don't act like Trudeau is off base by calling it out. 

*sighs*

You know better than this. Both Trudeau and you are being more than a little disingenuous. What he, and you, are attempting to do is paint the many millions of Canadians and Quebecers who have supported this movement as literal fucking Nazis for opposing the indefinite continuation of Covid restrictions. It's retarded and you know it. It's even more retarded that you actually buy into Trudeau's suggestion that people like the Jewish descendants of Holocaust survivors, the grandchildren of WW2 veterans who died fighting the actual German Nazis during World War II, etc. etc. are Nazis because they're...the ones calling for more personal freedoms here and opposing the transformation of Canada into something very much akin to a police state.

You know why you have to do that? You know why you and the rest of the left have to idiotically resort to painting everyone who disagrees with you on anything as a neo-Nazi? Because you can't actually defend your positions on the merits.

I reciprocate your sighs.

First of all, I just want to say that the ableist slurs are entirely unnecessary. 

Beyond that, I find it funny that you complain about me being unable to defend my position on its merits while simultaneously ignoring virtually everything I said (yet still trying to stuff as many words into my mouth as you can fit). 

I very much agree that Trudeau's statement is fairly reductive and unhelpful, however, in the strictest sense of the word, it is accurate. To say someone is standing with Nazi's is not saying that they are Nazis. That is your own words and biases interpreting Trudeau objectively incorrectly.

In my opinion, there is very much a legitimate conversation to be had regarding the close ties between the convoy and the extremist actions, views and groups. There should be a point in which the whole thing becomes tainted, and refusing to even have that conversation, in my opinion, enables extremism. 

Last edited by sundin13 - on 18 February 2022

Sounds like the situation in Canada is the same one as it has been in Austria and Germany for a long time now. People who are merely fed up by corona measures stand side by side with anti-vaxxers, neo-nazis, conspiracy theorists and the like. Common sense should tell the average person that it is a bad idea to mix with these folks on the fringe of society, because you can't expect to be taken serious when the few things you say begin to blend together with extremists.

The biggest problem with such gatherings is that non-extremists begin to pick up the ideas of extremists, because they begin to talk with them out of boredom. Some easily influenced people then get it into their heads that things like masks and vaccination are bad, neither of which has any scientific basis.

The biggest fallacy going around is the belief in personal freedom that should be held above everything. There's no such thing as complete personal freedom in a functioning society, because then it would be anarchy. There are laws against theft, speeding, murder etc., all for the sake of making life safe for as many people as possible. The thing is that these laws have been refined over the course of decades or even centuries, so they make a whole lot more sense than the bulk of corona measures. This, however, does not mean that all corona measures were wrong or outright stupid.

I don't think the people of Canada have much to worry about. More and more European countries are strongly considering to loosen restrictions in the coming weeks and if things don't go wrong - and it is unlikely that they will - then the more hesitant countries will follow suit.

The bottom line is that you can be against corona measures while at the same time creating enough distance between yourself and extremists.



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RolStoppable said:

Sounds like the situation in Canada is the same one as it has been in Austria and Germany for a long time now. People who are merely fed up by corona measures stand side by side with anti-vaxxers, neo-nazis, conspiracy theorists and the like. Common sense should tell the average person that it is a bad idea to mix with these folks on the fringe of society, because you can't expect to be taken serious when the few things you say begin to blend together with extremists.

The biggest problem with such gatherings is that non-extremists begin to pick up the ideas of extremists, because they begin to talk with them out of boredom. Some easily influenced people then get it into their heads that things like masks and vaccination are bad, neither of which has any scientific basis.

The biggest fallacy going around is the belief in personal freedom that should be held above everything. There's no such thing as complete personal freedom in a functioning society, because then it would be anarchy. There are laws against theft, speeding, murder etc., all for the sake of making life safe for as many people as possible. The thing is that these laws have been refined over the course of decades or even centuries, so they make a whole lot more sense than the bulk of corona measures. This, however, does not mean that all corona measures were wrong or outright stupid.

I don't think the people of Canada have much to worry about. More and more European countries are strongly considering to loosen restrictions in the coming weeks and if things don't go wrong - and it is unlikely that they will - then the more hesitant countries will follow suit.

The bottom line is that you can be against corona measures while at the same time creating enough distance between yourself and extremists.

For every extreme on the side of freedom (not being obliged to vaccinate your kids for example), for every extremist flag on that side, there was one on the other side, and on both sides they were so few it was not even something to mention. The protests were more than peaceful, I know I was there. All there was was love, families concerned for the psychological wellbeing of their children.

To say that the freedom convoy is birthed in extremeism is absolutely ridiculous and just more of the propaganda our propagandist media and government threw at us. I have absolutely no trust in the media and their paid lies.

Canada is about 85% vaccinated, so what logic dictates that truck drivers should require vaccination to work. That's right, none.

The children in my community don't want to be vaccinated but are required to if they want to participate in sports. These are kids at very low risk of anything, so honest parents are just concerned, what extremism is there in that?

This world has lost its marbles.

Last edited by padib - on 18 February 2022

sundin13 said:
Jaicee said:

*sighs*

You know better than this. Both Trudeau and you are being more than a little disingenuous. What he, and you, are attempting to do is paint the many millions of Canadians and Quebecers who have supported this movement as literal fucking Nazis for opposing the indefinite continuation of Covid restrictions. It's retarded and you know it. It's even more retarded that you actually buy into Trudeau's suggestion that people like the Jewish descendants of Holocaust survivors, the grandchildren of WW2 veterans who died fighting the actual German Nazis during World War II, etc. etc. are Nazis because they're...the ones calling for more personal freedoms here and opposing the transformation of Canada into something very much akin to a police state.

You know why you have to do that? You know why you and the rest of the left have to idiotically resort to painting everyone who disagrees with you on anything as a neo-Nazi? Because you can't actually defend your positions on the merits.

I reciprocate your sighs.

First of all, I just want to say that the ableist slurs are entirely unnecessary. 

Beyond that, I find it funny that you complain about me being unable to defend my position on its merits while simultaneously ignoring virtually everything I said (yet still trying to stuff as many words into my mouth as you can fit). 

I very much agree that Trudeau's statement is fairly reductive and unhelpful, however, in the strictest sense of the word, it is accurate. To say someone is standing with Nazi's is not saying that they are Nazis. That is your own words and biases interpreting Trudeau objectively incorrectly.

In my opinion, there is very much a legitimate conversation to be had regarding the close ties between the convoy and the extremist actions, views and groups. There should be a point in which the whole thing becomes tainted, and refusing to even have that conversation, in my opinion, enables extremism. 

The alt right anti-cancel culture movement in a nutshell.

Instead of "your criticism is wrong", "you're wrong to criticize". You obviously did not say everyone who supported the convoy was a nazi, but that's an easier strawman to attack.



Jaicee said:

(I'm posting this as a separate topic from the U.S. Politics one because it includes elements of Canadian politics.)

The U.S. Republicans may not deserve to regain power, but the Democrats definitely deserve to lose it. They've lost my vote.

I mean let's take this sudden wave of blue states deciding to lift masking requirements. In just the last three days, California, Oregon, Washington, Illinois, Delaware (yep, President Biden's home state!), New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Rhode Island have all suddenly announced at least some lifting of masking requirements, with even more likely on the way. Is it just a coincidence that this has happened all at once in the same week -- have blue state governors just discovered polling shifts or something -- or could it be that that bridge to Detroit from Canada is now being blocked by the Freedom Convoy and there's a certain desire on the part of the party currently governing our country (apparently save for the Biden Administration itself!) to, you know, do what's possible to end that situation as quickly as possible and avoid the phenom being fully replicated Stateside?

According to the Washington Post and every other mainstream media outlet out there, I'm supposed to be furious about this. I'm supposed to be terrified of the Canadian working class peacefully striking and honking horns for my right to FINALLY go face-naked in public months after getting my third shot for same virus well within the same year. They're terrorists! They're Nazis! They're disrupting normal life! *sighs* That's...just no. No they're not. This is why Biden is fucking 15 points underwater now in the average of national polls and still dropping. Or it's the latest reason anyway; the administration keeps supplying more. The fucking Freedom Convoy is the happiest news I've heard in years! I haven't been this happy with any one North American (or at this point North American-originated) social movement since the Women's March of 2017 and the Occupy Wall Street movement of 2011. Thank God, man. Something had to give for this considerable Covid overreach to finally start winding down and coming to an end and I couldn't be happier with the results so far. I hope it continues and expands and fuck anyone who's against it! I'm absolutely miserable these days and the primary reasons are corona fatigue in general and the prohibition on going face-naked indoors months after getting my third shot for the same virus well within the same year and a full month after the relatively mild omicron surge (omicron now being the only relevant strain of the virus in the U.S.) peaked in particular. Nothing will get my previous conditions back -- nothing will make me an "essential worker" who deserves higher pay, tips, and words of respect and appreciation rather than an "unskilled" one again who who can suck it in people's minds. But maybe I can at least get to breathe normally while I'm otherwise miserable for a change in the foreseeable future!

The press can preach until they're blue in the face that only Republicans are dangerously authoritarian, but the public clearly feels otherwise and maybe the fact that they just...won't...let...go of their visceral need to control my everyday lifestyle decisions as a perfectly healthy and responsible 39-year-old working person under even the best of virus conditions unless and until faced with extreme financial prodding from my social class and an upcoming election season wherein the same will hold them accountable more directly sums up the essence of why.

Enough with Covid restrictions! Enough with this crackpot open borders experiment! Enough defunding the police and ending bail! Enough selling out our friends and allies abroad! Enough calling yourselves feminists while aggressively seeking new legal restrictions on the rights of women and calling those of us who protest misogynist slurs! Enough -- for God sakes, enough -- capitalizing the B in black, the B in brown, the W in white, reflecting the fact that the color of people's skin is the now the most important thing about them in your mind! And enough of the "respectable" press only ever quoting one side of any argument and constantly denigrating the unwashed masses for disagreeing with them on just about everything at this point! The return of Republicans might be a far from ideal answer, but it's the one that's available and Democrats, I'm sorry, have to be penalized for the living nightmare that has been the last year. I voted for someone as boring as Biden to get rid of Trump and all the thrilling "excitement" that came along with his presidency, get life back to normal, and then forget he was there for four years, forget about politics. More than a year later, I find that I have been unable to forget about politics or go back to leading a halfway normal life and that my cost of living this rather abnormal life is starting to exceed its value to me. I call that a failure.

I hate the whole modern world right now practically. I hate everything from Covid restrictions to social media in general to bitcoin and practically all news media but Fox News and just...want...life...to go back...to normal!! That's what people are going to vote for this November. Democrats can either be a part of that or they can lose their jobs like the rest of us. That's the reality of the matter. Sanity is chasing the Democratic Party. The question is how long they're willing to evade it and at what cost.

EDIT: There was a cheerier version of this post I started with that was pretty much just "YaY Freedom Convoy!", but this is how it wound up. Sorry. I'm basically just trying to say that I'm happy about the movement and its results already and angry about the way its been treated in most of the media.

I think I kinda love you. It's not like when I fell in love with onionberry, and wished every morning that I could wake up with her avatar on the pillow next to me. It's even more shallow than that. I love your brain. I can't even...as a life-long leftist, with how disgusting the left has become. The left now, in totality, is worse than the post 9/11 right. An AMAZING, and well earned distinction. I was politically homeless for a good while, but have now started seeing more value in right wing talking points. And considering the vile things the right has been tied to in my lifetime, it's a transition that makes me go cross-eyed every time I take a moment to dwell on it. I guess I'm now, gun to my head, center-right, if an alien race demanded I define my leanings on threat of global destruction. Of course, there's much more to this than left v right, and I'm not looking at right wing politicians as saviors. Right wing voices have consistently been more sane than their left counterpoints for a a while now, but those in power, who claim to represent either side, are almost completely untrustworthy.

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