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Forums - Sales Discussion - Famitsu Sales: Week 22, 2020 (May 25 - May 31)

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noshten said:

In terms of Capcom, like I said it worked out for Monster Hunter World. But we are still to see it work out consecutively, which is more important for the long term longevity of this strategy.  For example, if the sequel isn't able to sell as well WW, it could spell trouble for the company.

Let's say MHW 2 is a cross-gen time-exclusive on the PS4/PS5 it's pretty unlikely it would do better in Japan than Monster Hunter World. This is why the strategy is risky because Western audiences might have moved on to something different since MH isn't a staple in the West. 

The bigger question is the rest of their franchises. Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Street Fighter, Dragon Dogma, Ace Attorney so far are just getting old ports to the Switch. This is the bigger omission since outside of Resident Evil most of these games are struggling to reach 5M worldwide, so any additional sales would have been welcomed. 

Koei Tecmo's main issue is that "Warriors" games have been declining for years now. Their alternative Nioh has not been ported to the Switch and neither has Dynasty Warriors 9. Overall they are in a particular position because in the past most of their portable output was on PSV and not on 3DS. I'd say they are doing their best to move everything on the Switch. But they really need to think about new IPs with different formulas Warriors games might be cheap to make but so far we haven't really seen them popular enough to even break 200K on the Switch in Japan.

Hyrule Warriors on the Wii U/3DS/Switch remains their best selling game on a Nintendo system with its three versions totalling to 288.033. 

While Atelier is the only franchise which has seen growth in the last few years from Koei Tecmo's perspective with it being a simultaneous launch on the PS4/Switch it sold over 400K World Wide. 

PS3 TOP 5

  1. Fist of the North Star: Ken's Rage - 591.422
  2. Dynasty Warriors 7 - 478.939
  3. Samurai Warriors 3: Empires - 457.249
  4. Dynasty Warriors 8 - 420.729
  5. Dynasty Warriors 6- 416.288

TOTAL: 2.364.627

PSV TOP 5

  1. Toukiden: The Age of Demons - 237.361
  2. Toukiden: Kiwami - 161.059
  3. Attack on Titan: Wings of Freedom - 117.755
  4. Toukiden 2 - 108.249
  5. Samurai Warriors 4 - 91.107

TOTAL: 715.531

PS4 TOP 5

  1. Dynasty Warriors 9 - 176.870
  2. Nioh - 170.812
  3. Nioh 2 - 156.772
  4. Warriors Orochi 4 - 156.083
  5. Attack on Titan: Wings of Freedom - 101.287

TOTAL: 761.824

3DS TOP 5

  1. Samurai Warriors: Chronicles - 155.059
  2. Hyrule Warriors: Legends - 107.312
  3. Samurai Warriors: Chronicles 2nd - 85.395
  4. Dead or Alive: Dimensions - 58.743
  5. Dynasty Warriors Vs. - 48.425

TOTAL: 454.934

Switch TOP 5

  1. Attack on Titan 2 - 80.471
  2. Fire Emblem Warriors - 64.747
  3. Hyrule Warriors: Definitive Edition - 54.021
  4. Attack on Titan 2: Final Battle - 48.904
  5. Warriors Orochi 4 - 47.608

TOTAL: 295.751

Capcom is definitely on thin ice, since they used up all of their remasters I think. We can hope they get their act together and create some new games like they did with the MH franchise and Dragon's Dogma.

Koei Tecmo is fine since they have so many deals with other companies. Nioh is clearly the Sony PS thing, Fire Emblem Three houses on Switch for Nintendo did great, Dragon Quest Heroes for SE was great, One Piece Pirate Warriors for Namco Bandai etc. I wonder what their next collaboration will be.



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Farsala said:

The 3 multiplatforms did not cost nearly as much as 3 single platform PS4 exclusives would, so in reality it is quite cheap to port it to systems with similar specs and architecture. WW the 3DS games did not pass 4.3m. Without counting Iceborne, MHW sold 15.7m a 3.65 multiplier of the highest 3DS entry. With Iceborne it is 20.9m, a 4.86 multiplier.

It really isn't comparable.

You're wrong there as WW Generations sold 4.3m and MH4U sold 4.2m, the development of a HD game is well above that of a 3DS game not to mention you're missing the point you're saying it sold more WW yet ignored that it's on 3 platforms yet if you breakdown sales on each platform 3DS matches the sales of each platform if you add the sales of XX/Ultimate to Generations (which Capcom confirmed to be 3m with 1.8m of that on 3DS according to VGC) like you did with Iceborne to MHW that would put it 6.3m units.

Iceborne according to Capcom sold 5m and that's across 3 platforms meaning as far as platform performance goes MHW didn't really perform better WW than it did on 3DS it just did the same on more platforms so it's very much comparable.



Wyrdness said:
Farsala said:

The 3 multiplatforms did not cost nearly as much as 3 single platform PS4 exclusives would, so in reality it is quite cheap to port it to systems with similar specs and architecture. WW the 3DS games did not pass 4.3m. Without counting Iceborne, MHW sold 15.7m a 3.65 multiplier of the highest 3DS entry. With Iceborne it is 20.9m, a 4.86 multiplier.

It really isn't comparable.

You're wrong there as WW Generations sold 4.3m and MH4U sold 4.2m, the development of a HD game is well above that of a 3DS game not to mention you're missing the point you're saying it sold more WW yet ignored that it's on 3 platforms yet if you breakdown sales on each platform 3DS matches the sales of each platform if you add the sales of XX/Ultimate to Generations (which Capcom confirmed to be 3m with 1.8m of that on 3DS according to VGC) like you did with Iceborne to MHW that would put it 6.3m units.

Iceborne according to Capcom sold 5m and that's across 3 platforms meaning as far as platform performance goes MHW didn't really perform better WW than it did on 3DS it just did the same on more platforms so it's very much comparable.

Again 3 platforms does not mean 3x the cost. An HD game is definitely more expensive than 3DS, but 3DS games bring less profit per unit sale.

But even using your 6.3m it is a 3.3 multiplier. With Iceborne definitely still selling, even in the top 30 in famitsu, the multiplier will only increase.



I wouldn't say Koei Tecmo is fine in Japan. They've lost a lot of ground moving their output during the transition from PS3/PSV to PS4, haven't really released a game on the Switch that even surpassed 100K. They are set to release a Fairy Tail Game by Gust which will release right before the summer holidays and is set to be on all platforms. Outside of that, we have no announcements from them for the rest of the year, although it's expected they will announce a 20-year anniversary game in the Warriors franchise. 

I'm interested in how a Fairy Tail JRPG does, I guess surpassing 200K on the Switch/PS4 would be my barometer for success for Japan.  

Last edited by noshten - on 08 June 2020

Farsala said:

Again 3 platforms does not mean 3x the cost. An HD game is definitely more expensive than 3DS, but 3DS games bring less profit per unit sale.

But even using your 6.3m it is a 3.3 multiplier. With Iceborne definitely still selling, even in the top 30 in famitsu, the multiplier will only increase.

Are you not reading the post as 3x the cost was never said that's something you came up with by yourself I pointed out the are more platforms meaning more userbases to sell to so obviously the would be more sales otherwise it would be a disaster, HD development is way more than 3DS games that's the point 3DS had assets that were being reused for ages before even the platform was around and development was HD so Capcom saved a tonne of costs with the games which makes up for the lower price.

Even your multiplier argument has flaws as you're comparing performance on 3 platforms to one, if each platform has 5m sales if we compared sales performance 3DS performed the same as any of the said platforms as with Iceborne and XX/Ultimate that would be 6m on every platform.



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noshten said:

I wouldn't say Koei Tecmo is fine in Japan. They've lost a lot of ground moving their output during the transition from PS3/PSV to PS4, haven't really released a game on the Switch that even surpassed 100K. They are set to release a Fairy Tail Game by Gust which will release right before the summer holidays and is set to be on all platforms. Outside of that, we have no announcements from them for the rest of the year, although it's expected they will announce a 20-year anniversary game in the Warriors franchise. 

I'm interested in how a Fairy Tail JRPG does, I guess surpassing 200K on the Switch/PS4 would be my barometer for success for Japan.  

You aren't getting it at all. Of course they lost a lot of ground for published sales, they are using a lot of their resources for other companies published games. Many Koei Tecmo developed games are already higher than their #1 published game on Switch.

Wyrdness said:
Farsala said:

Again 3 platforms does not mean 3x the cost. An HD game is definitely more expensive than 3DS, but 3DS games bring less profit per unit sale.

But even using your 6.3m it is a 3.3 multiplier. With Iceborne definitely still selling, even in the top 30 in famitsu, the multiplier will only increase.

Are you not reading the post as 3x the cost was never said that's something you came up with by yourself I pointed out the are more platforms meaning more userbases to sell to so obviously the would be more sales otherwise it would be a disaster, HD development is way more than 3DS games that's the point 3DS had assets that were being reused for ages before even the platform was around and development was HD so Capcom saved a tonne of costs with the games which makes up for the lower price.

Even your multiplier argument has flaws as you're comparing performance on 3 platforms to one, if each platform has 5m sales if we compared sales performance 3DS performed the same as any of the said platforms as with Iceborne and XX/Ultimate that would be 6m on every platform.

I am tired and don't feel like making any more posts, so I may disagree with your response.

But the point is that you are acting like 1 3ds sale is = to 1 ported console sale. Main platform certainly cost the most, but the ported console sales are much cheaper and therefore much more profitable than a main console sale like the 3DS/PS4. So while a 3DS/ PS4 sales might be 1:1 because of the dev cost vs price of game/DLC, a ported sale is pretty much pure profit after 100k or so and much more worth.



Farsala said:

I am tired and don't feel like making any more posts, so I may disagree with your response.

But the point is that you are acting like 1 3ds sale is = to 1 ported console sale. Main platform certainly cost the most, but the ported console sales are much cheaper and therefore much more profitable than a main console sale like the 3DS/PS4. So while a 3DS/ PS4 sales might be 1:1 because of the dev cost vs price of game/DLC, a ported sale is pretty much pure profit after 100k or so and much more worth.

Again read what you're replying to not what you assume is being said it's like you're looking at a few words and not reading anything else at all, you said WW MHW had sold more which I pointed out it's on more platforms, you said that it's sold at a higher price which I pointed out HD development is higher and even then you were talking about in Japan where the 3DS games moved over 1m more than MHW, no one is acting like anything all of that is your own assumption.

When compared with a breakdown of 15m plus Iceborne across 3 platforms the 6.3m of 3DS is in line with what MHW sold on each platform WWs, your whole argument is comparing 3 userbases to 1 the game should be selling more in total in that scenario yet the actual performance in total units moved per platform WW didn't really change MHW just did the same on more platforms.



Wyrdness said:
Farsala said:

I am tired and don't feel like making any more posts, so I may disagree with your response.

But the point is that you are acting like 1 3ds sale is = to 1 ported console sale. Main platform certainly cost the most, but the ported console sales are much cheaper and therefore much more profitable than a main console sale like the 3DS/PS4. So while a 3DS/ PS4 sales might be 1:1 because of the dev cost vs price of game/DLC, a ported sale is pretty much pure profit after 100k or so and much more worth.

Again read what you're replying to not what you assume is being said it's like you're looking at a few words and not reading anything else at all, you said WW MHW had sold more which I pointed out it's on more platforms, you said that it's sold at a higher price which I pointed out HD development is higher and even then you were talking about in Japan where the 3DS games moved over 1m more than MHW, no one is acting like anything all of that is your own assumption.

When compared with a breakdown of 15m plus Iceborne across 3 platforms the 6.3m of 3DS is in line with what MHW sold on each platform WWs, your whole argument is comparing 3 userbases to 1 the game should be selling more in total in that scenario yet the actual performance in total units moved per platform WW didn't really change MHW just did the same on more platforms.

I thought that argument was already set to rest.

20.9/3 is ~7m > 6.3m.

And it is still selling.



Farsala said:

I thought that argument was already set to rest.

20.9/3 is ~7m > 6.3m.

And it is still selling.

Are you reading what you're replying to? Because your replies aren't making sense in any context to what is being said.



Wyrdness said:
Farsala said:

I thought that argument was already set to rest.

20.9/3 is ~7m > 6.3m.

And it is still selling.

Are you reading what you're replying to? Because your replies aren't making sense in any context to what is being said.

"When compared with a breakdown of 15m plus Iceborne across 3 platforms the 6.3m of 3DS is in line with what MHW sold on each platform"

It is not.