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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Well, looks like next gen didn't kill Switch third party support

Mano777 on 22 March 2021
Kakadu18 said:
Mano777 said:

Random rules? Ohhh god, triple a,AAA

kenna does not seem triple A

R8 is triple A, that will not have to switch at launch

Elder ring and far cry 6 probably won't go out for switch either

Do you think only AAA games are relevant? How do you even define AAA? By how the game looks? You say Octopath looks like an indie game. Do you think it's irrelevant because of that or what? It's probably one of the best games of 2018 and sold over 2.5 million copies.

You seemed to try to downplay it with that statement, which is dumb. There are indie games that outshine all of your AAA stuff by miles. Hades, Ori, Hollow Knight, Dead Cells, Untitled Goose Game, Celeste, Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon 1 and 2, Disco Elysium, Undertale, Transistor, Bastion, Enter the Gungeon, Into the Breach etc. These game have genuinely creative ideas and launch finished, not buggy and without predatory microtransactions. Far Cry 6 will almost guaranteed have dozens of annoying bugs and glitches.

Btw it's called Elden Ring.

you got me wrong. My point is that Nintendo's consoles have always received low budget games, some of them are better than many triple-a, at no time did I talk about indie quality, now it is a fact that the switch does not receive most of the  triple-A, example you may not like gta but it is the game that sells the most, one of the most awarded and is not on the switch,sekiro was considered game of the year in 2019 and also not released

my conclusion is that nothing has changed since the n64 (gamecube was different, it received many triples simultaneously with ps2 and xbox) and Nintendo continues to receive a lot of low budget games, and little support in relation to the main productions



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Mano777 on 22 March 2021
Mnementh said:
Mano777 said:

Random rules? Ohhh god, triple a,AAA

Again, you pick some subset not defined in the thread to make a point nobody asked for. And triple-A is pretty random. The only ones really caring about the budget are the managers of the respective company. For a gamer like me budget is practically irrelevant. I care if a game is good, and the experience says that quality and budget are at most loosely connected - at most, but a high budget is in no way a guarantee for a bug-free, frustration-free and enjoyable experience. The only guarantee is, that with a high budget the managers look for more options to get their money back, with lootboxes, premium editions, Battle passes and DLC on top of a full price.

You seem to have a bad opinion about indies, but the ratio of turds among AAA games is not smaller than among indies in my experience. There are a lot of great, well-thought out indie games, that clearly beat some of the AAA money making skinner boxes, optimized to squeeze as much money from the customers as possible. Yes, there are also great AAA games, no question, but not more often than great indies. So as a gamer I don't at all understand the fixation on budget. Let the suits care about that. As a gamer the only thing that matters, is how much I enjoy my time with the game. Regardless if a single developer made it on rations or a team of thousands with exorbitant budget.

Read above, sorry for my English, I'm from Colombia and I'm not used to it



IcaroRibeiro on 22 March 2021
Mano777 said:
Mnementh said:

Look at it this way. At the start of the year, both Nintendo and Sony presented their lineup for the year (or parts of it) just days from each other. Nintendo showed 20 third-party games (NOT including news about already released games like DLC), Sony 8 (and as you downplayed Octopath Traveler as *looks indie* - five of these actually were indies). Of these games only one was in 2022 for Nintendo while 16 were dated for summer 2021 or earlier. For Sony only 4 were dated up until and including summer.

However you slice it, the Switch lineup looks strong compared to PS5. Not that I think PS5 is bad, Kena for instance looks great. But in comparison it is clear, that Switch has proper third-party support. You just try to disqualify some games according to random rules. Youjust could say: Switch has no 3rd-party support I care for. That would be OK, but also pretty meaningless.

Random rules? Ohhh god, triple a,AAA

kenna does not seem triple A

R8 is triple A, that will not have to switch at launch

Elder ring and far cry 6 probably won't go out for switch either

How exactly do you define triple A game? 

It's a very broad definition but I guess any game with a budget to employee over a hundred developers, designers, QA teams, voice actors, writers and etc can already be called AAA for me 

I don't know how many people worked in Kena, but based on how it looks I doubt it's not a AAA game unless the trailer is extremely misleading in therms of graphics, length and content (which can be the case I guess)

Anyway, a game like Pikmin 3 deluxe had about 98 workers on it (including directors, managers and the team that worked in the demo), and it's a game that I define as A but not AAA. But Pikmin is a small scale game that take about 15 hours to beat 

A game like Pokemon SwSh take around 200 people to make 

A game like BOTW over 300

And a game like Cyberpunk around 500

So, in your opinion, which one of those fall into AAA umbrella? BOTW? Cyberpunk? Pokemon? Neither?



curl-6 on 22 March 2021

I don't get the fixation on "AAA" games. I enjoy some of them as much as the next guy, but I also really enjoy stuff like Ori, Yooka Laylee and the Impossible Lair, Trine 4, Hotshot Racing, FAST, Art of Balance, etc.

Mano777 said:

I don't know people who play more third-party campaign games than Nintendo on the switch, usually when it occurs with multiplayer overwach

I'm a Switch owner who has more single player third party games (27) than I do first party titles. (7) Online multiplayer isn't my thing.



CarcharodonKraz on 23 March 2021

curl-6 said:

I don't get the fixation on "AAA" games. I enjoy some of them as much as the next guy, but I also really enjoy stuff like Ori, Yooka Laylee and the Impossible Lair, Trine 4, Hotshot Racing, FAST, Art of Balance, etc.

i think i can provide some further insight on the "fixation on AAA games".  Note, i'm attempting to speak to the preference and focus of AAA games, and not attempting to categorize or define them (although i will use some references as a tool).  Off the top of my head i think i can explain in best in 3ish points.  Time, money, a particular emotional response and the relation between the 3 (that's the ish).  As well as the demographic i may likely represent. 

When i'm spending $60-$70 on a game, there's a certain expectation of that games value proposition.  Last of Us 2 and mega man 2 are two games that have great gameplay.  But, i think it's fair to say $60 for mega man 2 is a bit of a reach.  A big reason for this is the length.  Last of us 2 took me about 40 hours and 2-3 months to beat.  Mega man 2 is going to last me 2 hours tops.  Maybe 6 if i'm a new comer.  Looking particularly at the time aspect for this example, last of us 2 is clearly the better value for that $60 price tag.  Now, i'm not blind to the fact that you can't base value on time alone.  That's why i picked 2 games i really like.  I'm sure you would have no trouble coming up with your own example that parallels those parameters. Side note, i often compare the time a game provides with movies.  I often go see a 1.5hour movie for 5 dollars on tuesdays.  So i don't think it's too much to ask for a $60 game to provide me an equal value of time of 18 hours. 

Next, let's make a more controversial comparison with 2 lengthy games. Both of which, again,  i really enjoyed.  on one hand we have octopath traveler.  Another game that took me about 40 hours to play and a game that had fantastic gameplay.  Yet, when i got to the end, i didn't feel like i got my money's worth.  I really focus in on 2-3 reasons for this. 1- the slightly outdated artstyle (which really did feed my nostalgia) and complete lack of full motion cut scenes failed to immerse me into the game world.  In addition, the team chose to string together a series of side stories you will often find in jrpgs like this instead of including them in a grander overall story.  These detractions failed to elicit that emotion i mentioned.  This feeling of being sucked into something epic and/or grandiose.  It felt more like a novel amusement.  Now, look at a game like shadow of war.  Again, i really enjoyed the gameplay here.  And the full motion cut scenes and voice acting really immersed me into the story of the game. The work put into the character animations went countering attacks really brings talion to life.  when i got to the end i felt like i really got my money's worth out of the experience.  Like the game really deserved to be as expensive as it was and that alot of money and effort was put into making me feel that way. And when your an older gamer with not that much time to begin with, focusing your gaming time on anything else feels like a waste.  

Now, I would underlline this next statement 7 times if i knew how.  *there is nothing wrong with smaller or indie games*.  Hell, shovel knight is the best NES game that was never made. But when i play those games i do so as a pallette cleanser between the AAA games i focus my gaming attention on. For myself and people like me, smaller/indie games are the cool opening act at a concert that we may really enjoy, but there not the reason we went to the show.  

Hope that was helpful.



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curl-6 on 23 March 2021
CarcharodonKraz said:

curl-6 said:

I don't get the fixation on "AAA" games. I enjoy some of them as much as the next guy, but I also really enjoy stuff like Ori, Yooka Laylee and the Impossible Lair, Trine 4, Hotshot Racing, FAST, Art of Balance, etc.

i think i can provide some further insight on the "fixation on AAA games".  Note, i'm attempting to speak to the preference and focus of AAA games, and not attempting to categorize or define them (although i will use some references as a tool).  Off the top of my head i think i can explain in best in 3ish points.  Time, money, a particular emotional response and the relation between the 3 (that's the ish).  As well as the demographic i may likely represent. 

When i'm spending $60-$70 on a game, there's a certain expectation of that games value proposition.  Last of Us 2 and mega man 2 are two games that have great gameplay.  But, i think it's fair to say $60 for mega man 2 is a bit of a reach.  A big reason for this is the length.  Last of us 2 took me about 40 hours and 2-3 months to beat.  Mega man 2 is going to last me 2 hours tops.  Maybe 6 if i'm a new comer.  Looking particularly at the time aspect for this example, last of us 2 is clearly the better value for that $60 price tag.  Now, i'm not blind to the fact that you can't base value on time alone.  That's why i picked 2 games i really like.  I'm sure you would have no trouble coming up with your own example that parallels those parameters. Side note, i often compare the time a game provides with movies.  I often go see a 1.5hour movie for 5 dollars on tuesdays.  So i don't think it's too much to ask for a $60 game to provide me an equal value of time of 18 hours. 

Next, let's make a more controversial comparison with 2 lengthy games. Both of which, again,  i really enjoyed.  on one hand we have octopath traveler.  Another game that took me about 40 hours to play and a game that had fantastic gameplay.  Yet, when i got to the end, i didn't feel like i got my money's worth.  I really focus in on 2-3 reasons for this. 1- the slightly outdated artstyle (which really did feed my nostalgia) and complete lack of full motion cut scenes failed to immerse me into the game world.  In addition, the team chose to string together a series of side stories you will often find in jrpgs like this instead of including them in a grander overall story.  These detractions failed to elicit that emotion i mentioned.  This feeling of being sucked into something epic and/or grandiose.  It felt more like a novel amusement.  Now, look at a game like shadow of war.  Again, i really enjoyed the gameplay here.  And the full motion cut scenes and voice acting really immersed me into the story of the game. The work put into the character animations went countering attacks really brings talion to life.  when i got to the end i felt like i really got my money's worth out of the experience.  Like the game really deserved to be as expensive as it was and that alot of money and effort was put into making me feel that way. And when your an older gamer with not that much time to begin with, focusing your gaming time on anything else feels like a waste.  

Now, I would underlline this next statement 7 times if i knew how.  *there is nothing wrong with smaller or indie games*.  Hell, shovel knight is the best NES game that was never made. But when i play those games i do so as a pallette cleanser between the AAA games i focus my gaming attention on. For myself and people like me, smaller/indie games are the cool opening act at a concert that we may really enjoy, but there not the reason we went to the show.  

Hope that was helpful.

Fair enough, you're entitled to your preferences.

If a big part it comes down to production value, then it's kind of impossible for Switch to compete in that regard by its very nature as a device that has to function portably and therefore at a lower power level.

Still though, when AAA is but one sector of the industry, so to bring it back to the thread topic, it can't really be said that the Switch doesn't have third party support or that thirds are jumping ship just because games like Plants vs Zombies BFN, Subnautica Below Zero, No More Heroes 3, or Monster Hunter don't have the same level of production value as the latest and biggest AAA blockbusters.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 23 March 2021

HoangNhatAnh on 23 March 2021
Mano777 said:
Kakadu18 said:

Do you think only AAA games are relevant? How do you even define AAA? By how the game looks? You say Octopath looks like an indie game. Do you think it's irrelevant because of that or what? It's probably one of the best games of 2018 and sold over 2.5 million copies.

You seemed to try to downplay it with that statement, which is dumb. There are indie games that outshine all of your AAA stuff by miles. Hades, Ori, Hollow Knight, Dead Cells, Untitled Goose Game, Celeste, Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon 1 and 2, Disco Elysium, Undertale, Transistor, Bastion, Enter the Gungeon, Into the Breach etc. These game have genuinely creative ideas and launch finished, not buggy and without predatory microtransactions. Far Cry 6 will almost guaranteed have dozens of annoying bugs and glitches.

Btw it's called Elden Ring.

you got me wrong. My point is that Nintendo's consoles have always received low budget games, some of them are better than many triple-a, at no time did I talk about indie quality, now it is a fact that the switch does not receive most of the  triple-A, example you may not like gta but it is the game that sells the most, one of the most awarded and is not on the switch,sekiro was considered game of the year in 2019 and also not released

my conclusion is that nothing has changed since the n64 (gamecube was different, it received many triples simultaneously with ps2 and xbox) and Nintendo continues to receive a lot of low budget games, and little support in relation to the main productions

It's always like that since the beginning, yet Switch still sold amazingly. Unlike PS/Xbox who needs both 1st/3rd party games to survive, Nintendo can survive with just only 1st party games and 3rd party exclusives.



CarcharodonKraz on 24 March 2021
curl-6 said:
CarcharodonKraz said:

i think i can provide some further insight on the "fixation on AAA games".  Note, i'm attempting to speak to the preference and focus of AAA games, and not attempting to categorize or define them (although i will use some references as a tool).  Off the top of my head i think i can explain in best in 3ish points.  Time, money, a particular emotional response and the relation between the 3 (that's the ish).  As well as the demographic i may likely represent. 

When i'm spending $60-$70 on a game, there's a certain expectation of that games value proposition.  Last of Us 2 and mega man 2 are two games that have great gameplay.  But, i think it's fair to say $60 for mega man 2 is a bit of a reach.  A big reason for this is the length.  Last of us 2 took me about 40 hours and 2-3 months to beat.  Mega man 2 is going to last me 2 hours tops.  Maybe 6 if i'm a new comer.  Looking particularly at the time aspect for this example, last of us 2 is clearly the better value for that $60 price tag.  Now, i'm not blind to the fact that you can't base value on time alone.  That's why i picked 2 games i really like.  I'm sure you would have no trouble coming up with your own example that parallels those parameters. Side note, i often compare the time a game provides with movies.  I often go see a 1.5hour movie for 5 dollars on tuesdays.  So i don't think it's too much to ask for a $60 game to provide me an equal value of time of 18 hours. 

Next, let's make a more controversial comparison with 2 lengthy games. Both of which, again,  i really enjoyed.  on one hand we have octopath traveler.  Another game that took me about 40 hours to play and a game that had fantastic gameplay.  Yet, when i got to the end, i didn't feel like i got my money's worth.  I really focus in on 2-3 reasons for this. 1- the slightly outdated artstyle (which really did feed my nostalgia) and complete lack of full motion cut scenes failed to immerse me into the game world.  In addition, the team chose to string together a series of side stories you will often find in jrpgs like this instead of including them in a grander overall story.  These detractions failed to elicit that emotion i mentioned.  This feeling of being sucked into something epic and/or grandiose.  It felt more like a novel amusement.  Now, look at a game like shadow of war.  Again, i really enjoyed the gameplay here.  And the full motion cut scenes and voice acting really immersed me into the story of the game. The work put into the character animations went countering attacks really brings talion to life.  when i got to the end i felt like i really got my money's worth out of the experience.  Like the game really deserved to be as expensive as it was and that alot of money and effort was put into making me feel that way. And when your an older gamer with not that much time to begin with, focusing your gaming time on anything else feels like a waste.  

Now, I would underlline this next statement 7 times if i knew how.  *there is nothing wrong with smaller or indie games*.  Hell, shovel knight is the best NES game that was never made. But when i play those games i do so as a pallette cleanser between the AAA games i focus my gaming attention on. For myself and people like me, smaller/indie games are the cool opening act at a concert that we may really enjoy, but there not the reason we went to the show.  

Hope that was helpful.

Fair enough, you're entitled to your preferences.

If a big part it comes down to production value, then it's kind of impossible for Switch to compete in that regard by its very nature as a device that has to function portably and therefore at a lower power level.

Still though, when AAA is but one sector of the industry, so to bring it back to the thread topic, it can't really be said that the Switch doesn't have third party support or that thirds are jumping ship just because games like Plants vs Zombies BFN, Subnautica Below Zero, No More Heroes 3, or Monster Hunter don't have the same level of production value as the latest and biggest AAA blockbusters.

Sure, I dont think anyone expected switch to lose all 3rd party support due to gen changes. It the context of ur op, it seems to me like theres a communication breakdown between you and the ppl making the claims u are referring to. I dont think ive seen anyone proclaim the switch would miss out on the titles uve mentioned due to that change. I could be wrong. Maybe uve talked to ppl who thought the next sushi striker or dynasty warriors game would be next gen exclusive, but I cant help myself to assume they meant the big AAAs weve talked about and were pointing out the very statement u just made above "its kind of impossible for switch to compete..." But, like I said, I could be wrong on that. But hey, as an aside thanks for keepin things resepctful. Not namin names but it looks like some took the topic a bit personally :)



Otter on 24 March 2021

The AAA vs non AAA argument should be contextualised to the topic at hand. Was anyone arguing that PS5 & Series X would steal all of Switch's indie support? I see that as unlikely.

As things stand Nintendo's overall 3rd party support is pretty solid and far better than previous Switch years. If the year continues as it started (Bravely Default/Monster Hunter/Crash), then thats more then what people were expecting. Still not looking at a realistic future where we see most publishers releasing their major new titles on the Switch (ala Capcom releasing Monster Hunter) but its pretty easy to predict that this will change with Switch 2 (diminishing returns/DLSS/More scalable engines).



Mnementh on 24 March 2021
Otter said:

The AAA vs non AAA argument should be contextualised to the topic at hand. Was anyone arguing that PS5 & Series X would steal all of Switch's indie support? I see that as unlikely.

But as it stands, PS5 and Xbox Series didn't steal anything. Not indies and western AAA wasn't present to begin with and therefore couldn't be stolen. As you said, this year the 3rd-party support looks better than ever.

That's the main point I feel of the thread: the release of PS5 and Xbox Series didn't impact Switch.

Last edited by Mnementh - on 24 March 2021

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