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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Starfield will be 30 fps on Xbox Series X and S.

KratosLives said:

I wish they'd build a new engine from scratch,instead of modifying it. There are things that are outdated in the showcase

If you start from scratch, your product will be more outdated, because implementing all the stuff seen as modern takes time. So I think you wish they switch to another engine like Unreal or id tech. But chances are they would struggle with the big seemless open worlds that Bethesda does since ages ago. I am not convinced at all, that switching the engine solves the performance issues.



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Kristof81 said:

Like with every generation of consoles, it comes a time when games outgrow the hardware.

It will run with 60fps in the Special 10 year anniversary edition for Xbox Season Y.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

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10 years greatest game event!

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Pemalite said:
Norion said:

It's a big deal for many cause a lower frame rate will heavily detract from the experience for them. And that's outdated marketing talk from three years ago. The CPU's in these consoles while better than the genuinely shite ones the gen 8 consoles had still aren't that capable so a game like Starfield is gonna be tough to run well. There's only so much mid-range hardware from 2020 can do.

People need to keep in mind that the Series X only has:

- 7 CPU cores reserved for gaming, 1 core/2 threads is for the OS and background tasks.
These only run at a max 3.8GHZ and are using the outdated Zen2 core.
Modern Zen chips will be upwards of 100% faster.

- 13.5GB of Ram for reserved for gaming. - OS takes 2.5GB.
Considering how DRAM intensive games are at the moment, you can only take it so far.

- Mid-Range Radeon 6700XT equivalent GPU with 560GB/s of bandwidth.
With RT, the capabilities of these chips tend to tank.

Add the desire to push 4k and the desire to push Ray Tracing, something will need to give, consoles run with fixed hardware, so developers need to start giving up resolution/performance to achieve targets.
Only way around it is with a mid-generation refresh console.

This is why despite many thinking the idea is silly a more powerful revision makes sense. That's gonna be needed to keep that push later this generation.



Shaunodon said:
SvennoJ said:

Just saw this piece in a Redfall interview

"There’s nothing that’s more difficult for me than disappointing the Xbox community,” says Spencer when asked about his reaction to the game's poor reception. “...just to kind of watch the community lose confidence, be disappointed, I’m disappointed, I’m upset with myself…”

Spencer continues by touching on the criticism of Redfall launching at 30 frames per second and how it goes against Microsoft’s original claim of first-party Xbox Series X/S titles always running at 60 FPS. “That was kind of our punch in the chin, rightfully, a couple of weeks ago,” he says before later assuring Arkane is on track towards delivering its previously promised 60 FPS performance mode. 

Starfield is first party now is it not? Another apology incoming?


Ehh if it runs at a locked 30fps without judder, steady frame pacing at release, that would already be a small miracle for a Bethesda title. But I'll wait for 2024 anyway, my beta testing days of Bethesda titles are over. I'll pick up a 2nd hand copy in Januari or so.

Where does "Microsoft’s original claim of first-party Xbox Series X/S titles always running at 60 FPS." come from?

I don't remember that, nor do I remember him apologising for breaking that claim during the interview. I'm pretty sure most gamers with common sense can't have expected Starfield being 60fps on console, and I doubt Xbox would ever be foolish enough to try and sell that illusion.

...Ok, I found the Game Informer article that you so conveniently didn't bother to link here, and ironically they were kind enough to link the twitter video of what they were apparently referencing--

"I think back to the announcement of 60fps, and then we weren't shipping 60fps..."

So logically hearing that, someone with common sense would assume he's just referring to Redfall. But obviously the hardworking game media chose to instead run with that and re-phrase his words, likely misquoting him and misinforming the public in order to create some buzz. Imagine my surprise.

And you obviously never bothered to fact check it. Imagine my surprise.

My bad, as well as for not linking the article. I blame Eurogamer for that (other site I visit frequently) as posting any links there practically kills any replies (posts with links are hidden for moderation approval which can take days doh)

So it was just an announcement for Redfall, figures. Anyway no apology needed for Starfield then, at least not for lacking a performance mode. And good MS clarified early as the expectations are certainly there
https://www.purexbox.com/news/2023/04/poll-do-you-think-starfield-will-contain-a-performance-mode-on-xbox-series-xs

Game Informer also in the suspect camp now. Sad days you have to fact check 'news' articles, but of course game journalists were never real journalists. (Not that fact checking in real news is much better)

Next next gen then for 60fps to become a standard :/



Personally was going PC on this one anyway, for optimization and bug-fixing mods (it's Bethesda afterall) but this makes that decision make even more sense.

They should definitely add a VRR mode with an update imo. I don't see why current gen consoles can't run this game at 45-60 fps.



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sc94597 said:

Personally was going PC on this one anyway, for optimization and bug-fixing mods (it's Bethesda afterall) but this makes that decision make even more sense.

They should definitely add a VRR mode with an update imo. I don't see why current gen consoles can't run this game at 45-60 fps.

Any additional performance modes probably take months of testing particularly for a game of this scale. They're not going to spend 1000s of man hours on a performance mode that will be shat on in gaming media for being unplayable, with the only saving grace being that the 1% of Xbox Series Owners with VRR displays can benefit. Especially considering the type of game it is, post launch content & bug fixing will be priority over a 60fps mode. 

Last edited by Otter - on 14 June 2023

While targeting fixed hardware as your main audience, you will ALWAYS end up having to decide between features/graphics/performance. In the case of a single-player, story-driven RPG, why would I want devs to cut back on features for the sake of FPS?
In this context, I'd be quite disappointed in any devs making the decision to go 60 fps at the expanse of pretty much anything else feature-wise. I mean, some here mentioned, and rightly so, Tears of the Kingdom as an example of a great game with a 30 FPS cap. How many would have liked it if Nintendo cut some features to have a 60 FPS target? I sure would be pissed off would it be the case.

30 fps won't hurt my enjoyment of the story and won't hurt my enjoyment of scenery worth standing still to look at anyway, it won't prevent me from building silly ships. What it will do though is allow for a more developed and thorough experience of the title visions at the expanse of a minor annoyance in fast-pacing gunplay moments with no real consequences.



Mnementh said:
KratosLives said:

I wish they'd build a new engine from scratch,instead of modifying it. There are things that are outdated in the showcase

If you start from scratch, your product will be more outdated, because implementing all the stuff seen as modern takes time. So I think you wish they switch to another engine like Unreal or id tech. But chances are they would struggle with the big seemless open worlds that Bethesda does since ages ago. I am not convinced at all, that switching the engine solves the performance issues.

 Listening to their QA team for once might.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Otter said:

Any additional performance modes probably take months of testing particular for a game of this scale. They're not going to spend 1000s of man hours on a performance mode that will be shat on in gaming media for being unplayable, with the only with the saving grace that the 1% of Xbox Series Owners with VRR displays can benefit. Especially considering the type of game it is, post launch content will be priority over a 60fps mode. 

Eh, performance mode patches are pretty standard these days, even in large-scale open-world titles.

Pipelining in development exists to reduce the man-hour scenario. Testers can test things in parallel as they wait for new content to be produced, as can developers as they wait for QA results. 

I do realize we're talking about Bethesda though -- a company that outsources a lot of its patching to the mod community then uses the results to create a dozen "editions" of the same title. 



sc94597 said:
Otter said:

Any additional performance modes probably take months of testing particular for a game of this scale. They're not going to spend 1000s of man hours on a performance mode that will be shat on in gaming media for being unplayable, with the only with the saving grace that the 1% of Xbox Series Owners with VRR displays can benefit. Especially considering the type of game it is, post launch content will be priority over a 60fps mode. 

Eh, performance mode patches are pretty standard these days, even in large-scale open-world titles.

Pipelining in development exists to reduce the man-hour scenario. Testers can test things in parallel as they wait for new content to be produced, as can developers as they wait for QA results. 

I do realize we're talking about Bethesda though -- a company that outsources a lot of its patching to the mod community then uses the results to create a dozen "editions" of the same title. 

Priority in a pipeline is orientated around opportunity cost, the reward of actually taking on a task.

There are probably 100 of things that will be ahead of a unstable 60fps mode. And again, you're not talking about a reliable 60fps mode, you're talking about a mode which at least hits 45fps for VRR users which is simply not valuable for the vast majority of Xbox gamers who do not have a VRR display. Such a mode will be at the bottom of the bucket list for a game like Starfield which in terms of testing will be magnitudes higher than probably all of the games you're seeing launch with performance modes. 

And I feel like people are throwing around "open world" comparisons a lot recently as if they're all made the same. Simply having a sandbox does not make a game incredibly complex. Beyond loading environments, A game like Horizon or Spiderman (for example) is probably closer to a single player title like TLOU compared to something like Starfield. They're not games where half the objects you come across have a physics component, can be picked up, stored, utililised, with 1000s of NPCs and their dynamic impact on the environment &  story being managed in real time. Its really apples and oranges. I won't give Bethesda a pass for launching games in a buggy state, but I also think people are doing the kind of games they make a disservice by comparing them to otherwise linear sandbox games or last gen/cross gen titles.