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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Tropical Freeze or Mario Bros Wonder?

 

I think the best is...

Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze 31 53.45%
 
Super Mario Bros Wonder 27 46.55%
 
Total:58
curl-6 on 15 February 2024
JackHandy said:
mZuzek said:

the day I say Tropical Freeze is only as good as SMB3, I'll have gone clinically insane

lol. Fair enough.

But if you put Tropical Freeze on the NES, it would not be nearly as good as SMB 3 with Tropical Freeze's modern polish on the Wii-U--and that's my point. That under the hood, 2D peaked in the 8-16 bit era, and it's been all polish/gimmicks from there on out. That doesn't mean there hasn't been great 2D platformers since then, though. If they're done well, I still enjoy them. But yeah...

Tropical Freeze isn't just more polished than NES platformers, its dynamic levels are way beyond what you could do on the NES; the number of moving parts, the destructibility, the interplay of foreground and background elements, none of this was possible within the processing and memory constraints of 8-bit hardware.



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hellobion2 on 15 February 2024
HyruleZora said:

I can't believe I actually created an account only to post on this thread lol...
But anyway, both are great games, but DK: Tropical Freeze may be one of, if not, THE best 2d platformer ever made. The music, the controls, the levels and themes, the bosses and the multi-player aspect of it are all top notch. Although I HATE what they did on the Switch version (the Funky mode completely destroys some aspects of the game) the game is still untouchable by any other platformer imo.

Which version is better? 



BiON!@ 

JackHandy on 16 February 2024
pikashoe said:
JackHandy said:

lol. Fair enough.

But if you put Tropical Freeze on the NES, it would not be nearly as good as SMB 3 with Tropical Freeze's modern polish on the Wii-U--and that's my point. That under the hood, 2D peaked in the 8-16 bit era, and it's been all polish/gimmicks from there on out. That doesn't mean there hasn't been great 2D platformers since then, though. If they're done well, I still enjoy them. But yeah...

The fact that you are saying stripping away aspects of the game to put it on nes would make it worse proves that 2d platformers have evolved since that era. 

No, that's not my argument. My argument is that the things modern 2D games do better are mostly in the polish-and-presentation department; that if you put TF on the NES where that polish and presentation would have to be stripped away due to hardware limitations, what you'd have, on a basic, skeletal level, would be far less than you'd have with SMB 3. 

The last time I played a 2D game and felt a true sense of wow and awe on a basic, mechanical level was SMB 3 back in the day, which is why I consider it to be the peak of the genre. DKC would go on to wow me too, but looking back, it wasn't because it did anything mechanically better than Mario (it was a great game, though). It's because it looked and sounded amazing, and that's how I feel about all modern 2D games. They're prettier, more gimmicky, have better sound and save points etc. But at a basic, core design? No. Not even close. SMB 3 still (unfortunately) hasn't been topped, and I don't see how it ever will.

It's peak.

The GOAT.



CourageTCD on 16 February 2024
JackHandy said:
pikashoe said:

The fact that you are saying stripping away aspects of the game to put it on nes would make it worse proves that 2d platformers have evolved since that era. 

No, that's not my argument. My argument is that the things modern 2D games do better are mostly in the polish-and-presentation department; that if you put TF on the NES where that polish and presentation would have to be stripped away due to hardware limitations, what you'd have, on a basic, skeletal level, would be far less than you'd have with SMB 3. 

The last time I played a 2D game and felt a true sense of wow and awe on a basic, mechanical level was SMB 3 back in the day, which is why I consider it to be the peak of the genre. DKC would go on to wow me too, but looking back, it wasn't because it did anything mechanically better than Mario (it was a great game, though). It's because it looked and sounded amazing, and that's how I feel about all modern 2D games. They're prettier, more gimmicky, have better sound and save points etc. But at a basic, core design? No. Not even close. SMB 3 still (unfortunately) hasn't been topped, and I don't see how it ever will.

It's peak.

The GOAT.

Could you describe us which elements of gameplay and mechanical level that SMB3 has and the other plataforms haven't topped yet?



mZuzek on 16 February 2024
JackHandy said:
pikashoe said:

The fact that you are saying stripping away aspects of the game to put it on nes would make it worse proves that 2d platformers have evolved since that era. 

No, that's not my argument. My argument is that the things modern 2D games do better are mostly in the polish-and-presentation department; that if you put TF on the NES where that polish and presentation would have to be stripped away due to hardware limitations, what you'd have, on a basic, skeletal level, would be far less than you'd have with SMB 3.

And now I want a Tropical Freeze NES demake. That'd be so awesome.



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pikashoe on 16 February 2024
JackHandy said:
pikashoe said:

The fact that you are saying stripping away aspects of the game to put it on nes would make it worse proves that 2d platformers have evolved since that era. 

No, that's not my argument. My argument is that the things modern 2D games do better are mostly in the polish-and-presentation department; that if you put TF on the NES where that polish and presentation would have to be stripped away due to hardware limitations, what you'd have, on a basic, skeletal level, would be far less than you'd have with SMB 3. 

The last time I played a 2D game and felt a true sense of wow and awe on a basic, mechanical level was SMB 3 back in the day, which is why I consider it to be the peak of the genre. DKC would go on to wow me too, but looking back, it wasn't because it did anything mechanically better than Mario (it was a great game, though). It's because it looked and sounded amazing, and that's how I feel about all modern 2D games. They're prettier, more gimmicky, have better sound and save points etc. But at a basic, core design? No. Not even close. SMB 3 still (unfortunately) hasn't been topped, and I don't see how it ever will.

It's peak.

The GOAT.

SMB 3 is a pretty gimmicky game. I'd argue that tropical freeze is the less gimmicky game of the two. Honestly by your logic we could ask what does SMB 3 do better than SMB 1. On a basic mechanical level the game doesn't add much more than polish and gimmicks to the SMB formula going by your own logic.



curl-6 on 16 February 2024
JackHandy said:
pikashoe said:

The fact that you are saying stripping away aspects of the game to put it on nes would make it worse proves that 2d platformers have evolved since that era. 

No, that's not my argument. My argument is that the things modern 2D games do better are mostly in the polish-and-presentation department; that if you put TF on the NES where that polish and presentation would have to be stripped away due to hardware limitations, what you'd have, on a basic, skeletal level, would be far less than you'd have with SMB 3. 

The last time I played a 2D game and felt a true sense of wow and awe on a basic, mechanical level was SMB 3 back in the day, which is why I consider it to be the peak of the genre. DKC would go on to wow me too, but looking back, it wasn't because it did anything mechanically better than Mario (it was a great game, though). It's because it looked and sounded amazing, and that's how I feel about all modern 2D games. They're prettier, more gimmicky, have better sound and save points etc. But at a basic, core design? No. Not even close. SMB 3 still (unfortunately) hasn't been topped, and I don't see how it ever will.

It's peak.

The GOAT.

Tropical Freeze's dynamic levels aren't just a gimmick though, any more than Mario 3's powerups or world map are just gimmicks, they're an intrinsic element of the gameplay.

A level like the one in TF where a giant octopus attacks from the background and pulls apart the level around you as you try to dodge through it, that's beyond anything possible on NES hardware. 

Which is "better" is of course a matter of personal opinion, but to say that 2D platformers have only added polish, presentation, and gimmicks since the NES is reductive and untrue, they've also become much more dynamic.



Alex_The_Hedgehog on 16 February 2024

One thing I absolutely dislike about both Returns and Tropical Freeze is how they force you to play just as DK. You have the other Kongs as if they were gadgets.



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Smear-Gel on 17 February 2024

DKC is the peak. Several times while playing Wonder I thought "this was fun, but imagine how amazing the DKC version of this level would be." If they had a level theme they would do absolutely everything with it. I'm reminded of the tornado level. That level has you travelling with the tornado in the background, it has a section where the tornado is destroying the stage, a section where the tornado is throwing things at you, and it culminates in platforming while inside the tornado using the stuff blowing through it as platforms. My big Wonder comparison is Beware of the Rifts, which was a 10/10 concept that felt like it just got started before the level ended.

JackHandy said:
pikashoe said:

The fact that you are saying stripping away aspects of the game to put it on nes would make it worse proves that 2d platformers have evolved since that era. 

The last time I played a 2D game and felt a true sense of wow and awe on a basic, mechanical level was SMB 3 back in the day, which is why I consider it to be the peak of the genre. DKC would go on to wow me too, but looking back, it wasn't because it did anything mechanically better than Mario (it was a great game, though). It's because it looked and sounded amazing, and that's how I feel about all modern 2D games. They're prettier, more gimmicky, have better sound and save points etc. But at a basic, core design? No. Not even close. SMB 3 still (unfortunately) hasn't been topped, and I don't see how it ever will.

Honestly, level design wise I enjoy both SMW and NSMB more than SMB3 personally. Also I'd say that SMB3 can be gimmicky, it was arguably doing the one level gimmick before the modern DKC games were a thing with stuff like having only one or two levels that use the boot power up. A big thing for me is that the mario games after 3 adding the hidden exits and Star Coins/Yoshi Coins opened up their exploration so the levels felt a bit more fun to just explore and find secrets in. That's a big reason Wonder kind of disappointed for me, the Purple Coins were generally a lot less out of the way and the secret exists were mainly just extra Wonder Seed exits and that makes the levels a lot more straightforward. Still great game, but it did leave me wanting more.



Vodacixi on 17 February 2024
Alex_The_Hedgehog said:

One thing I absolutely dislike about both Returns and Tropical Freeze is how they force you to play just as DK. You have the other Kongs as if they were gadgets.

I agree. At least you can play as other Kongs in both Time Trial and Hard Mode. Also multiplayer, of course...