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Forums - Politics - Why is racism so normalized on social media in 2025?

Mnementh said:

In germany we have a joke this goes like this: A millionaire, a worker and an immigrant sit at a table with 10 dollar. The millionaire takes 9 dollar and says to the worker: Watch out, the immigrant wants to take your dollar!

This is basically how racism is used as a tool to misdirect attention away from the underlying system. The Republicans still use that formula, while the democrats use a modified one, they tell the black man: Watch out, the white worker has taken your dollar.

Either side uses racism to deflect attention away from the system, neither party challenges the neoliberal system. The reality is, that neither the immigrant, nor the black, nor the white workers want an excessive share of wealth, the majority of wealth was already soaked up by the super rich, which leaves the rest fighting for scraps. To change the system these groups need to unite, not to divide into even more and more sub- and identity groups which see themself slighted by other identity groups.

I don't recall any instance where a Democrat rallied against white working people.

An error you keep repeating is that you try to both-side American politics, also happens in your post that preceded the one I just quoted. While it's true that Democrats have done only little things over the years, they at least attempted to do something. American voters are in a tough situation due to the two-party system, but a chance for improvement - no matter how small - is still undoubtedly the better option than a guarantee for things to get worse.



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RolStoppable said:
Mnementh said:

In germany we have a joke this goes like this: A millionaire, a worker and an immigrant sit at a table with 10 dollar. The millionaire takes 9 dollar and says to the worker: Watch out, the immigrant wants to take your dollar!

This is basically how racism is used as a tool to misdirect attention away from the underlying system. The Republicans still use that formula, while the democrats use a modified one, they tell the black man: Watch out, the white worker has taken your dollar.

Either side uses racism to deflect attention away from the system, neither party challenges the neoliberal system. The reality is, that neither the immigrant, nor the black, nor the white workers want an excessive share of wealth, the majority of wealth was already soaked up by the super rich, which leaves the rest fighting for scraps. To change the system these groups need to unite, not to divide into even more and more sub- and identity groups which see themself slighted by other identity groups.

I don't recall any instance where a Democrat rallied against white working people.

An error you keep repeating is that you try to both-side American politics, also happens in your post that preceded the one I just quoted. While it's true that Democrats have done only little things over the years, they at least attempted to do something. American voters are in a tough situation due to the two-party system, but a chance for improvement - no matter how small - is still undoubtedly the better option than a guarantee for things to get worse.

I don't try both-side politics, I try neither-side american politics. The faulty assumption is, that you have support either the one or the other. You can reject both.

And which (even small) improvement? I already pointed out with actual data, that there was no improvement with either party in the past decades.



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sundin13 said:
pokoko said:

If the Left isn't geared toward elites and elite-wannabes then why is it so out of touch with the poor and the working class?  Why did people they thought they had wrapped up turn away?  Why are shows like The View still around, where the hosts sound like they have no idea what the real world is like?

More importantly, why did Democrats spend the last several years COMPLETELY ignoring lower income white people in their messaging, despite that being the largest group of poor in the US?  On the surface, does that make any sense at all?  I'll tell you why--because their well-off, "progressive" target class doesn't care about poor people unless they're some type of minority.  Not only do they not care but research indicates that they are actually prejudiced against lower income white people and have the mentality of "it must be their own fault".

I will also add that I don't believe many members of the Left care about poor racial minorities, either.  Lots of their policies and programs are badly thought out charities that do very little actual good.  They exist for show and only really serve to keep people dependent and voting for more, like addicts going back to their source.  It's pandering, pure and simple.  I kind of hoped the Left would reevaluate after recent elections but it looks like they're just going to double down and simply pray the Right screws up enough to let them back in the door.

I feel like this type of hyper-emotional arguing leaves me not really sure what to say. It's all about how you feel or what you personally believe. We aren't dealing with a shared reality or any set of debatable facts. There is just a fanfiction about the progressives that you've made up and are now attempting to wield in an argument. 

What am I supposed to do with that?

Here's what I'll say: Compare actual policy proposals and tell me what side hates the poor.

Look at the "Big Beautiful Bill", for example. The poorest Americans (lowest decile) are set to lose roughly 2-4% of their household resources, while the richest Americans are set to see their household resources increase by 2-4%. Thats hundreds of thousands of dollars going into the pockets of the richest people in this country every year and what fraction of that loss is being paid for is coming from the pockets of the poorest Americans, who will go hungry or avoid seeking necessary healthcare as a result. This is one of the most regressive bills in decades.

Is that the policy of a party that is truly looking out for the poorest Americans? 

As long as you're still doing the whole "my side are the good guys" thing, nothing you say has anything to do with reality.  If you're a reliable voter then you won't need reality, you can just follow the sound of the pipes.

You also clearly didn't read my entire post or you're simply misrepresenting what I said to make it fit into your dichotomy--and I refuse.  If you don't want to see the flaws in the side you support then that's on your head.  I don't care if you do or don't.

As far as which party cares about the poor, are you fucking joking?  Neither one gives a damn.  Wake up.

I went to a poor rural school, in a poor county, in a poor state.  We didn't have computers until a local company donated their outdated units from storage, which were completely useless by that point.  Not only could they not run modern software but we only had around 12 of them.  I remember sharing one with an older student but the teacher stopped teaching because he said there was no purpose.  Meanwhile, the big focus for the Democrats at the time were inner city schools.  That is all they cared about.  Not disadvantaged students in general, no, just those who met certain criteria.  The part that I find most ironic is that my graduating class was around 50% black, but they were fucked, too, because they shared a school with lower income white kids.

I remember reading that some of those inner city schools that were getting so much attention and support actually had advanced computer and networking classes.  That must have made those rich progressive white people really pleased with themselves.

Do you know what actually changes for the vast majority of the poor and working class when either Democrats and Republicans are in office?  Nothing.  If it did then people wouldn't get fed up and switch back and forth every few years.



pokoko said:
sundin13 said:

I feel like this type of hyper-emotional arguing leaves me not really sure what to say. It's all about how you feel or what you personally believe. We aren't dealing with a shared reality or any set of debatable facts. There is just a fanfiction about the progressives that you've made up and are now attempting to wield in an argument. 

What am I supposed to do with that?

Here's what I'll say: Compare actual policy proposals and tell me what side hates the poor.

Look at the "Big Beautiful Bill", for example. The poorest Americans (lowest decile) are set to lose roughly 2-4% of their household resources, while the richest Americans are set to see their household resources increase by 2-4%. Thats hundreds of thousands of dollars going into the pockets of the richest people in this country every year and what fraction of that loss is being paid for is coming from the pockets of the poorest Americans, who will go hungry or avoid seeking necessary healthcare as a result. This is one of the most regressive bills in decades.

Is that the policy of a party that is truly looking out for the poorest Americans? 

As long as you're still doing the whole "my side are the good guys" thing, nothing you say has anything to do with reality.  If you're a reliable voter then you won't need reality, you can just follow the sound of the pipes.

You also clearly didn't read my entire post or you're simply misrepresenting what I said to make it fit into your dichotomy--and I refuse.  If you don't want to see the flaws in the side you support then that's on your head.  I don't care if you do or don't.

As far as which party cares about the poor, are you fucking joking?  Neither one gives a damn.  Wake up.

I went to a poor rural school, in a poor county, in a poor state.  We didn't have computers until a local company donated their outdated units from storage, which were completely useless by that point.  Not only could they not run modern software but we only had around 12 of them.  I remember sharing one with an older student but the teacher stopped teaching because he said there was no purpose.  Meanwhile, the big focus for the Democrats at the time were inner city schools.  That is all they cared about.  Not disadvantaged students in general, no, just those who met certain criteria.  The part that I find most ironic is that my graduating class was around 50% black, but they were fucked, too, because they shared a school with lower income white kids.

I remember reading that some of those inner city schools that were getting so much attention and support actually had advanced computer and networking classes.  That must have made those rich progressive white people really pleased with themselves.

Do you know what actually changes for the vast majority of the poor and working class when either Democrats and Republicans are in office?  Nothing.  If it did then people wouldn't get fed up and switch back and forth every few years.

Would the world be better if no poor school got the fancy computers and networking classes? Because in a choice between one side that wants to do something (even if it doesn't affect you personally) and a side that wants to do none of that the former seems better. 



...

People on this thread really want us to believe racism was a thing in the 60s or 70s maybe

Then vanished from the earth like magic in a generation, and then started again in the 10s because of social media

This is not how society works. Racism was always pretty much always there, it just didn't have visibility because it couldn't be weaponized

People was simply way too afraid to actually demonstrate it. Internet made people fearless, that's all. In countries where there is no legislation to control speech, the only thing preventing you to say racist shit is to be afraid of social repercussions or even physical integrity. Internet removed the fear of repercussions, since it allows anonymity

I doubt half of the guys who state "people called me racist so I decided to be racist!" Would have the balls to be racist to a black person in real life



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Mnementh said:
sundin13 said:

Here's what I'll say: Compare actual policy proposals and tell me what side hates the poor.

Here's what I'll say: look at the results.

The Gini-index is the measurement of distribution of wealth towards complete equality (0) or complete inequality (all wealth to one person, everyone else has nothing - 1 or 100 depending on the scale). So here is the development over time for the US:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SIPOVGINIUSA

So, the Gini-index was slowly going down (more equal wealth distribution) until 1980. That is Ronald Reagan and his new neoliberalism. Actually, let's look at power distribution for the two parties over time, including not only presidency but house and senate as well:

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/jun/25/control-house-and-senate-1900/

So Reagan's neoliberal politics had quite the effect and changed the distribution towards the rich. So far that aligns with your hypothesis and I would say back then you were right. But the thing is - with the change of power towards the democrats it didn't change. Bill Clinton mostly preserved the status quo Reagan and Bush had created. After that the effect of which party is in power has a negligable effect on wealth distribution. For instance you see a small decline in the Gini-index (meaning more equality) starting 2006 to 2010. That is the end of the George W. Bush era and the start of the Obama era. But the rise afterwards falls also into the Obama era. The biggest effect on the Gini in post-Reagan era we see with the pandemic. But 2022 the Gini index rises again - with Joe Biden in the White house.

So yeah, for now 30 years neither party does anything substantial for the working class. Not anything that has an actual effect. The people don't notice superficial good looking policies (or maybe even well intended ones), what the see is that their life is not improving. Take notice that the Gini index isn't about recession or economic growth. However much wealth the economy produces, the Gini index is measuring how this wealth is distributed amongst the populace. So to speak about the fairness of the system. And that is the point here - after Reagan who clearly and strongly moved the needle towards more unfairness politics just kept keeping the status quo, regardless of party in power. Working class people noticed that, that despite all their words the Democratic party did little to really change anything.

I agree that politics was dominated by conservative economics from about Reagan to Trump pt. 1. I think we started seeing a bit of a shift during the Obama era, but it wasn't significantly felt in broader economic policy. I think we really started seeing the change in economic philosophy during that first Trump term and it was felt in policy in Biden's term (I think everyone would likely agree that Biden's presidency in 2022, looked a lot different from what a Biden presidency would have looked like in 2010). 

That said, I think reducing everything down to the GINI Index is simplifying things much too far. There is far more nuance to these discussions than one number can demonstrate.



pokoko said:
sundin13 said:

I feel like this type of hyper-emotional arguing leaves me not really sure what to say. It's all about how you feel or what you personally believe. We aren't dealing with a shared reality or any set of debatable facts. There is just a fanfiction about the progressives that you've made up and are now attempting to wield in an argument. 

What am I supposed to do with that?

Here's what I'll say: Compare actual policy proposals and tell me what side hates the poor.

Look at the "Big Beautiful Bill", for example. The poorest Americans (lowest decile) are set to lose roughly 2-4% of their household resources, while the richest Americans are set to see their household resources increase by 2-4%. Thats hundreds of thousands of dollars going into the pockets of the richest people in this country every year and what fraction of that loss is being paid for is coming from the pockets of the poorest Americans, who will go hungry or avoid seeking necessary healthcare as a result. This is one of the most regressive bills in decades.

Is that the policy of a party that is truly looking out for the poorest Americans? 

As long as you're still doing the whole "my side are the good guys" thing, nothing you say has anything to do with reality.  If you're a reliable voter then you won't need reality, you can just follow the sound of the pipes.

You also clearly didn't read my entire post or you're simply misrepresenting what I said to make it fit into your dichotomy--and I refuse.  If you don't want to see the flaws in the side you support then that's on your head.  I don't care if you do or don't.

As far as which party cares about the poor, are you fucking joking?  Neither one gives a damn.  Wake up.

I went to a poor rural school, in a poor county, in a poor state.  We didn't have computers until a local company donated their outdated units from storage, which were completely useless by that point.  Not only could they not run modern software but we only had around 12 of them.  I remember sharing one with an older student but the teacher stopped teaching because he said there was no purpose.  Meanwhile, the big focus for the Democrats at the time were inner city schools.  That is all they cared about.  Not disadvantaged students in general, no, just those who met certain criteria.  The part that I find most ironic is that my graduating class was around 50% black, but they were fucked, too, because they shared a school with lower income white kids.

I remember reading that some of those inner city schools that were getting so much attention and support actually had advanced computer and networking classes.  That must have made those rich progressive white people really pleased with themselves.

Do you know what actually changes for the vast majority of the poor and working class when either Democrats and Republicans are in office?  Nothing.  If it did then people wouldn't get fed up and switch back and forth every few years.

Of course there are flaws in the left. But the right had dragged itself so far down towards hell, that I can't imagine a modern MAGA republican ever being the right choice.

I'm also somewhat baffled by your anecdote. I don't know when or where you went to school, but it would be a lie to state that there were no efforts to help Rural schools. First of all, most school funding is provided by the State/Local funding, not Federal funding. With a lot of rural land being in red states which try to tax low, and don't provide much government funding, I feel like this problem largely is the result of Republican policies, but lets talk about some things that have been done:

One important piece of legislation that has been in the news recently is the Secure Rural Schools act. Originally passed in 2000 (under Bill Clinton), this increased funding to rural areas around the country by providing them funding to replace the loss of timber sales. This gave millions of dollars to many rural communities around the country. For a few decades it continued to be renewed, keeping many of these communities afloat until recently, during Republican spending fights, Mike Johnson refused to bring the bill containing it's renewal up for a vote and this funding to rural schools has since stopped.

Additional federal grant programs such as the Rural Education Achievement Program is also threatened by Trump's cuts to federal grants. It'll take a few years to see how the changes in the Education Department shake out, but this is a program that has been supported by federal dollars for many years.

Now, lets take a look at some more local policies. I don't know where you're from, so I just decided to search up one of the most Blue states in the country:

Massachusetts: 
Current Legislation - Rural School Aid
Current Proposed Legislation - Act to Provide a Sustainable Future for Rural Schools (Primary sponson in both House and Senate is a Democrat)

So, do Democrats support rural school funding: Yes. Is the funding enough? Probably not, but who is fighting to increase funding to all schools? Democrats.



I think racism is not dead yet, because it is kept on life support by people who would benefit from it. Grifters telling white people for a hefty price how racist they are. And for black people who want to use the false victim narrative as a shield against criticism, work, accountability and reason (e.g. BLM)

I am on the internet a fair bit, often looking at contentious social and political topics, including race relations in different countries. I almost never see racism, apart from some idiot colledge kids, woke professors, protesters, professional victims and ideologically captured news outlets. I get that this is not nothing, but if you account for the mentally disturbed and for people who do not need to work or even produce results or proof to stay in their position, I would say the rest, that is the big silent majority, is quite well adjusted.
Additionally I suspect that for every comment on the internet that was actually racist, we get a bazillion talking about it, falling over themselves to signal their virtue, and a bazillion more misinterpreting jokes and memes (as mentioned in the op) as racist, to again show how good and anti-racist they are. ... Perhaps a whole lot of this is just plain projection.

And if MLK was for equity, he was on the completely wrong track. Equity is poison to meritocracy and productive society. He should have much rather thought that black people would not need a hand out, that, given how generational wealth actually works (and how few people are actually wealthy to begin with), black people would make it at an equal playing field, because they are no worse than white people.

Equality before the law for all people who were made equal.
Equity for all races beneath that, unable to compete.



JuliusHackebeil said:

I think racism is not dead yet, because it is kept on life support by people who would benefit from it. Grifters telling white people for a hefty price how racist they are. And for black people who want to use the false victim narrative as a shield against criticism, work, accountability and reason (e.g. BLM)

I am on the internet a fair bit, often looking at contentious social and political topics, including race relations in different countries. I almost never see racism, apart from some idiot colledge kids, woke professors, protesters, professional victims and ideologically captured news outlets. I get that this is not nothing, but if you account for the mentally disturbed and for people who do not need to work or even produce results or proof to stay in their position, I would say the rest, that is the big silent majority, is quite well adjusted.
Additionally I suspect that for every comment on the internet that was actually racist, we get a bazillion talking about it, falling over themselves to signal their virtue, and a bazillion more misinterpreting jokes and memes (as mentioned in the op) as racist, to again show how good and anti-racist they are. ... Perhaps a whole lot of this is just plain projection.

And if MLK was for equity, he was on the completely wrong track. Equity is poison to meritocracy and productive society. He should have much rather thought that black people would not need a hand out, that, given how generational wealth actually works (and how few people are actually wealthy to begin with), black people would make it at an equal playing field, because they are no worse than white people.

Equality before the law for all people who were made equal.
Equity for all races beneath that, unable to compete.

Hundreds of years of handouts and federal assistance for white people to help them build wealth, from the Homestead Act to redlining and Levittowns (often which had disastrous consequences for the people left behind), but as soon the federal government could no longer discriminate against minorities, government assistance quickly became just immoral handouts for the lazy. 

How strange...


Meritocracy cannot exist without starting from a place of equality. 



pokoko said:
sundin13 said:

I feel like this type of hyper-emotional arguing leaves me not really sure what to say. It's all about how you feel or what you personally believe. We aren't dealing with a shared reality or any set of debatable facts. There is just a fanfiction about the progressives that you've made up and are now attempting to wield in an argument. 

What am I supposed to do with that?

Here's what I'll say: Compare actual policy proposals and tell me what side hates the poor.

Look at the "Big Beautiful Bill", for example. The poorest Americans (lowest decile) are set to lose roughly 2-4% of their household resources, while the richest Americans are set to see their household resources increase by 2-4%. Thats hundreds of thousands of dollars going into the pockets of the richest people in this country every year and what fraction of that loss is being paid for is coming from the pockets of the poorest Americans, who will go hungry or avoid seeking necessary healthcare as a result. This is one of the most regressive bills in decades.

Is that the policy of a party that is truly looking out for the poorest Americans? 

As long as you're still doing the whole "my side are the good guys" thing, nothing you say has anything to do with reality.  If you're a reliable voter then you won't need reality, you can just follow the sound of the pipes.

You also clearly didn't read my entire post or you're simply misrepresenting what I said to make it fit into your dichotomy--and I refuse.  If you don't want to see the flaws in the side you support then that's on your head.  I don't care if you do or don't.

As far as which party cares about the poor, are you fucking joking?  Neither one gives a damn.  Wake up.

I went to a poor rural school, in a poor county, in a poor state.  We didn't have computers until a local company donated their outdated units from storage, which were completely useless by that point.  Not only could they not run modern software but we only had around 12 of them.  I remember sharing one with an older student but the teacher stopped teaching because he said there was no purpose.  Meanwhile, the big focus for the Democrats at the time were inner city schools.  That is all they cared about.  Not disadvantaged students in general, no, just those who met certain criteria.  The part that I find most ironic is that my graduating class was around 50% black, but they were fucked, too, because they shared a school with lower income white kids.

I remember reading that some of those inner city schools that were getting so much attention and support actually had advanced computer and networking classes.  That must have made those rich progressive white people really pleased with themselves.

Do you know what actually changes for the vast majority of the poor and working class when either Democrats and Republicans are in office?  Nothing.  If it did then people wouldn't get fed up and switch back and forth every few years.

"nothing you say has anything to do with reality." is projection on your part. Your last post is completely full of shit, it amounts to nothing more than a lunatic rant that fails to make coherent points based in reality. And when you're confronted with a concrete argument on policy, you dismiss it with a straw man: "my side are the good guys".

"Do you know what actually changes for the vast majority of the poor and working class when either Democrats and Republicans are in office?" was literally self-refuted by your previous paragraph. "I remember reading that some of those inner city schools that were getting so much attention and support actually had advanced computer and networking classes. That must have made those rich progressive white people really pleased with themselves." Yeah! Funny how that works, when the inner city elects leftist politicians, they get leftist policies, and the rural regions that keep electing right-wingers do not. Do you not even understand these basic principles of representative democracy?

"That must have made those rich progressive white people really pleased with themselves." Is this another straw man, or do you actually believe you can read minds?

I mean, seriously, what response do you expect for these kinds of posts you're making?



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