Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony always improves Nintendo's innovations

darthdevidem01 said:
CGI-Quality said:
Jumpin said:
Sony also always takes Nintendo's profitable ideas, and somehow figures out a way to copy it and lose billions on it.

Any examples?


I'm scratching my head n my dogs ears at the same time, I have no clue what that post was about.

The Cell processor wasn't ninty's idea, blu ray wasn't (the major reasons for PS3's billions losses).....before PS3 both PS2/PS1 were profitable, maybe a bit less as SONY sold them at a loss (but that wasn't copied)

Indeed, which is why I don't expect any examples. Figured he may have attempted to give it a go though.



                                                                                                             

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ninty_shareholder64 said:
Doobie_wop said:
Nintendo are probably the least innovative manufacturer in the biz, Sony copies Nintendo's copied concepts, it's like stealing from a thief. Outside of maybe the rumble and the two screens on the DS, they haven't done that much. Now Sega is a whole different story, they've pretty much had a hand in nearly everything.

Sony works on old concepts and makes them better, every improvised concept they've done has basically become an industry standard (dual analogue, built in rumble, BC in consoles, optical media). This thread is an innocent one, but claiming Nintendo is innovative only means that you don't know to much about gaming history. I don't like when credit is given to undeserving companies, people could at leas be a little bit respectful towards the real creators of analogue sticks, touch screen gaming, 3D plat-forming, side scrolling plat-formers and console motion controls and not just throw all the praise on Nintendo just because they had the marketing budget to make the concepts well known.

The process of creating something new is always a long way. There are very many different people and/or companies involved. Of course analogue control, rumble, motion-controls etc. were invented before Ninty used it for their current console. Nevertheless, it was Ninty that invented these features as console-specific features, so of course Ninty innovates.

Do you think optical media, built in rumble etc. was invented from the very beginning from Sony? min 3 of your 4 arguments are rediculous, imo. dual analogue after Ninty built N64 controler, built in rumble after Ninty introduced it and optical media, you know the Saturn right?

So every company adds something new in the end. And i agree with the conclusion that Ninty introduced many things on the console market and Sony makes them better . There's never given credit to the basic researchers, i doubt you know any of them.

Don't forget, without Ninty Sony most probably wouldn't be part of the gaming market at all.

All the inovations I mentioned were console specific features at some point, features that Nintendo copied, improved upon and pushed into the mainstream. I wrote a long post on it a while back, I had a point to prove and I spent about two hours researching the history of these features and what I found is that Nintendo isn't as innovative as people make out, it's just that they take their ideas from smaller companies and then market the hell out of them, making it seem as if it's a feature that is related specifically to them.

I said that Sony took old ideas and improved upon them, I didn't say they invented them, they did exactly what Nintendo did, the difference is that people don't give credit to Sony for those inventions, but they do give credit to Nintendo for their improvisions when they should be crediting the original creators. 

I could re-write the report and re-research everything on the topic, but I don't have the time or the patience to re-exaplain these things to overly sensitive Nintendo fans. I'll just add a few points:

- Donkey Kong copied Space Panic as a platformer game. Nintendo did not invent platform games.

- Sidescrolling platforming Mario was copied from Pitfall!! and Jump Bug. Nintendo did not invent sidescrolling platform games.

- The Game.com was the first touch screen gaming handheld. Nintendo did not invent touch screen gaming.

- Motion controls were first introduced on consoles by Sega with Samba di Amigo and the Sega Activator, before them it was something frequently used in the Arcades. Nintendo did not invent motion controls and were not the first to bring it to consoles.

- The first 3D platforming game was not Mario 64, it was Alpha Waves on the PC, the first on console was released on the PS1 and it was called Jumping Flash. Nintendo did not invent 3D platforming on consoles.

- The Vectrex was the first console to use an analogue stick. Nintendo did not invent the analogue stick.

- The first force feedback controllers were found on the PC, Nintendo popularized it on the console, but they didn't invent it.

I could list more, but I haven't got the time. Nintendo are as original as Lady Gaga in a steak costume, meaning that they aren't original at all, they just like to pretend that they are and the ignorant press and the overly obssessed Nintendo userbase just gobble it all up and treat it as truth. If you want to praise an innovate company, then praise Sega, despite their downfall, they've done more for new ideas in games than any other company on the market.



Bet with Conegamer and AussieGecko that the PS3 will have more exclusives in 2011 than the Wii or 360... or something.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3879752

Rath said:
I'm going to find it hilarious if they do what they did with the motion control. Y'know, claim it's a gimmick for years and then release their own version.


You missed out the part when they do introduce the replica, they'll pretend like it's never been used before in the industry and that it's so intuitive and innovative.



I think I mostly agree with the OP statement. Sony has done a great job improving some of Nintendo's innovations and that's not necesarily bad. Now that I'm enjoying Little Big Planet I get to constantly think how great they did to purchase the game developers and to own the IP. The series are well known for its collaborative aspects, which gives them an innovative edge, of course, but I think the real genious is having provided all of us a game with that vibe that usually is exclusive to Nintendo titles. Funny thing is that you could say that Nintendo acknoledge this by giving Kirby's Epic Yarn a beautiful art concept which, yet Nintendo's aesthetic kind of game, refered us gamers to LBP. I will call Nintendo a winner if they Sony Sony and improve the collaborative aspects in a platform game in the near future.



Doobie_wop said:
ninty_shareholder64 said:
Doobie_wop said:
Nintendo are probably the least innovative manufacturer in the biz, Sony copies Nintendo's copied concepts, it's like stealing from a thief. Outside of maybe the rumble and the two screens on the DS, they haven't done that much. Now Sega is a whole different story, they've pretty much had a hand in nearly everything.

Sony works on old concepts and makes them better, every improvised concept they've done has basically become an industry standard (dual analogue, built in rumble, BC in consoles, optical media). This thread is an innocent one, but claiming Nintendo is innovative only means that you don't know to much about gaming history. I don't like when credit is given to undeserving companies, people could at leas be a little bit respectful towards the real creators of analogue sticks, touch screen gaming, 3D plat-forming, side scrolling plat-formers and console motion controls and not just throw all the praise on Nintendo just because they had the marketing budget to make the concepts well known.

The process of creating something new is always a long way. There are very many different people and/or companies involved. Of course analogue control, rumble, motion-controls etc. were invented before Ninty used it for their current console. Nevertheless, it was Ninty that invented these features as console-specific features, so of course Ninty innovates.

Do you think optical media, built in rumble etc. was invented from the very beginning from Sony? min 3 of your 4 arguments are rediculous, imo. dual analogue after Ninty built N64 controler, built in rumble after Ninty introduced it and optical media, you know the Saturn right?

So every company adds something new in the end. And i agree with the conclusion that Ninty introduced many things on the console market and Sony makes them better . There's never given credit to the basic researchers, i doubt you know any of them.

Don't forget, without Ninty Sony most probably wouldn't be part of the gaming market at all.

All the inovations I mentioned were console specific features at some point, features that Nintendo copied, improved upon and pushed into the mainstream. I wrote a long post on it a while back, I had a point to prove and I spent about two hours researching the history of these features and what I found is that Nintendo isn't as innovative as people make out, it's just that they take their ideas from smaller companies and then market the hell out of them, making it seem as if it's a feature that is related specifically to them.

I said that Sony took old ideas and improved upon them, I didn't say they invented them, they did exactly what Nintendo did, the difference is that people don't give credit to Sony for those inventions, but they do give credit to Nintendo for their improvisions when they should be crediting the original creators. 

I could re-write the report and re-research everything on the topic, but I don't have the time or the patience to re-exaplain these things to overly sensitive Nintendo fans. I'll just add a few points:

- Donkey Kong copied Space Panic as a platformer game. Nintendo did not invent platform games.

- Sidescrolling platforming Mario was copied from Pitfall!! and Jump Bug. Nintendo did not invent sidescrolling platform games.

- The Game.com was the first touch screen gaming handheld. Nintendo did not invent touch screen gaming.

- Motion controls were first introduced on consoles by Sega with Samba di Amigo and the Sega Activator, before them it was something frequently used in the Arcades. Nintendo did not invent motion controls and were not the first to bring it to consoles.

- The first 3D platforming game was not Mario 64, it was Alpha Waves on the PC, the first on console was released on the PS1 and it was called Jumping Flash. Nintendo did not invent 3D platforming on consoles.

- The Vectrex was the first console to use an analogue stick. Nintendo did not invent the analogue stick.

- The first force feedback controllers were found on the PC, Nintendo popularized it on the console, but they didn't invent it.

I could list more, but I haven't got the time. Nintendo are as original as Lady Gaga in a steak costume, meaning that they aren't original at all, they just like to pretend that they are and the ignorant press and the overly obssessed Nintendo userbase just gobble it all up and treat it as truth. If you want to praise an innovate company, then praise Sega, despite their downfall, they've done more for new ideas in games than any other company on the market.

Good post.  I did make sure, in my earlier post, to state that Nintendo doesn't usually invent these new technologies (often times, it was a third party peripheral that did it first--ie the power glove or something) but Nintendo does seem to be the first to take the risk and say, "Okay.  This is what our console is going to be about."  They based their whole console on things like analog or motion controls or two screens (ie: Game and Watch).  I guess Nintendo is good at deciding when "the time is right" for these fledgeling technologies to become mainstream.

One of my very first posts on VGChartz was about this very same subject.  I said something along the lines of:  I could say I created the flying car and drive it off of a cliff.  It could fly for five seconds before sending me to my doom.  Nintendo could come along and make a flying car that actually works.  Yeah, I created the flying car but Nintendo got it right.  Then, Sony would come in and make a flying car and add air conditioning or something.

The things you mentioned before, Nintendo didn't do first.  But Nintendo got them right....and Sony got them "right-er".

Oh, and Game Informer did an article on who did what first a couple of months ago.  Could have saved you a lot of research!



mZuzek loves to pre-order

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d21lewis said:
Doobie_wop said:
ninty_shareholder64 said:
Doobie_wop said:
Nintendo are probably the least innovative manufacturer in the biz, Sony copies Nintendo's copied concepts, it's like stealing from a thief. Outside of maybe the rumble and the two screens on the DS, they haven't done that much. Now Sega is a whole different story, they've pretty much had a hand in nearly everything.

Sony works on old concepts and makes them better, every improvised concept they've done has basically become an industry standard (dual analogue, built in rumble, BC in consoles, optical media). This thread is an innocent one, but claiming Nintendo is innovative only means that you don't know to much about gaming history. I don't like when credit is given to undeserving companies, people could at leas be a little bit respectful towards the real creators of analogue sticks, touch screen gaming, 3D plat-forming, side scrolling plat-formers and console motion controls and not just throw all the praise on Nintendo just because they had the marketing budget to make the concepts well known.

The process of creating something new is always a long way. There are very many different people and/or companies involved. Of course analogue control, rumble, motion-controls etc. were invented before Ninty used it for their current console. Nevertheless, it was Ninty that invented these features as console-specific features, so of course Ninty innovates.

Do you think optical media, built in rumble etc. was invented from the very beginning from Sony? min 3 of your 4 arguments are rediculous, imo. dual analogue after Ninty built N64 controler, built in rumble after Ninty introduced it and optical media, you know the Saturn right?

So every company adds something new in the end. And i agree with the conclusion that Ninty introduced many things on the console market and Sony makes them better . There's never given credit to the basic researchers, i doubt you know any of them.

Don't forget, without Ninty Sony most probably wouldn't be part of the gaming market at all.

All the inovations I mentioned were console specific features at some point, features that Nintendo copied, improved upon and pushed into the mainstream. I wrote a long post on it a while back, I had a point to prove and I spent about two hours researching the history of these features and what I found is that Nintendo isn't as innovative as people make out, it's just that they take their ideas from smaller companies and then market the hell out of them, making it seem as if it's a feature that is related specifically to them.

I said that Sony took old ideas and improved upon them, I didn't say they invented them, they did exactly what Nintendo did, the difference is that people don't give credit to Sony for those inventions, but they do give credit to Nintendo for their improvisions when they should be crediting the original creators. 

I could re-write the report and re-research everything on the topic, but I don't have the time or the patience to re-exaplain these things to overly sensitive Nintendo fans. I'll just add a few points:

- Donkey Kong copied Space Panic as a platformer game. Nintendo did not invent platform games.

- Sidescrolling platforming Mario was copied from Pitfall!! and Jump Bug. Nintendo did not invent sidescrolling platform games.

- The Game.com was the first touch screen gaming handheld. Nintendo did not invent touch screen gaming.

- Motion controls were first introduced on consoles by Sega with Samba di Amigo and the Sega Activator, before them it was something frequently used in the Arcades. Nintendo did not invent motion controls and were not the first to bring it to consoles.

- The first 3D platforming game was not Mario 64, it was Alpha Waves on the PC, the first on console was released on the PS1 and it was called Jumping Flash. Nintendo did not invent 3D platforming on consoles.

- The Vectrex was the first console to use an analogue stick. Nintendo did not invent the analogue stick.

- The first force feedback controllers were found on the PC, Nintendo popularized it on the console, but they didn't invent it.

I could list more, but I haven't got the time. Nintendo are as original as Lady Gaga in a steak costume, meaning that they aren't original at all, they just like to pretend that they are and the ignorant press and the overly obssessed Nintendo userbase just gobble it all up and treat it as truth. If you want to praise an innovate company, then praise Sega, despite their downfall, they've done more for new ideas in games than any other company on the market.

Good post.  I did make sure, in my earlier post, to state that Nintendo doesn't usually invent these new technologies (often times, it was a third party peripheral that did it first--ie the power glove or something) but Nintendo does seem to be the first to take the risk and say, "Okay.  This is what our console is going to be about."  They based their whole console on things like analog or motion controls or two screens (ie: Game and Watch).  I guess Nintendo is good at deciding when "the time is right" for these fledgeling technologies to become mainstream.

One of my very first posts on VGChartz was about this very same subject.  I said something along the lines of:  I could say I created the flying car and drive it off of a cliff.  It could fly for five seconds before sending me to my doom.  Nintendo could come along and make a flying car that actually works.  Yeah, I created the flying car but Nintendo got it right.  Then, Sony would come in and make a flying car and add air conditioning or something.

The things you mentioned before, Nintendo didn't do first.  But Nintendo got them right....and Sony got them "right-er".

Oh, and Game Informer did an article on who did what first a couple of months ago.  Could have saved you a lot of research!

It definitely was a good post. Nintendo did a bit less innovating than I thought (though I won't deny that Sony seems to polish used ideas).



                                                                                                             

CGI-Quality said:
d21lewis said:
Doobie_wop said:
ninty_shareholder64 said:
Doobie_wop said:
Nintendo are probably the least innovative manufacturer in the biz, Sony copies Nintendo's copied concepts, it's like stealing from a thief. Outside of maybe the rumble and the two screens on the DS, they haven't done that much. Now Sega is a whole different story, they've pretty much had a hand in nearly everything.

Sony works on old concepts and makes them better, every improvised concept they've done has basically become an industry standard (dual analogue, built in rumble, BC in consoles, optical media). This thread is an innocent one, but claiming Nintendo is innovative only means that you don't know to much about gaming history. I don't like when credit is given to undeserving companies, people could at leas be a little bit respectful towards the real creators of analogue sticks, touch screen gaming, 3D plat-forming, side scrolling plat-formers and console motion controls and not just throw all the praise on Nintendo just because they had the marketing budget to make the concepts well known.

The process of creating something new is always a long way. There are very many different people and/or companies involved. Of course analogue control, rumble, motion-controls etc. were invented before Ninty used it for their current console. Nevertheless, it was Ninty that invented these features as console-specific features, so of course Ninty innovates.

Do you think optical media, built in rumble etc. was invented from the very beginning from Sony? min 3 of your 4 arguments are rediculous, imo. dual analogue after Ninty built N64 controler, built in rumble after Ninty introduced it and optical media, you know the Saturn right?

So every company adds something new in the end. And i agree with the conclusion that Ninty introduced many things on the console market and Sony makes them better . There's never given credit to the basic researchers, i doubt you know any of them.

Don't forget, without Ninty Sony most probably wouldn't be part of the gaming market at all.

All the inovations I mentioned were console specific features at some point, features that Nintendo copied, improved upon and pushed into the mainstream. I wrote a long post on it a while back, I had a point to prove and I spent about two hours researching the history of these features and what I found is that Nintendo isn't as innovative as people make out, it's just that they take their ideas from smaller companies and then market the hell out of them, making it seem as if it's a feature that is related specifically to them.

I said that Sony took old ideas and improved upon them, I didn't say they invented them, they did exactly what Nintendo did, the difference is that people don't give credit to Sony for those inventions, but they do give credit to Nintendo for their improvisions when they should be crediting the original creators. 

I could re-write the report and re-research everything on the topic, but I don't have the time or the patience to re-exaplain these things to overly sensitive Nintendo fans. I'll just add a few points:

- Donkey Kong copied Space Panic as a platformer game. Nintendo did not invent platform games.

- Sidescrolling platforming Mario was copied from Pitfall!! and Jump Bug. Nintendo did not invent sidescrolling platform games.

- The Game.com was the first touch screen gaming handheld. Nintendo did not invent touch screen gaming.

- Motion controls were first introduced on consoles by Sega with Samba di Amigo and the Sega Activator, before them it was something frequently used in the Arcades. Nintendo did not invent motion controls and were not the first to bring it to consoles.

- The first 3D platforming game was not Mario 64, it was Alpha Waves on the PC, the first on console was released on the PS1 and it was called Jumping Flash. Nintendo did not invent 3D platforming on consoles.

- The Vectrex was the first console to use an analogue stick. Nintendo did not invent the analogue stick.

- The first force feedback controllers were found on the PC, Nintendo popularized it on the console, but they didn't invent it.

I could list more, but I haven't got the time. Nintendo are as original as Lady Gaga in a steak costume, meaning that they aren't original at all, they just like to pretend that they are and the ignorant press and the overly obssessed Nintendo userbase just gobble it all up and treat it as truth. If you want to praise an innovate company, then praise Sega, despite their downfall, they've done more for new ideas in games than any other company on the market.

Good post.  I did make sure, in my earlier post, to state that Nintendo doesn't usually invent these new technologies (often times, it was a third party peripheral that did it first--ie the power glove or something) but Nintendo does seem to be the first to take the risk and say, "Okay.  This is what our console is going to be about."  They based their whole console on things like analog or motion controls or two screens (ie: Game and Watch).  I guess Nintendo is good at deciding when "the time is right" for these fledgeling technologies to become mainstream.

One of my very first posts on VGChartz was about this very same subject.  I said something along the lines of:  I could say I created the flying car and drive it off of a cliff.  It could fly for five seconds before sending me to my doom.  Nintendo could come along and make a flying car that actually works.  Yeah, I created the flying car but Nintendo got it right.  Then, Sony would come in and make a flying car and add air conditioning or something.

The things you mentioned before, Nintendo didn't do first.  But Nintendo got them right....and Sony got them "right-er".

Oh, and Game Informer did an article on who did what first a couple of months ago.  Could have saved you a lot of research!

It definitely was a good post. Nintendo did a bit less innovating than I thought (though I won't deny that Sony seems to polish used ideas).


I think this whole thread is confusing the term innovation with invention. Seriously this whole thread, I been reading it over, and people are acting like they are one in the same. 

Nintendo is innovators of the industry, as they take the best technology they seem fit, and try to make it work. While Sony is the innovators that typically see something that already works, and incorporate it. 



 

Acevil said:
CGI-Quality said:

It definitely was a good post. Nintendo did a bit less innovating than I thought (though I won't deny that Sony seems to polish used ideas).


I think this whole thread is confusing the term innovation with invention. Seriously this whole thread, I been reading it over, and people are acting like they are one in the same. 

I'm not confused on it. Invention is something nobody has really done in the last 2 decades, but I'd agree that Nintendo has done the bulk of "innovating" of late. Just not on the level some make it out.



                                                                                                             

CGI-Quality said:
Acevil said:
CGI-Quality said:

It definitely was a good post. Nintendo did a bit less innovating than I thought (though I won't deny that Sony seems to polish used ideas).


I think this whole thread is confusing the term innovation with invention. Seriously this whole thread, I been reading it over, and people are acting like they are one in the same. 

I'm not confused on it. Invention is something nobody has really done in the last 2 decades, but I'd agree that Nintendo has done the bulk of "innovating" of late. Just not on the level some make it out.


My Second Part:
Nintendo is innovators of the industry, as they take the best technology they seem fit, and try to make it work. While Sony is the innovators that typically see something that already works, and incorporate it.  

See the both are innovators, one can be considered more, but people on both side of the camps, Nintendo and Sony are jumping the gun in this thread. Nintendo also incorporates things that already work as well.

Add: Nintendo does deserve the innovation title, but sony and microsoft aren't bad too. I get annoyed, when sony fans act like Nintendo has no hand in sony releasing products ala playstation move (I find it funny, as well), and when nintendo fans act all high and mighty and treat innovation as invention. All three companies are innovative companies. Also the playstation move is an innovation, but an innovation that is direct result to the wiimote.  



 

-I will say this, as far a motion controls are concerned: You GOTTA. See the differences between something like the Power Glove, Actvator, Samba De Amigo maracas, and a Sega Bass Fishing peripheral compared to something like the Wii Remote.

At the same time, you can't deny the similarities between devices like the Wii Remote (why is it that when I type" Wii" into my phone, the word" swimsuit" is one of the options?) And the PS Move. Just like how there's obvious similarities between the Eye Toy and Kinect. It's obvious that the latter draws similarities from the former. In the specific case of the Wii Remote, yeah it's a motion controller but it's a revolution among motion controllers like Mario was a revolution among 2D platformers.



mZuzek loves to pre-order