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Forums - Sony - Sony always improves Nintendo's innovations

sethnintendo on 13 June 2011
Hynad said:
sethnintendo said:
I'll counter the asset part of DVD drive in PS2. PS2 had numerous disc drive failures/read errors. It is pretty common knowledge that a ton of PS2 systems DVD drives failed. How is that an asset if you included something that makes the system less reliable. Sure it added benefit when it actually worked.

Wow, are you for real?  


I can't find any facts because Sony probably wants that hidden.  Anyways, when you type in PS2 failure rate into Google it doesn't help that people are comparing the failure rates of the 360 vs PS2.  The PS2 slim worked some of the problems out but the original PS2 model was about as good as the original PS1 model (which isn't saying much). 



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Hynad on 13 June 2011
sethnintendo said:
Hynad said:
sethnintendo said:
I'll counter the asset part of DVD drive in PS2. PS2 had numerous disc drive failures/read errors. It is pretty common knowledge that a ton of PS2 systems DVD drives failed. How is that an asset if you included something that makes the system less reliable. Sure it added benefit when it actually worked.

Wow, are you for real?  


I can't find any facts because Sony probably wants that hidden.  Anyways, when you type in PS2 failure rate into Google it doesn't help that people are comparing the failure rates of the 360 vs PS2.  The PS2 slim worked some of the problems out but the original PS2 model was about as good as the original PS1 model (which isn't saying much). 


I don't care about failure rate.  You're using this argument to counter the fact that the asset was added.  This reeks of grasping at straws when you've lost the argument in the first place.



Pavolink on 13 June 2011
goforgold said:
d21lewis said:
The thing is, while Nintendo doesn't typically create the new technology, they tend to be the ones that take the risk and say "Okay nobody is going to expect us to do this...." and it normally works. They base their entire system around something none of us would ever expect them to. Gotta give credit where credit is due.

Yeah, Sony made a portable console with an analog nub (and the PSV is gonna have two). Sony made a console with HD resolution. The things that Sony goes with are things that you or I could have come up with. The things Nintendo goes with are the "It's so crazy, it just might work" concepts.

Nobody could predict what the N64's controller would look like. Nobody could predict what the Gamecube controller would look like (loser or not, the face button design was genius). Nobody could predict what the Wii controller would look like and nobody could guess what the Wii U controller would look like. Sony is a great company but they tend to play it safe.*


*And don't give me that PS3 costs $600 so they didn't play it safe stuff, either. You and I know Sony planned to win this gen by piling on a bunch of expensive features and adding more power. That's the safe route.

nooo not really. a cheap 300 dollar slight ps2 upgrade would have been playing it safe. and you can't get more unsafe and risky than the cell processor

Sony do not play it safe at all, not justin hardware but software too, heavy rain vs the 1000th re-skin of the same mario game

the wii was the result of Nintendo having nothing to lose, the being genisus innovators

How is  a underpowered console that don't get even downports nothing to lose?



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile


kurasakiichimaru on 13 June 2011
Michael-5 said:
lightbleeder said:
Michael-5 said:

Everyone copies Nintendo. They are leaders for Innovation. However some of the upgrades you mentioned would have come naturally over time.

Rumble pack built in, did you expect that to remain a peripheral?

Also Wireless controllers, with built in batteries.

Literally everything is copied from Nintendo. The handheld controller, D-Pad, Start/Select buttons, 4 right thumb buttons (ABXY), shoulder buttons, rumble, wireless controllers, 4 player consoles, trigger buttons (Z on N64, gamecube trigger shoulders), Motion gaming, list goes on. MS only introduced the Home button, and Sony did duel analog with built in batteries, that's it.

P.S. PS1 controller with duel clicky analog sticks came before the N64 controller

The N64 was released on 06/23/1996 in Japan, the Dual Analog controller (the predecessor to the first DualShock that didn't have clickable thumbsticks) was released on 04/25/1997 in Japan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_Analog_Controller

OH WOW!!! I forgot, original PS1 controllers had no analog sticks!

That settles it, everyone copies Nintendo. However not everything is copied.

MS introduced achievements, a home button, and basically introduced online play onto consoles. They also made Kinect.

Sony introduced less, all I can think of is the built in battery pack to controllers, Eyetoy (but one can argue that's a copy of Gameboy Camera), and that's about it. Maybe Analog sticks for handhelds?

Nintendo leads with innovation, simple.

I just hope they introduce some form of achievement/trophy system with the Wii U. They are addictive, and I like completing my favorite games. Completing a Zelda would be a very daunting task, but I've done it for Ocarina of Time.

I'm pretty sure most of what Nintendo have done weren't really innovation. They were all done before.

Trophies existed on Gran Turismo  in the Simulation mode. Not sure if there were similar things like that from before although it's not online certificated.



sethnintendo on 13 June 2011
Hynad said:
sethnintendo said:
Hynad said:
sethnintendo said:
I'll counter the asset part of DVD drive in PS2. PS2 had numerous disc drive failures/read errors. It is pretty common knowledge that a ton of PS2 systems DVD drives failed. How is that an asset if you included something that makes the system less reliable. Sure it added benefit when it actually worked.

Wow, are you for real?  


I can't find any facts because Sony probably wants that hidden.  Anyways, when you type in PS2 failure rate into Google it doesn't help that people are comparing the failure rates of the 360 vs PS2.  The PS2 slim worked some of the problems out but the original PS2 model was about as good as the original PS1 model (which isn't saying much). 


I don't care about failure rate.  You're using this argument to counter the fact that the asset was added.  This reeks of grasping at straws when you've lost the argument in the first place.


Okay, so you don't care about re-buying a system or sending it off (having to pay if the warranty ran out).  Sure the DVD player to the PS2 did add value to the system and I can see the point that it led to video games being able to stream Netflix, etc...  This all lead to the home console system being more than just for video games.  Do I like products that offer more? Sure..  However, on many devices that multitask they are usually the jack of all trades, master of none.  

Anyways, failure rate matters to me a lot. I expect if manufacturers include something that it doesn't hamper the overall reliability of the system.  The whole entertainment center of the living room led Sony down the wrong path for the PS3 launch.  They stuffed so much into the PS3 that it drove the price out of most consumers.  You think a normal Mom and Dad would buy a $600 system for their kids to play even if it had Blu-ray?

I'll stop the argument over failure rates.  I would like to continue argument of adding features that affect the price to a point that it drives it out of the price range of the consumer.



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kurasakiichimaru on 13 June 2011
sethnintendo said:
Hynad said:
sethnintendo said:
Hynad said:
sethnintendo said:
I'll counter the asset part of DVD drive in PS2. PS2 had numerous disc drive failures/read errors. It is pretty common knowledge that a ton of PS2 systems DVD drives failed. How is that an asset if you included something that makes the system less reliable. Sure it added benefit when it actually worked.

Wow, are you for real?  


I can't find any facts because Sony probably wants that hidden.  Anyways, when you type in PS2 failure rate into Google it doesn't help that people are comparing the failure rates of the 360 vs PS2.  The PS2 slim worked some of the problems out but the original PS2 model was about as good as the original PS1 model (which isn't saying much). 


I don't care about failure rate.  You're using this argument to counter the fact that the asset was added.  This reeks of grasping at straws when you've lost the argument in the first place.


Okay, so you don't care about re-buying a system or sending it off (having to pay if the warranty ran out).  Sure the DVD player to the PS2 did add value to the system and I can see the point that it led to video games being able to stream Netflix, etc...  This all lead to the home console system being more than just for video games.  Do I like products that offer more? Sure..  However, on many devices that multitask they are usually the jack of all trades, master of none.  

Anyways, failure rate matters to me a lot. I expect if manufacturers include something that it doesn't hamper the overall reliability of the system.  The whole entertainment center of the living room led Sony down the wrong path for the PS3 launch.  They stuffed so much into the PS3 that it drove the price out of most consumers.  You think a normal Mom and Dad would buy a $600 system for their kids to play even if it had Blu-ray?


Well you get what you pay for.



d21lewis on 13 June 2011
fps_d0minat0r said:
1) sony had a ton of work done on motion controls before someone even thought of the wii (and kinect) it was like the combo of the two but back then in ps2 days the camera wasnt good enough and the technology was too expensive (and still is e.g. kinect, trackir) so they didnt do much with it.

2) wii u seems like what ps3/psp already did with lair years ago. but again the technology wasnt good enough (in terms of graphical power and analogue sticks. with NGP its possbile so just because they enter the market at a feasible time people will think they copy nintendo when the fact is they know the right time for the right technology.


I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Wii U seems more like what Gamecube/Gameboy advance did with Legend of Zelda years ago......



d0nni3 on 13 June 2011

Are we actually argueing about this?! Analog sticks were a simple way of including the single joystick onto a pad system, if some of you remember joysticks were the way games were played before pads became the norm all these companys did was shrink it down and stick it on a pad

motion controls were used in other fields before they came to consoles (this pre-dates Nintendo and Sony research by along way)

when it comes to shoulder buttons it was just a comfy way of getting more buttons on a pad in a reachable area and i'm amazed some of you even bought that up it's not innovation

Even if these companys were inventing tech for there consoles they can't all come out with different wacky ideas because they'd all be non-starters to copy and idea is not theft but flattery why is there this constant need to reinvent the wheel everytime!

This is a mindless arguement and it was always going to end up in a flame war sometimes we all need to step back and stop blindly defending these companys if any of them were to not exist the gaming world would be at a huge loss



d21lewis on 13 June 2011

http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/Foppzter/PS1-evolution2.jpg

Pretty much what I thought in 1995.



Hynad on 13 June 2011
sethnintendo said:
Hynad said:
sethnintendo said:
Hynad said:
sethnintendo said:
I'll counter the asset part of DVD drive in PS2. PS2 had numerous disc drive failures/read errors. It is pretty common knowledge that a ton of PS2 systems DVD drives failed. How is that an asset if you included something that makes the system less reliable. Sure it added benefit when it actually worked.

Wow, are you for real?  


I can't find any facts because Sony probably wants that hidden.  Anyways, when you type in PS2 failure rate into Google it doesn't help that people are comparing the failure rates of the 360 vs PS2.  The PS2 slim worked some of the problems out but the original PS2 model was about as good as the original PS1 model (which isn't saying much). 


I don't care about failure rate.  You're using this argument to counter the fact that the asset was added.  This reeks of grasping at straws when you've lost the argument in the first place.


Okay, so you don't care about re-buying a system or sending it off (having to pay if the warranty ran out).  Sure the DVD player to the PS2 did add value to the system and I can see the point that it led to video games being able to stream Netflix, etc...  This all lead to the home console system being more than just for video games.  Do I like products that offer more? Sure..  However, on many devices that multitask they are usually the jack of all trades, master of none.  

Anyways, failure rate matters to me a lot. I expect if manufacturers include something that it doesn't hamper the overall reliability of the system.  The whole entertainment center of the living room led Sony down the wrong path for the PS3 launch.  They stuffed so much into the PS3 that it drove the price out of most consumers.  You think a normal Mom and Dad would buy a $600 system for their kids to play even if it had Blu-ray?


Oh I do care for my consoles.  I bought 2 PS2s.  My first one got broken by a friend's kid, to whom I lent it.  And it didn't break from "normal usage".  Out of all the consoles I bought, my XBox 360 is the only one that didn't live long before failing (roughly over a year).   All of my other consoles are still "alive and well" to this day.  

As for the rest of your post, like all your recent posts, it have nothing to do with innovation, the thread's topic.