No offense, but what you're doing seems to be more putting up as much smoke as possible to obscure what's actually not complicated at all.

Except the NZ/Australian freedoms are deeper and for everyone including for the old and health compromised, everyone is safer in this form of universal freedom, these countries truly believe the idea that with freedom comes responsibility, and it shows in practice to work beautifully 

No offence taken. I'm not a pyro and don't smoke. Makes life less complicated.

"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin disagrees.

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but do we know that? My understanding is that we only know the currently approved vaccines (eventually) teach your body how to combat the virus' spike protein; no one knows whether it'll cut down on asymptomatic spreading, and the two approved vaccines are using a method never used before. AstraZeneca says their data shows a decrease in transmission for their own vaccine, but their results are (apparently) screwed up, so no one really has a clue how reliable their data is.

Corona-virus will never be cured as long as authoritarians can use it to control the population

Your understanding is correct. Not sure why vivster thinks otherwise when the German news keeps repeating this same thing ad nauseum.

Of course you're getting frustrated when all you think about is nonsense.

There are more people dying from this virus than ever and you think we're doing fine and those measures aren't necessary? Just because the news has fatigued and isn't talking about it as dramatically anymore doesn't mean it's over. It's as bad as ever and the only reason why nothing has collapsed yet is

1. The measures you're so tired of are working!

2. The health sector has massively expanded capacity.

We're burying more people than ever, we just got more efficient at it. To say that we're doing fine is a fucking joke. It's winter now and it's going to get a lot worse, because a virus like that spreads like crazy in that season.

Yes, we're learning more and more about the virus. For example how even in asymptomatic or mild cases it can do lasting damage to the body. I'm not gonna stop social distancing and wearing a mask just because there is "only" a 0.1% chance for me to die or fuck up my body long term. I like living and I like being healthy, sorry if that is an inconvenience to you.

NZ has done a much better job than the vast majority of other countries, that's a fact, their cases have been in the single digits for two months, and most of those in managed isolation, not in the community, how many countries can claim that? They effectively have beaten it.

The expert consensus is that masks help, and even if they only partially helped, you'd be crazy to avoid such a tiny inconvenience when there's a chance it could save lives.

Well, then just stay home. Forever.

I'm going to need some kind of proof that driving accidents are as contagious as a respiratory disease that has caused a pandemic and killed 316,000 people in America alone in just 9 months. 

Trump did say it, because some of the Dems and media were saying it and it was being used against him as if he didn't care because he wasn't saying it. Usually he goes against their slogan's, but because it's true and he also agrees it made sense to use it.

Can't honestly answer that because I don't trust the numbers. When it's been shown that this year the total deaths are in line with what's been normal for the last decade, even though it should be much higher because of covid, I can't help but wonder. Especially when it get's blocked and taken down soon after.

Things like the amount of cold and flu deaths being lower, which isn't a surprise, because if covid is worse then odds are high that some of those people are going to die from covid instead. In which case, if statistically a certain amount in general die every year from the cold and flu, and some of them died of covid instead, why is that being added to the death count, or blamed on anyone else? If they were unfortunately going to pass from one of those illnesses, due to underlying conditions or whatever, why is that someone else's fault? We never say anything about it otherwise.

I will say it's not just about how many. Who matters just as much. There are certain age ranges that are more important to keep healthy in a more hostile outbreak. Gender would also come into play if that ever was a target and the illness was bad enough.

"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin disagrees.

 I think what really helps is that they just hard closed their borders. And somehow they were not being attacked for it.

I remember the first thing I thought when the pandemic started was "just close the borders!!!". In UK that never really happened and it was just sad, when Italy was in the middle of a chaos there were daily flights arriving here from Italy, people even filmed them entering the country by Heathrow and not even being asked questions.

Later on before the second wave things were getting better then a lot of people flew to other countries for vacation and then when they came back the rate of infection increased again.

NZ did the right thing, ignored those complaining about closing the borders and the political impact of it and now they just beat it. But just try to open borders again and you will see that it will come back. It is a nasty virus.

Out of context, yet if you want to apply it to this situation it becomes

"Those who temporarily give up a little freedom, purchase long lasting safety"

You have a point there, one of the reasons we can't get rid of it. NZ doesn't have truck drivers that cross the border on a daily basis nor people working cross border as a daily commute, nor Americans traveling through the country to get to Alaska or their second homes or business.

Canadians do the same thing, heck even now people are going to Florida for the winter. You can't stop your own population from leaving and you can't deny them re-entry. Plus we won't put incoming people in quarantine hotels, we just tell to them to self isolate for a few weeks and hopefully they listen.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-u-s-border-travel-covid-19-1.5843872

In late March, Canada closed its borders to foreigners visiting for non-essential reasons. Since then, there have been more than seven million entries into the country by land or air by Canadians and foreigners.

Vinette said truck drivers account for the largest group of people entering Canada during the pandemic, making up about half of the total entries so far.

The second-biggest group is individuals who live in border towns and have jobs on the opposite side of the border, he said.

Both groups are exempt from Canada's 14-day quarantine requirement — which was designed to help stop the spread of COVID-19.

The virus will keep coming in. It seems to be impossible to hand trucks off at the border so drivers don't cross borders, only the trailers. Plus making arrangements for those working cross border is too complicated as well, while nurses etc have to live away from home as a precaution...

Of course we can still do much more to limit community spread, yet people need to live (have fun) and (short term) money is more important in the end. It could be worse, it's just a bit over 100 deaths per day...