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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nvidia Hiring For (Likely) Switch 2, DLSS 2.0 looks like a feature

Yeah a Switch Pro just wouldn't make much sense, Nintendo's audience don't care about graphics the way that the Playstation/Xbox audience do, and doing it to get more third party ports would be pointless as third parties aren't going to be bothered porting to a small fraction of the userbase, and again, AAA ports aren't what's selling the Switch anyway.

It wouldn't be worth their while, they're better off waiting another two years or so and releasing a full blown successor.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

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Soundwave said:

I don't think a "Switch Pro" is happening.

We're already into the second half of 2020 and there's no reliable murmurs on a Switch Pro at all, whereas for the Mariko model revisions we had a ton of chatter.

I think you'll maybe get a "New Switch" type revision with a larger screen for both the main line and Lite models (easy enough to eat into the dead bezel space), maybe even a further die shrink to 7nm or 8nm but a full on Pro like the PS4 Pro/XBX I don't think is happening.

If it was I think we'd have heard more about it. Nvidia recruiting for a chip that has next-generation graphics and DLSS 2.0 integration points much moreso to well a next generation Switch. DLSS requires completely different hardware that the current Switch simply doesn't even have to begin with (Tensor cores).

To make a new chip with Tensor cores would be expensive, it's not the like DSi and New 3DS where they basically just kept the same GPU and just overclocked the CPU and threw in some extra RAM. You can't do DLSS 2.0 with just more RAM and higher clocked CPUs ... even the PS5 and XSX can't do DLSS 2.0 in the same way Nvidia does. It requires Tensor cores. 

Besides that a Switch Pro "for third party games" in 2021 doesn't make a whole lot of sense as most 3rd parties are moving on to the PS5/XSX, the Switch would need a full next-generation architecture to be able to get any of those ports. 

In general I don't think a Switch Pro that is decently beefed up is going to happen a la Pro/X, but its more likely than "Switch 2 in 2022" some people on here are saying. Was just doing some wild speculation as people seemed to think this meant new hardware coming soonish when obviously Switch 2 is a long way off. Most likely this chip is for early R&D for a chip that'll be out in 2 years and in the Switch 2 in 3.5 to 4 years.

There will no doubt be a Switch Pro, but yeah whenever I say Pro or Plus or Premium or whatever related to Switch I don't mean a mid-gen hardware upgrade like Pro/X, I mean like what Nintendo always does which is make a better updated version to keep the highest price point high and get some early adopters to doulbe dip on the system. Larger screen, more storage, hopefully bluetooth, maybe a little bit more power to run games a tiny bit smoother or high res - to me those would be the main things a Premium Switch would get at.



curl-6 said:
Yeah a Switch Pro just wouldn't make much sense, Nintendo's audience don't care about graphics the way that the Playstation/Xbox audience do, and doing it to get more third party ports would be pointless as third parties aren't going to be bothered porting to a small fraction of the userbase, and again, AAA ports aren't what's selling the Switch anyway.

It wouldn't be worth their while, they're better off waiting another two years or so and releasing a full blown successor.

Well a successor is a lot more than two years off. Two years would be cutting the Switch off very early. Even 3 years would be cutting it off a bit early.

And um yes Nintendo's audience cares about graphics. I mean yeah you're right not in the way PSXbox audience does where they seem to take graphics as the most important thing sometimes, but just because its a handheld doesn't mean people don't want good graphics, good resolution, good fps. We just know its a handheld, so great graphics on the Switch are gonna be not quite as great as those on home systems. Also absolutely Nintendo audience care about third party games are you kidding. I'm sure a lot of the audience would love to have full good versions of AAA third party games on the system. The fact that those games barely ever make it to the system is not at all the same thing as not wanting them on the system. AAA ports don't sell the Switch because they don't (or barely) exist on the Switch and when they do they are either a generation old or degraded versions from more powerful hardware. First party is what sells the Switch because Nintendo is the only company that makes new AAA games for the system. Obviously if third parties actually built new AAA games for the Switch there would be a lot more interest. The main reason to not do a mid generation upgrade is because it'd split the userbase, because nobody wants that.

My suggestion was more if they did a mid gen upgrade to a bit more powerful version that could play current gen games decently without a lot of changes and graphical sacrifices needed, that would maybe get more developers taking the leap to port AAA games to Switch, but those games just wouldn't run great on the original Switch systems so they'd be better on the upgraded model but obviously they'd still have to run on the standard power systems, meaning there would be no split of userbase, but you just had to buy the upgrade if you wanted to get the best AAA experience.

Anyway, no doubt much more likely the Premium Switch whenever it comes out will be at best a slight power boost and then bigger screen and whatnot, like Nintendo always does with its upgrades. Late 2021 or early 2022 I think would be about right timing for another version, as that gives it at least a couple more years to sell before next gen.



Slownenberg said:
curl-6 said:
Yeah a Switch Pro just wouldn't make much sense, Nintendo's audience don't care about graphics the way that the Playstation/Xbox audience do, and doing it to get more third party ports would be pointless as third parties aren't going to be bothered porting to a small fraction of the userbase, and again, AAA ports aren't what's selling the Switch anyway.

It wouldn't be worth their while, they're better off waiting another two years or so and releasing a full blown successor.

Well a successor is a lot more than two years off. Two years would be cutting the Switch off very early. Even 3 years would be cutting it off a bit early.

And um yes Nintendo's audience cares about graphics. I mean yeah you're right not in the way PSXbox audience does where they seem to take graphics as the most important thing sometimes, but just because its a handheld doesn't mean people don't want good graphics, good resolution, good fps. We just know its a handheld, so great graphics on the Switch are gonna be not quite as great as those on home systems. Also absolutely Nintendo audience care about third party games are you kidding. I'm sure a lot of the audience would love to have full good versions of AAA third party games on the system. The fact that those games barely ever make it to the system is not at all the same thing as not wanting them on the system. AAA ports don't sell the Switch because they don't (or barely) exist on the Switch and when they do they are either a generation old or degraded versions from more powerful hardware. First party is what sells the Switch because Nintendo is the only company that makes new AAA games for the system. Obviously if third parties actually built new AAA games for the Switch there would be a lot more interest. The main reason to not do a mid generation upgrade is because it'd split the userbase, because nobody wants that.

My suggestion was more if they did a mid gen upgrade to a bit more powerful version that could play current gen games decently without a lot of changes and graphical sacrifices needed, that would maybe get more developers taking the leap to port AAA games to Switch, but those games just wouldn't run great on the original Switch systems so they'd be better on the upgraded model but obviously they'd still have to run on the standard power systems, meaning there would be no split of userbase, but you just had to buy the upgrade if you wanted to get the best AAA experience.

Anyway, no doubt much more likely the Premium Switch whenever it comes out will be at best a slight power boost and then bigger screen and whatnot, like Nintendo always does with its upgrades. Late 2021 or early 2022 I think would be about right timing for another version, as that gives it at least a couple more years to sell before next gen.

I didn't mean two years from now, but rather two years later than a hypotheical 2021/2022 Switch Pro.

And I didn't say AAA games don't or can't sell on Switch. I said they're not what's selling the hardware, not the primary reason people buy a Switch, as evidenced by Switch being one of the fastest selling systems in history despite having few AAA third party games.



Bet with Liquidlaser: I say PS5 and Xbox Series will sell more than 56 million combined by the end of 2023.

Slownenberg said:
Soundwave said:

I don't think a "Switch Pro" is happening.

We're already into the second half of 2020 and there's no reliable murmurs on a Switch Pro at all, whereas for the Mariko model revisions we had a ton of chatter.

I think you'll maybe get a "New Switch" type revision with a larger screen for both the main line and Lite models (easy enough to eat into the dead bezel space), maybe even a further die shrink to 7nm or 8nm but a full on Pro like the PS4 Pro/XBX I don't think is happening.

If it was I think we'd have heard more about it. Nvidia recruiting for a chip that has next-generation graphics and DLSS 2.0 integration points much moreso to well a next generation Switch. DLSS requires completely different hardware that the current Switch simply doesn't even have to begin with (Tensor cores).

To make a new chip with Tensor cores would be expensive, it's not the like DSi and New 3DS where they basically just kept the same GPU and just overclocked the CPU and threw in some extra RAM. You can't do DLSS 2.0 with just more RAM and higher clocked CPUs ... even the PS5 and XSX can't do DLSS 2.0 in the same way Nvidia does. It requires Tensor cores. 

Besides that a Switch Pro "for third party games" in 2021 doesn't make a whole lot of sense as most 3rd parties are moving on to the PS5/XSX, the Switch would need a full next-generation architecture to be able to get any of those ports. 

In general I don't think a Switch Pro that is decently beefed up is going to happen a la Pro/X, but its more likely than "Switch 2 in 2022" some people on here are saying. Was just doing some wild speculation as people seemed to think this meant new hardware coming soonish when obviously Switch 2 is a long way off. Most likely this chip is for early R&D for a chip that'll be out in 2 years and in the Switch 2 in 3.5 to 4 years.

There will no doubt be a Switch Pro, but yeah whenever I say Pro or Plus or Premium or whatever related to Switch I don't mean a mid-gen hardware upgrade like Pro/X, I mean like what Nintendo always does which is make a better updated version to keep the highest price point high and get some early adopters to doulbe dip on the system. Larger screen, more storage, hopefully bluetooth, maybe a little bit more power to run games a tiny bit smoother or high res - to me those would be the main things a Premium Switch would get at.

A Premium or Plus Switch model nothing to do with this job listing though, this is clearly for a next generation game console that utilizes DLSS 2.0 or better according to the listing. It says so right in the job listing. 

That's not going to be a "Switch with a bigger screen and Bluetooth", you don't hire a senior graphics engineer who specializes in A.I. neural processing and needs to work with DLSS 2.0 for that. 

DLSS 2.0 requires RTX Turing based architecture at minimum, Turing based architecture is basically the PS5/XBSX (RDNA 1.5/2) tier of architecture (better actually). They're not kidding around when the job description says "next generation graphics". 

My guess would be they are customizing a DLSS solution for Nintendo on the Switch 2 chip, something that might be able to reconstruct images from really, really low resolutions like 320x240 and move them up to 720p-1080p for example. That would make sense for a Switch successor (not so much a PC card) and they need more people trained in A.I. reconstruction to squeeze more out of the DLSS 2.0 standard they've set. Copying and pasting the existing DLSS 2.0 would massively benefit a Switch 2 to begin with, but if you can really crank it and focus on really low native resolutions, that would be extremely beneficial to Nintendo (especially in undocked modes). 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 30 July 2020

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shikamaru317 said:

(...)

A Q1 2023 Switch 2 at $300-350 should have something like 2.5-3 tflops GPU docked, (...)

Would already be too low in my opinion to be honest.

What I not only expect but demand from a switch two is to deliver the same performance or more than the rumored XBox Lockhart when docked,

and around halve undocked.

HOW it is done doesnt matter much to me, as long AS it is done.

This could also mean, that the hardware inside the switch two alone is not capable of doing so, but combined with suplementary hardware inside the dock

it would work. (Which would make the Switch 2 an actuall hybrid btw, unlike Switch 1)

With Lockhart, Nintendo has the unique chance of getting full 3rd party support (not just indies and medium japanese games)

despite having compearativly much weaker hardware. And Nintendo would be stupid to pass up on this upportunity.



Nintendo Switch:

... announced as a Home Console

... advertised as a Hybrid

... delivered as a Portable

GamingRabbit said:
shikamaru317 said:

(...)

A Q1 2023 Switch 2 at $300-350 should have something like 2.5-3 tflops GPU docked, (...)

Would already be too low in my opinion to be honest.

What I not only expect but demand from a switch two is to deliver the same performance or more than the rumored XBox Lockhart when docked,

and around halve undocked.

HOW it is done doesnt matter much to me, as long AS it is done.

The only way its coming close to this whilst having  battery life and actually having Switch form factor is through DLSS. So essentially the raw power of the Switch 2 would be closer to 1/3 docked, 1/6 undocked. But DLSS takes internally rendered frames from 240p-560p, and adjusts its up to 720p-1080p. For exclusives it will work natively from 1080p+ and upscale to 4k. 

Mobile tech will always be a generation behind in raw power, DLSS will cut a few years from this. Ultimately Nintendo will still be Nintendo, so the machine will at least break even at launch and not cost more than $399



shikamaru317 said:

I'm thinking it will release by Q1 2023 at the latest. R&D phase for a new console usually lasts like 3-4 years at the most, and Nvidia/Nintendo may have already been working on this for months or even a year before this job listing. 

Or, they may be starting development right now.  We have no idea.  It is also possible that this has nothing to do with Nintendo at all. There are always rumors of new entrants to the console business.  



GamingRabbit said:
shikamaru317 said:

(...)

A Q1 2023 Switch 2 at $300-350 should have something like 2.5-3 tflops GPU docked, (...)

Would already be too low in my opinion to be honest.

What I not only expect but demand from a switch two is to deliver the same performance or more than the rumored XBox Lockhart when docked,

and around halve undocked.

HOW it is done doesnt matter much to me, as long AS it is done.

This could also mean, that the hardware inside the switch two alone is not capable of doing so, but combined with suplementary hardware inside the dock

it would work. (Which would make the Switch 2 an actuall hybrid btw, unlike Switch 1)

With Lockhart, Nintendo has the unique chance of getting full 3rd party support (not just indies and medium japanese games)

despite having compearativly much weaker hardware. And Nintendo would be stupid to pass up on this upportunity.

I'd think it would take them another 1-1.5 years to get to be able to get that same 4 tflop as Lockhart for $300-350 in a handheld form factor (so 2024 or early 2025), and I doubt Nintendo wants to wait that long, the sooner they get Switch 2 out, the sooner they can start getting 3rd party multiplat support again. If the 4 tflop Lockhart is designed for playing next-gen games at 1080p as rumored, with the same graphical settings as Series X plays them at 4K, then I think that Switch 2 should be able to play those same games with the same graphical settings at 720p with 2.5-3 tflop, then DLSS them up to 1440p, which would look nearly the same as native 1440p. The only potential problem is that MS may start using the AMD version of DLSS that they are supposedly co-developing with AMD. 

Now Nintendo reviving their concept for the SCD, supplemental computing device, a dock with a 2nd Switch 2 chip inside of it that can work in conjuction with the first chip, that could happen I guess, but I kind of suspect that Nintendo never really managed to get their SCD concept to work the way they wanted it to, or else they would have release an SCD dock for Switch 1.

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 30 July 2020

curl-6 said:
JRPGfan said:

Probably been in developement for along while, this is likely just to help get it accross the finish line earlier.
Hire more people.

It's not in Nintendo's interest to release Switch 2 any time soon anyway, so there's no need to rush.

It all depends on how seemless the delivery is. Due to DLSS, they could technically release the games on both consoles without a problem.

So, it is completely in their interest to upgrade this way, since everything is pointing to this. We went over it in depth in my past thread.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242353/switch-a-multi-wave-console-lifecycle-prediction/2/#83

Also, the spiritual successor to Suikoden shows why this move is much more important than you might think.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9190453