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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

Ryuu96 said:
HoangNhatAnh said:

Ukraine shares the border with Russia, when they join Nato, US will have the right to put their army at Ukraine, it's very near Moscow - a big threat to Russia. As a leader, Putin must act to protect Russia.

No, it isn't.

These are the rantings of a paranoid, crazy person (Putin), it's simply an excuse to do evil, how would America even be a big threat to Russia? Do we actually believe America would invade Russia unprovoked or something? If America wanted to attack Russia, they would have done so already but nobody wants a war with a nuclear capable country, that is exactly why the world isn't aiding Ukraine militarily right now.

I will repeat that Ukraine is a sovereign country and has the right to decide its own future, Putin isn't protecting Russia from anything, he is acting like Hitler, the only 'threat' of Ukraine joining NATO is that Russia can no longer invade it.

Also, NATO is a lot more than just America.

Maybe no to you, but yes to us. We - Vietnamese - know how dangerous US are since their invasion in the past.

And Nato was created to deal with Russia and their allies.



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HoangNhatAnh said:
Ryuu96 said:

The only one pushing Ukraine into an anti Russian stance is the country invading them.

A majority of Ukraine want to join NATO and a vast majority want nothing to do with Russia.

If they want to join it is their right to entertain that as a sovereign country.

This conflict will end with the least amount of casualties if mini Hitler gets his troops out, hopefully Ukraine puts up a resistance that makes it ultimately not worth it along with pressure domestically from protesters but it doesn't seem like Putin gives a damn about anything lately.

Ukraine shares the border with Russia, when they join Nato, US will have the right to put their army at Ukraine, it's very near Moscow - a big threat to Russia. As a leader, Putin must act to protect Russia.

Perhaps Putin shouldn't have spent his entire term in office making threats against his neighbors and expressing a desire to recreate the Societ Union/Russian Empire. Ukraine has every right to protect itself from Russia, and if that means seeking the protection of an alliance like NATO, so be it. Ukraine doesn't want to be a Russian puppet state like Belarus.

Putin and Xi were buddy-buddy all during the Beijing Olympics. They were building an economic and military alliance. So Putin himself is counting on Beijing's money plus up to 600 million Chinese citizens of military age to come to his rescue if things start going sideways for Russia.



forest-spirit said:

Putin most likely didn't expect the Ukrainians to fight back this hard. Even if Ukraine falls (which, unfortunately is likely to happen) it won't be the glorious victory he had been hoping for.

Yep, this is also what I think. I would add that Ukraine falling does not necessarily mean victory for Russia. The way I see it is every tanks, helicopter, plane they lost and every casualties they endure comes at a great cost which reduce their ability to occupy the land afterward. This compounded with the fact that their ability to finance themselves are greatly crippled make's it only a matter of time before Ukraine slip from Russian grasp once more. 

In all scenario that I can think of, Russia only end up loosing in the end as even with total capitulation from Ukraine the cost would still vastly outweighs benefits and eventually Ukraine will rise again independent weather it's in a year or 10 years or more. Once that happens nothing else other than casualties and socio-economics impacts will be left for Russia. 

Last edited by EpicRandy - on 25 February 2022

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Ryuu96 said:

It was very clear from Putin's insane speech about Ukraine's history that he doesn't give a damn about NATO considering he mentioned NATO like once during that speech? The rest of it was essentially how Ukraine doesn't deserve to exist as a country, as it's a former Soviet Union country.

This is just an insane leader who wants to make a legacy for himself and bring back the 'glorious' Soviet Union, NATO is nothing more than an excuse, if it weren't for NATO, he would use a different excuse, Ukraine was already rejected for NATO membership once before and even today was absolutely nowhere near joining NATO as they can't apply whilst in active conflict (Crimea).

It is so damn obvious that nobody wants this war aside from Putin, it caught even Putin's closest allies off guard, the obvious terror in his Government officials is plain to see, insane Hitler leaders will always find an excuse to do insane shit.

Exactly. This is a "blood and soil" move and nothing else. Also, Ukraine is very abundant with natural gases so it benefits Russia to invade. 

Everyone using NATO as a an excuse for Russia to invade, there was no real possibility of Ukraine joining NATO. It's literally just an excuse for Putin to invade. 

Last edited by smroadkill15 - on 25 February 2022

HoangNhatAnh said:
Ryuu96 said:

No, it isn't.

These are the rantings of a paranoid, crazy person (Putin), it's simply an excuse to do evil, how would America even be a big threat to Russia? Do we actually believe America would invade Russia unprovoked or something? If America wanted to attack Russia, they would have done so already but nobody wants a war with a nuclear capable country, that is exactly why the world isn't aiding Ukraine militarily right now.

I will repeat that Ukraine is a sovereign country and has the right to decide its own future, Putin isn't protecting Russia from anything, he is acting like Hitler, the only 'threat' of Ukraine joining NATO is that Russia can no longer invade it.

Also, NATO is a lot more than just America.

Maybe no to you, but yes to us. We - Vietnamese - know how dangerous US are since their invasion in the past.

And Nato was created to deal with Russia and their allies.

Your double standards are hilarious.

Russia is invading another country right now!

I bet you would care if that country was Vietnam and not Ukraine.



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Metallox said:

So Finland is smoothing the process for NATO application, diplomacy is apparently pushing Germany and Italy to accept the removal of Russia from SWIFT and the RF failed to secure its key objectives in the first hours of the invasion; prospect of a long war is looking more likely.

It sure looks like everything is against Russia, but what will it be its response? Way too convenient to say Putin expected a brief campaign with little resistance and a small insurgency afterwards and zero economical retaliations.

We'll see. Putin is not a stupid man, but that doesn't mean he is thinking rationally, either. It's possible that he genuinely believed that Ukraine would fold more quickly. He's not used to being balked. He also probably hoped that he would be able to appeal to Russian nationalism to shore up support for his regime, which doesn't seem to be the case.

I'm also wondering what the thoughts in China are. My concern is that they will try to take advantage of the Ukraine situation by making a play for Taiwan.



HoangNhatAnh said:
Ryuu96 said:

The only one pushing Ukraine into an anti Russian stance is the country invading them.

A majority of Ukraine want to join NATO and a vast majority want nothing to do with Russia.

If they want to join it is their right to entertain that as a sovereign country.

This conflict will end with the least amount of casualties if mini Hitler gets his troops out, hopefully Ukraine puts up a resistance that makes it ultimately not worth it along with pressure domestically from protesters but it doesn't seem like Putin gives a damn about anything lately.

Ukraine shares the border with Russia, when they join Nato, US will have the right to put their army at Ukraine, it's very near Moscow - a big threat to Russia. As a leader, Putin must act to protect Russia.

No closer than Belarus. - Still 800kilometers/500 miles.

Russia want's Ukraine for it's resources to be self sufficient.

Either way, NATO is and will always be on Russias doorstep, it's just a political excuse to justify certain actions to placate people.



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Yesterday I read some Ukrainian diplomats were tossing with the idea of suggesting the removal of Russia's permanent seat on the UN Security Council by challenging the status of the country as the successor of the USSR. That would've been interesting.



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

Sounds like they are expecting a full on assault tonight from all sides on Kyiv. I don't get Putin's attempt at taking out leadership. For one thing, it isn't honorable, and secondly the Ukrainians are already demonstrating more nationalism than the Russians expected and that will only be more aflame if their leader and his wife/kids become martyrs or prisoners sent to Syberia.



Chinese and Indians must be ashamed of their countries' abstention in UN resolution.