The smart thing would've been to play it safe, within reason. Asking everyone to wear masks right away would've been a minor ask initially, even if they ended up finding out they were 100% useless. Some would've complained later, but not many, because for what really? Same with social distancing. As long as it didn't take them far too much time to come up with reliable test results anyway.

When the people already don't trust the Gov, the bigger the misstep, the bigger the perceived problem. Even worse, when the people and the Gov are divided, and the leadership won't unify, how do you expect the 'sheep' to?

Ya I realize there are exceptions. Every country, democratic and free or not, does things a little differently. I think you get the point in general though. There used to be conscription in some places, there also used to be little done to stop the spread of worrisome illnesses at times.

With most things, if you screw up initially, you're screwed entirely. The worse you initially screw up, the worse the outcome will eventually be, sooner or later. Especially with the instant widespread communication of today. Western Gov's and CDPR are on the same page, and that's not a good thing. Life isn't a game.

The initial problem was also trust. There was a shortage of masks, first responders needed them, yet confiscating shipments and forcing factories to produce for the government only is another thing we can't do here. We can't stop scalpers either, hoarding was a big problem at the start and was more dangerous than the pandemic itself.

At first it was widely believed that the main path of transmission was from surfaces and touching people. That the main pathway is through the air took a long time to be recognized and still isn't really. A reason why I don't trust the back to school stuff, lack of ventilation measures. But when you believe the virus transmits through surfaces and touch, whole social distancing doesn't make much sense.

It's the world we live in nowadays. The government doesn't trust the people and vice versa. Both continually show they can't be trusted. I don't know the answer to that. Initial screw ups are unavoidable with a new unknown disease (unlike making a game) and the biggest problem was not trusting the Chinese data and recommendations. It took way too long to figure out how much more vulnerable older people are and many were sentenced to death by closing schools in Italy, getting the grandparents to take care of the kids while the parents continued working. Here it exposed the shortcomings of our elderly homes, although shortcomings is an understatement.

It's been almost a year now. Currently we do have a good grasp on what works and what doesn't. Yet how do you convince people? My sister still believes masks are completely pointless, since numbers went up in the Netherlands despite people using masks.

Perhaps it's the result of poor education standards. How much did you get here in school about probabilities, exponential spread, growth factors, pandemics, etc. We did get the math part in school but never in relation to biology and pandemics. In biology we did look at bacterial growth but not at viral spread. R0, never heard of that before this all started. In history we did learn about the Black plague and Spanish flu. But nothing connected all the dots, all separate things, taught in different years.

(Btw the online schooling is a joke, it just teaches my kids to let the computer do the work for them. My wife caught our 9 year old copy pasting text he was supposed to read into a text to speech thingie from windows, let the computer read it to him. Then dictate his summary to one note instead of writing or simply copy paste parts. Crafty buggers)

Holy Shit, we went from 231k to 403k in one day.....Holy Fuck !!!

People just cant take this anymore and are fed up with the misinformation and half truths. Its anecdotal but my impression and others around me that people just cant take this anymore and are not taking care anymore. Lockdowns just became useless. The government cant arrest millions of people. Numbers will jut go up, at least for infections. Just wait till post christmas numbers.

Dr. Hope on Christmas in the Pandemic. He is in the UK, but I think it is applicable to many other countries as well, that are currently in a similar situation (a new wave of infections).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZaY65i0Pd8&ab_channel=DrHope%27sSickNotes

4-years-old video. The topic of debt forgiveness isn't new, the fact that there is no real push to make it happen during this pandemic is insanity, it's not even a discussed topic in a national or international stage. 

I don't blame anyone for having a fuck all attitude. From being lied to about masks at the beginning of the pandemic to continuously asking people to do things and get nothing in return but the promise of temporary lifting of restrictions. Erm, hello?

I have personally grown richer during this pandemic but one can't ignore the fact that big businesses are being looked after and the common man is asked to obey and get blamed for everything by someone as obnoxious and ugly as Fauci. 

About the video:

Seems like a classic apples vs. oranges comparison.

Whatever was set up for the movie crew has nothing to do with her bar or that her outdoor section is "dangerous".

There are two things to keep in mind:

1. A lot more people would visit her bar compared to a fixed movie crew. She would also serve lots of different guests each day whereas the movie crew consists of pretty much always the same people. Much more potential to spread the virus.

2. Her place is purely for leisure. The more places like that are open, the more people will crowd the streets and use public transportation in order to get to those places, thus increasing the spread.

Should she get financial aid from the city, state, federal gov? Depending on the length of the lock down, certainly. Can she get something? Idk I can't keep up with everything.

Not really sure what you're trying to tell me. Kind of sick of responses that take pieces of my general point and go "AHA, YOU'RE WRONG HERE". and? 

But even then:

1. I think at this point it's clear that any gathering can turn into a superspreading event, the movie crew will go home to their families and visit their friends and transmissible cycle won't be as small as you make it out to be. 

2. Her place is for leisure and the movie crew is saving lives? 

and I agree it's apple vs oranges comparison, but the point wasn't to validate her claims or invalidate them anyway. There is an argument to be made that not enough is being done worldwide to stop the virus, you need drastic measures and restrictions free stimuli to be able to fairy ask people to stay home. Otherwise, big businesses will go grow bigger and the majority will go poorer and the fuck all attitude will continue to be as mainstream as it is now. 

I wonder how it will go next week. It just came out that everyone has to stay home from the 24th, basically Christmas is cancelled.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-will-enter-province-wide-lockdown-as-of-christmas-eve-sources-say-1.5239437

These sources, who have direct knowledge of the situation, say the lockdown will begin at 12:01 a.m. on Dec. 24 and will last for 28 days in the southern portions of the province and 14 days in the northern parts.

This lockdown will look similar to the province-wide shutdown back in March, with only essential businesses being allowed to remain open.

The sources say this decision was made based off COVID-19 modelling data. The data has shown that under any scenario, Ontario will see 300 people in intensive care by the end of December. At the current rate of transmission, that number would grow to 700 patients by the end of January.

The province has said that once the number of COVID-19 patients in Ontario’s intensive care units (ICU) surpasses 300 supporting other medical needs not related to the disease becomes nearly impossible. There are currently 261 patients infected with the disease in ICUs across the province.

So basically they did F all to increase capacity, 300 ICU beds is the limit for nearly 15 million population in Ontario.


I hope they get our roof finished before Thursday. It would suck if that gets cut off since by the end of the lock down we'll be in the middle of winter. They were working on it today, aiming to be done on Tuesday if the weather cooperates.

Don't be so defensive. I addressed the points the woman made in the video, not anything you wrote.

That's why I wrote "about the video".

1. An infected movie crew member is still far better than an infected random dude at a bar. The infected person can be traced sooner, for example due to regular testing arranged by the employer or just by calling in sick which would probably be the point where the employer would send that person to get tested. Also it's a lot faster to contact the people the infected was in contact with.

2. Another case of apples vs. oranges. The movie crew is working. So is the bar owner, but the bar has guests whereas the movie crew doesn't. The proper comparison would be between the bar owner and the owner of an open air cinema.