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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Game developers are blown away by Tears of the Kingdom

VAMatt on 30 May 2023
super_etecoon said:
VAMatt said:

I'm not qualified comment on the technical aspects of this stuff. But, I can say from a gamer's perspective that the ascend, fuse, and ultra hand mechanics are fun to play with, and they make the game feel unique. In fact, I think they really are one of the reasons that you don't hear many complaints about reuse of the BotW world. They have significantly changed the way that the gameplay works. When combined with the addition of the sky and the underworld, at some points, I barely even notice that I'm playing a game set in the exact same place as the last one.

This is the biggest reason I find fault with your very popular thread that you created on the day the game released.  I'm not going to call your thread bait, but I do think you are guilty of the adage: "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."  You are primed and ready for a Switch 2.  You're jumping at the opportunity to get on with the next revolution or next iteration, and I understand that.

But you chose the wrong nail to hammer.  TotK, mostly for the reasons you just mentioned, but also for the reasons outlined by the comments by developers in this thread, is a technical marvel and a joy to play that actually argues against your thesis.  If all games could come out with the polish, scope, and joy of this title we wouldn't have a need for any future Nintendo console.  Of course, that isn't the case and it certainly isn't what I'd argue for.  I just really think you chose the wrong vehicle for your argument.

So glad to see you come over to this thread and set the record straight for all of us.

I actually think that the "technical marvel" nature of this game reiterates my point in that other thread that it is being held back by the Switch. It's at the leading edge of game design in many respects. But, it is far behind graphically (and you'll note that I focused solely on graphics over there). And that, presumably, is due to the fact that the Switch hardware is way behind the other systems. The devs didn't sit down and say "let's make an amazing game, but make sure it doesn't look anywhere near as good as other, less spectacular games".  Rather, it appears that they sat down and said something like "let's push this tech as far as we can".  And even after doing that, and giving us some stuff that has rarely if ever been seen in gaming, and doing things that other developers can't even make sense of, the game still looks generations old.  

In order to not derail this thread, I think we should not take this topic any further over here.  If you want to have this discussion, we can take it to the other thread. Though, I think the topic has been pretty well beaten to death over there.  



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Kakadu18 on 30 May 2023

I believe graphics are the least important part of a game. A game can look cool, beautiful, stylish etc. even with so called generations old graphics.
TotK is a monumental technical achievement.



curl-6 on 30 May 2023

https://www.polygon.com/legend-zelda-tears-kingdom/23737921/tears-of-the-kingdom-bridge-physics-game-devs-explain

"The most complicated part of game development is when different systems and features start touching each other. It's really impressive. The amount of dynamic objects is why there are so many different kinds of solutions to this puzzle in particular. There are so many ways this could break."

- Shayna Moon, technical producer who's worked on games like God of War 2018 and Ragnarok

“Last time I saw something this impressive physics/gameplay wise was the rope in The Last of Us Part 2. And the rope only appeared in [a] few very controlled scenarios.” 

- Aadit Doshi, senior gameplay programmer, Rocksteady

“What’s extremely technically impressive is how stable it is and how it all fits together in a way where there’s no pre-programmed solution and players can solve puzzles with complete freedom."

- Josh Caratelli, senior engineer

https://www.gamesradar.com/game-devs-praise-viral-zelda-tears-of-the-kingdom-puzzle-no-physics-engine-i-ever-worked-with-could-do-this-easily/

"No physics engine I ever worked with could do this easily."

Last edited by curl-6 - on 30 May 2023

Jumpin on 31 May 2023

That praise gave me a smile, but I’m going to come in with the obvious nitpick on the video. “Current next gen hardware” :)



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

zeldaring on 31 May 2023

Zelda is using the havoc physics engine. what makes it so impressive is that it's doing so many things with out breaking the game in massive open world. No one is is gonna be able to do what zelda did with physics unless they use the same style graphics which is basically a 7th gen game and even then Nintendo spent a insane amount on money on BOTW and the average Japanese developers get paid peanuts compared to US and Europe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-y94o7hlMM

This game is next level physics but look at the graphics lol. 

Last edited by zeldaring - on 31 May 2023

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curl-6 on 31 May 2023
zeldaring said:

Zelda is using the havoc physics engine. what makes it so impressive is that it's doing so many things with out breaking the game in massive open world. No one is is gonna be able to do what zelda did with physics unless they use the same style graphics which is basically a 7th gen game and even then Nintendo spent a insane amount on money on BOTW and the average Japanese developers get paid peanuts compared to US and Europe.

The reason others haven't pulled off the things that Nintendo does here is not because of graphics.

It's not a matter of just throwing money at the problem either; the budget that many AAA games get on PS/Xbox/PC likely dwarfs any Nintendo game.

It's a matter of blood, sweat, tears, and sheer skill from some of the best developers in the world.



zeldaring on 31 May 2023
curl-6 said:
zeldaring said:

Zelda is using the havoc physics engine. what makes it so impressive is that it's doing so many things with out breaking the game in massive open world. No one is is gonna be able to do what zelda did with physics unless they use the same style graphics which is basically a 7th gen game and even then Nintendo spent a insane amount on money on BOTW and the average Japanese developers get paid peanuts compared to US and Europe.

The reason others haven't pulled off the things that Nintendo does here is not because of graphics.

It's not a matter of just throwing money at the problem either; the budget that many AAA games get on PS/Xbox/PC likely dwarfs any Nintendo game.

It's a matter of blood, sweat, tears, and sheer skill from some of the best developers in the world.

I'm only talking about technically here. if you look at tear down it has the best physics in a game ever, but most people and developers just care about graphics before zelda hardly anyone cared about physics. Nintendo turned physics into fun



curl-6 on 31 May 2023
zeldaring said:
curl-6 said:

The reason others haven't pulled off the things that Nintendo does here is not because of graphics.

It's not a matter of just throwing money at the problem either; the budget that many AAA games get on PS/Xbox/PC likely dwarfs any Nintendo game.

It's a matter of blood, sweat, tears, and sheer skill from some of the best developers in the world.

I'm only talking about technically here. if you look at tear down it has the best physics in a game ever, but most people and developers just care about graphics before zelda hardly anyone cared about physics.

Given how wildly popular both BOTW and now TOTK have been without cutting edge graphics but with a highly accomplished physics system as one of its key features, I don't think it's true that most only care for graphics.

People have cared about physics for decades. They were a selling point in tons of older games, from Crysis to Half Life 2.



zeldaring on 31 May 2023
curl-6 said:
zeldaring said:

I'm only talking about technically here. if you look at tear down it has the best physics in a game ever, but most people and developers just care about graphics before zelda hardly anyone cared about physics.

Given how wildly popular both BOTW and now TOTK have been without cutting edge graphics but with a highly accomplished physics system as one of its key features, I don't think it's true that most only care for graphics.

People have cared about physics for decades. They were a selling point in tons of older games, from Crysis to Half Life 2.

So 4 games in decades of gaming, and crisis was not a huge success, half life did good but nothing amazing. BOTW main selling point was freedom/exporation and not physics.  TOTK is like the first real one but it's also riding botw massive success. Graphics are much bigger selling point.



curl-6 on 31 May 2023
zeldaring said:
curl-6 said:

Given how wildly popular both BOTW and now TOTK have been without cutting edge graphics but with a highly accomplished physics system as one of its key features, I don't think it's true that most only care for graphics.

People have cared about physics for decades. They were a selling point in tons of older games, from Crysis to Half Life 2.

So 4 games in decades of gaming, and crisis was a huge success, half life did good but nothing amazing. BOTW main selling point was freedom/exporation and not physics.  TOTK is like the first real one but it's also riding botw massive success.

Okay we're done here. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but it's obvious you're only on this forum to stir up trouble and have no interest in being reasonable.