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Forums - Sony - PS4 to PS5 transition will take 3 years, more cross-gen games coming from Sony

DonFerrari said:
Mnementh said:
Dulfite said:
DragonRouge said:
JuliusHackebeil said:
Why would I buy a ps5 than? I bought into the promise of an ssd that would make completely new game design possible. No long, winding corridors, no bland nothing in between interesting stuff that has to be loaded in, etc. If I have a 10+ tflop + super fast ssd machine to play games that run perfectly fine on something that will be 10 years old after those 3 years are over, I might aswell buy the ps5 in 3 years.Can't they see how this is bad in many consumers eyes? I think it is obvious that no one would be hurt if they leave the ps4 behind after Horizon 2. With this they will just hurt ps5 sales. After a long ps4 generation people are ready to buy new tech. Don't give them less reason to want this.

There, you just cracked the code for smart gaming. No game or system is worth buying at launch price. If more people where patient, maybe, just maybe, we wouldn't have $70 games now.

And then all those developers experiencing crunch time would have their bonuses and salary slashed, many would lose their jobs and those remaining would have even more work consolidated into their day to day workload. When you hurt a business' finances, the billionaires aren't the ones suffering. It's the working class that suffers. In this case, even at $70, games aren't making what they made back in the 80's (if you count inflation) and are certainly more proportionally expensive to develop now. So if we were to all do as you suggest, we'd either have an overstressed, shrinking, underpaid workforce making games compared to what we have now, or games will start seeing significantly lower budgets and won't be nearly as grand as we expect them to be. Which of those two options would you pick so that you can save that extra $10-20 (or whatever you deem a reasonable price) per game?

Personally, I wish games would become more expensive so that anyone in software development can be more properly compensated for their high-demand, crunch-time-style jobs.

What? Bobby Kotick is one of the richest persons in the world, while Activision employees choose the cheapest meal in the office canteen, because that's what they can afford. 10$ less for each Activision game can be payed by Kotick and he would still be one of the richest persons. You have it wrong: if a company flourishes or struggles, the workers get paid the absolute minimum. You don't get more money in the pockets of the devs if you support price hikes on games, the only way is to support unions for game devs.

First you didn't understand his point, he is saying that no matter what it isn't on Bobby that the cuts will be made... and even if he earned 0 dollar that wouldn't change the price of the games 1USD. Just look at this wages versus the number of games sold a year. Similar to if top management of McDonalds earned minimum wage that wouldn't raise the pay of each employee more than 5USD a month.

Bobby Koticks compensation *decreased* in 2019 to $30M. If he would earn as much as the average of all the 9.200 employees of Activision, everyone would get $3.260 more a year, or $270 more the month. That is different from $5. And I want to add, Kotick is just one of the execs, management consist of more people.



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shikamaru317 said:
Dulfite said:
DragonRouge said:
JuliusHackebeil said:
Why would I buy a ps5 than? I bought into the promise of an ssd that would make completely new game design possible. No long, winding corridors, no bland nothing in between interesting stuff that has to be loaded in, etc. If I have a 10+ tflop + super fast ssd machine to play games that run perfectly fine on something that will be 10 years old after those 3 years are over, I might aswell buy the ps5 in 3 years.Can't they see how this is bad in many consumers eyes? I think it is obvious that no one would be hurt if they leave the ps4 behind after Horizon 2. With this they will just hurt ps5 sales. After a long ps4 generation people are ready to buy new tech. Don't give them less reason to want this.

There, you just cracked the code for smart gaming. No game or system is worth buying at launch price. If more people where patient, maybe, just maybe, we wouldn't have $70 games now.

And then all those developers experiencing crunch time would have their bonuses and salary slashed, many would lose their jobs and those remaining would have even more work consolidated into their day to day workload. When you hurt a business' finances, the billionaires aren't the ones suffering. It's the working class that suffers. In this case, even at $70, games aren't making what they made back in the 80's (if you count inflation) and are certainly more proportionally expensive to develop now. So if we were to all do as you suggest, we'd either have an overstressed, shrinking, underpaid workforce making games compared to what we have now, or games will start seeing significantly lower budgets and won't be nearly as grand as we expect them to be. Which of those two options would you pick so that you can save that extra $10-20 (or whatever you deem a reasonable price) per game?

Personally, I wish games would become more expensive so that anyone in software development can be more properly compensated for their high-demand, crunch-time-style jobs.

I just hope that your average grunt developers will actually see a pay raise thanks to the increase to $70/80 euros. Sadly, I suspect that the extra money will all go to line the already fat wallets of the executives, bastards like Bobby Kotick over at Activision, who gets paid 319x more than the average Activision game developer gets paid. AAA game development seems like one of the lowest paid fields that typically requires 4 years of college, only a handful of other college degree requiring professions like teachers seem to get paid less than AAA game developers. Add on to that crunch as well, which in some cases is non-paid overtime, and I can't help but feel bad for AAA developers.  

I don't think I'd go that far for annual salary. Per hour? Yeah I could see that. But that's because of crunch time.

I heard once from a guy in carpentry (like 30 years of experience) that he researched it and learned around 97% of college graduates make less than people in trade skill jobs (welders, boilermakers, carpenters, etc.).

A ton of professions that require college degrees make less than developers. Marketing, business, communications majors probably on average make considerably less than developers. Teachers do get shafted though, I know because I was one for 4 years. Now everytime I look at teaching openings I look at the pay and it makes me run far away (and I worked for one of the best paying school districts in my states before I quit and it still pays nothing compared to what I will be making in a few years with my new career). As much as I have a passion for teaching, I have a greater passion for providing for my family and getting into a situation where my wife doesn't have to work as much.



Mnementh said:
Dulfite said:
DragonRouge said:
JuliusHackebeil said:
Why would I buy a ps5 than? I bought into the promise of an ssd that would make completely new game design possible. No long, winding corridors, no bland nothing in between interesting stuff that has to be loaded in, etc. If I have a 10+ tflop + super fast ssd machine to play games that run perfectly fine on something that will be 10 years old after those 3 years are over, I might aswell buy the ps5 in 3 years.Can't they see how this is bad in many consumers eyes? I think it is obvious that no one would be hurt if they leave the ps4 behind after Horizon 2. With this they will just hurt ps5 sales. After a long ps4 generation people are ready to buy new tech. Don't give them less reason to want this.

There, you just cracked the code for smart gaming. No game or system is worth buying at launch price. If more people where patient, maybe, just maybe, we wouldn't have $70 games now.

And then all those developers experiencing crunch time would have their bonuses and salary slashed, many would lose their jobs and those remaining would have even more work consolidated into their day to day workload. When you hurt a business' finances, the billionaires aren't the ones suffering. It's the working class that suffers. In this case, even at $70, games aren't making what they made back in the 80's (if you count inflation) and are certainly more proportionally expensive to develop now. So if we were to all do as you suggest, we'd either have an overstressed, shrinking, underpaid workforce making games compared to what we have now, or games will start seeing significantly lower budgets and won't be nearly as grand as we expect them to be. Which of those two options would you pick so that you can save that extra $10-20 (or whatever you deem a reasonable price) per game?

Personally, I wish games would become more expensive so that anyone in software development can be more properly compensated for their high-demand, crunch-time-style jobs.

What? Bobby Kotick is one of the richest persons in the world, while Activision employees choose the cheapest meal in the office canteen, because that's what they can afford. 10$ less for each Activision game can be payed by Kotick and he would still be one of the richest persons. You have it wrong: if a company flourishes or struggles, the workers get paid the absolute minimum. You don't get more money in the pockets of the devs if you support price hikes on games, the only way is to support unions for game devs.

That doesn't negate my argument that developers would have a harder time getting good hours/compensation if people by and large held out buying games until they were lower in price. Buying at $70 may not help the situation, to your point, but it certainly won't help those workers if less people are buying at $70 and waiting until it is 25-75% off. If there are more profits, sure maybe none of those go to workers, but if there are less profits you can guarantee that will trickle down to screw the lower workers over.



Replicant said:

Dude, you are on fire with these threads
This is just from 1 month.

Negative: PS4 to PS5 transition will take 3 years, more cross-gen games coming from Sony
Positive: Microsoft teams up with Dwayne Johnson to give Series X consoles to children's hospitals
Negative: PS5 back compat may not be as complete as I first thought
Positive: Microsoft: Xbox Series S and X only next-gen consoles with full RDNA 2 feature set
Positive: Series X's rumored heat issues seem to be false
Positive: Microsoft will allow manufacturers other than Seagate to make Xbox expansion cards
Negative: Peter Parker in PS5 remaster seems to have been changed to look more like Tom Holland

Damn, if I wouldn't know better, I would say that the guy has an agenda, but we all know that's not the case. I mean, in all honesty, this thread could be seen as a neutral one if looked at from a mountain top with one eye closed.



Vote the Mayor for Mayor!

I commend them for their transparency. Shame they didnt come right out of the gate like this but I guess they still need to please a certain outspoken group of fans on the internet.

They just got themselves a new customer. Been looking for a reason to buy a PS4. 

Last edited by foodfather - on 11 November 2020

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Sony already set the seed that PS5 believe in generation and all game will focus on PS5. Now they can backtrack and quietly support the PS4, without really changing the mind set of gamers.



foodfather said:

I commend them for their transparency. Shame they didnt come right out of the gate like this but I guess they still need to please a certain outspoken group of fans on the internet.

They just got themselves a new customer. Been looking for a reason to buy a PS4. 

(Screams internally)

Reads last line: oh ok lol 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

So does that mean we can stop worrying about the Series S for now?



sales2099 said:
foodfather said:

I commend them for their transparency. Shame they didnt come right out of the gate like this but I guess they still need to please a certain outspoken group of fans on the internet.

They just got themselves a new customer. Been looking for a reason to buy a PS4. 

(Screams internally)

Reads last line: oh ok lol 

srs I remember getting banned for trolling GOW Ascension back in the day, but now they gone ahead and made probably THE BEST exclusive of this gen (GOW) so if GOW2 hits PS4, I'd be more than pleased. 



chakkra said:

So does that mean we can stop worrying about the Series S for now?

Even if every title from SIE are cross gen for the next couple of years, the Series S will be here for the whole generation.