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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Bloomberg: Multiple Devs Saying Nintendo Asking For 4K Switch Games

Soundwave said:
BraLoD said:
If the Series S can't run games at native 4K why would a Switch 2 be able to?
Only if it's straight-up 1080p upscalling, which the system would do, not the devs.

Nvidia DLSS could do it because you only need to hit 900p-1080p to get 4K. So if Nvidia is giving them a chip with Tensor cores, there's your answer right there. 

Also running Mario Kart 8 (a game that already runs at 1080p on the current Switch) at 4K is much, much different from running say ... a next-gen game at 4K. 

You can't just look at 4K as one standard metric. 

You don't *have* to have Tensor cores to do DLSS. You can perform the necessary calculations on the CUDA cores.

Bofferbrauer2 said:

But they might include bigger textures or textures with a higher resolution to not make the game look too blurry after upscaling. DLSS can only do so much, if the texture is already blurry, it won't be able to sharpen that one beyond the blurryness that it originally had.

As a side effect, this would most probably also mean an extension of the RAM, which will probably go from 4 to 8 GiB. And hopefully a bigger storage while we're at it. 128 GB shouldn't be more expensive now than the 32GB were at the launch of the Switch.

DLSS is A.I upscaling, it does perform a few "tricks" so that shit textures look, well. Less shit. So yes, it will clean up blurry textures.

 It's not just taking a 720P game and forcing it to run at 4k, there is so much more to it.




--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Dulfite said:
So hypothetically if it launches March 2021, that's 4 years into Switch life, and it would be the flag ship device for two years until 2023 when Switch 2 comes?

I have mixed feelings. I don't want Switch 2 sales to be diminished because of buyer fatigue at a bunch of people only having bought a Switch Pro 2 years (or less) prior to that.

Such a weird thought. Do you think that happened with the New 3DS XL? 



Hiku said:

If this would be through DLSS, I'm guessing they'd be asking some devs to implement some higher quality assets in their games?
Not sure how that technique works.

Well, I would guess that 4K footage of a game is needed to the training of the DLSS network for reconstructing 4k frames from that game.

Well, not exactly needed, but would improve the image quality for specific content.

I mean, if you train the network with a specific art-style footage, the reconstruction will tend to recreate this style. You could have a network trained in general images, but sometimes it would recreate non intended content. A cell-shaded game could lose its cell-shaddy details if reconstructed by a network trained with realistic content, for instance.



BraLoD said:
If the Series S can't run games at native 4K why would a Switch 2 be able to?
Only if it's straight-up 1080p upscalling, which the system would do, not the devs.

Nintendo right now is the only console manufacturer that have access to the most advanced AI upscaling technology (DLSS).

Fun fact, the switch is also on arm. They hit the jackpot in terms of where general computing is going. Not sure if it’s pure coincidence or Nintendo really thought years a head. 

They will reap all the benefits for their next console.



jonathanalis said:
Hiku said:

If this would be through DLSS, I'm guessing they'd be asking some devs to implement some higher quality assets in their games?
Not sure how that technique works.

Well, I would guess that 4K footage of a game is needed to the training of the DLSS network for reconstructing 4k frames from that game.

Well, not exactly needed, but would improve the image quality for specific content.

I mean, if you train the network with a specific art-style footage, the reconstruction will tend to recreate this style. You could have a network trained in general images, but sometimes it would recreate non intended content. A cell-shaded game could lose its cell-shaddy details if reconstructed by a network trained with realistic content, for instance.

16K source image.

https://youtu.be/E98hC9e__Xs

@14:37



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Roma said:
they will call it Switch Home as it won't be swichable like the lite but stationery. That's my prediction

Yes.. with same power as the future switch 2



BlackBeauty said:

Nintendo right now is the only console manufacturer that have access to the most advanced AI upscaling technology (DLSS).

All to often I see this absolutely false information propagated.

AMD has a technology called "Radeon Image Sharpening" that Microsoft and Sony can tap into.



There is also another technology Microsoft has at it's disposal known as "DirectML".
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12549/microsoft-windows-machine-learning-for-gaming



We also have the other image reconstruction features like checkerboard and temporal reconstruction that can absolutely be leveraged by developers.

The more you know.

BlackBeauty said:

Fun fact, the switch is also on arm. They hit the jackpot in terms of where general computing is going. Not sure if it’s pure coincidence or Nintendo really thought years a head. 

They will reap all the benefits for their next console.

It's no secret that ARM is in a ton of devices, but if you want any serious amounts of CPU compute... Then you cannot look past x86.
x86 is where the best performance in the entire industry is and will continue to be.

Either way, the Switch isn't the first ARM powered Nintendo device and it will not be the last, ARM is good for mobile, so what you gain in battery life and portability you do loose in total performance.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

I honestly don't care, my TV can't even display a proper 1080p. I'm more interested to know how it will run or not more demanding games

Like, running Overwatch at 60 FPS would finally make me purchase it 



Pemalite said:
BlackBeauty said:

Nintendo right now is the only console manufacturer that have access to the most advanced AI upscaling technology (DLSS).

All to often I see this absolutely false information propagated.

AMD has a technology called "Radeon Image Sharpening" that Microsoft and Sony can tap into.



There is also another technology Microsoft has at it's disposal known as "DirectML".
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12549/microsoft-windows-machine-learning-for-gaming



We also have the other image reconstruction features like checkerboard and temporal reconstruction that can absolutely be leveraged by developers.

The more you know.

BlackBeauty said:

Fun fact, the switch is also on arm. They hit the jackpot in terms of where general computing is going. Not sure if it’s pure coincidence or Nintendo really thought years a head. 

They will reap all the benefits for their next console.

It's no secret that ARM is in a ton of devices, but if you want any serious amounts of CPU compute... Then you cannot look past x86.
x86 is where the best performance in the entire industry is and will continue to be.

Either way, the Switch isn't the first ARM powered Nintendo device and it will not be the last, ARM is good for mobile, so what you gain in battery life and portability you do loose in total performance.

Why you lie like that tho? You can’t be serious and sit there and say that those even come close to DLSS 2.0.

Not only that Microsoft Direct ML is worse and actually require more power to run whereas DLSS free up performance. There’s nothing in the works from amd that can do the same.

As for arm. The most most powerful super computers/server farm on the planet runs on arm. Most already the made the switch. It’s not just “mobile”. Arm processors are just way more efficient. Quite literally the future of computing.

And The switch is a console. That is actually a hint to where arm is going. It’s NOT about Nintendo in “mobile” or arm in “mobile”. It’s about arm closing the power gap FAST in commercial use/computing. 

Last edited by BlackBeauty - on 10 September 2020

BlackBeauty said:
Pemalite said:

All to often I see this absolutely false information propagated.

AMD has a technology called "Radeon Image Sharpening" that Microsoft and Sony can tap into.



There is also another technology Microsoft has at it's disposal known as "DirectML".
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12549/microsoft-windows-machine-learning-for-gaming



We also have the other image reconstruction features like checkerboard and temporal reconstruction that can absolutely be leveraged by developers.

The more you know.

It's no secret that ARM is in a ton of devices, but if you want any serious amounts of CPU compute... Then you cannot look past x86.
x86 is where the best performance in the entire industry is and will continue to be.

Either way, the Switch isn't the first ARM powered Nintendo device and it will not be the last, ARM is good for mobile, so what you gain in battery life and portability you do loose in total performance.

Why you lie like that tho? You can’t be serious and sit there and say that those even come close to DLSS 2.0.

Not only that Microsoft Direct ML is worse and actually require more power to run whereas DLSS free up performance. There’s nothing in the works from amd that can do the same.

As for arm. The most most powerful super computers/server farm on the planet runs on arm. Most already the made the switch. It’s not just “mobile”. Arm processors are just way more efficient. Quite literally the future of computing.

And The switch is a console. That actually should hint you where arm is going but you seem to ignore that too. It’s NOT about Nintendo in “mobile” or arm in “mobile”. It’s about arm closing the power gap FAST in commercial use/computing. 

Yeah he's making no sense, image sharpening takes up power while DLSS actually frees it up, comparativly, and also literally every graphics card has shapening tools, including nvidia. DLSS is a whole different ball game, that worked like crap early on but not its maturing, especially with the help of the speciallzed tensor cores.

and lol, outside of servers, apple's devices run on arm, albiet heavily customized, and the ipad pro's caught up to the xbox one S TWO whole YEARS ago in graphics performance, and apple literally JUSt announced that they are going to transition to thier own ARM based chips for macs. sure the price point is different but the point still stands, and with apple applyign boosters to ARM, the power disparity is getting lower fast and it will always have an advantage in power consumption.