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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 25 February 2022

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KiigelHeart said:
Metallox said:

Whilst providing NATO members the best reason to not let them join. It's a very fucked up situation, Eastern European countries just can't catch a break. 

On another note, the Russian plan was to provoke a coup as soon as yesterday and more or less calm the waters in their favor, but if that didn't happen, is indeed thanks to the stiff resistance. 

Finland and Sweden aren't Eastern European countries. And both were invited to NATO summit, talk is they could be offering a quicker road to join.

It'll be interesting to see what we decide. It has been a debate here for a long time and I'm starting to lean towards joining. So far a big reason we haven't has been the hope Russia would leave us alone if we didn't. 

From my understanding, the previous NATO chair already concluded that Finland meet all the qualifications, and can supposedly join overnight.

I imagine that still stands, and that this was set up precisely for situations like this. So that Russia can't do what they did to Ukraine and attack before the NATO application can be processed.

I imagine Sweden has a similar agreement with NATO. A few years back during Wikileaks, it was reported that Sweden was a 'secret member of NATO'.
The reason Finland and Sweden did not formally join NATO must have been to not provoke an attack by Russia.

There's also the EU resolution that reads: 

"if an EU country is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other EU countries have an obligation to aid and assist it by all the means in their power"

Glossary of summaries - EUR-Lex (europa.eu)

U.K. unfortunately left the EU, but if Russia is having this much problem with isolated Ukraine who were ill prepared, then I doubt Russia can do shit against EU, outside of launching nukes.



Ukrainians are badass, damn brave, Zelensky has also been a great leader through this.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 25 February 2022

Finland defended themselves during WW2 against Russia and I bet they can again. They are part of true vikings. Kiev rus are offshoots.



Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 25 February 2022

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Ryuu96 said:
Branko2166 said:

Thank you for posting this link. The lecture by Professor Mearsheimer is very insightful and accurately breaks down the internal dynamics of Ukraine as well as the likely future outcome if the West keeps pushing the Ukraine toward a hard-line anti Russian stance.

Sadly, years later his insights have proven to be prophetic and the greatest victims in all this are the Ukrainians. Clearly there is a significant divide within Ukraine and it was also predictable that it joining NATO was Russia's red line. In that sense, Russia's current actions, as deplorable as they may be from an international law perspective are entirely predictable.

As a fellow Slav my heart bleeds for Ukraine but also for the average Russian as this is the definition of a fratricidal conflict. Talking from a cynical and Machiavellian perspective, the West not only will be sitting this out but they will be happy to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian. May this conflict end as soon as possible and I pray that the casualties of the innocent are minimised.

The only one pushing Ukraine into an anti Russian stance is the country invading them.

A majority of Ukraine want to join NATO and a vast majority want nothing to do with Russia.

If they want to join it is their right to entertain that as a sovereign country.

This conflict will end with the least amount of casualties if mini Hitler gets his troops out, hopefully Ukraine puts up a resistance that makes it ultimately not worth it along with pressure domestically from protesters but it doesn't seem like Putin gives a damn about anything lately.

Ukraine shares the border with Russia, when they join Nato, US will have the right to put their army at Ukraine, it's very near Moscow - a big threat to Russia. As a leader, Putin must act to protect Russia.



HoangNhatAnh said:
Ryuu96 said:

The only one pushing Ukraine into an anti Russian stance is the country invading them.

A majority of Ukraine want to join NATO and a vast majority want nothing to do with Russia.

If they want to join it is their right to entertain that as a sovereign country.

This conflict will end with the least amount of casualties if mini Hitler gets his troops out, hopefully Ukraine puts up a resistance that makes it ultimately not worth it along with pressure domestically from protesters but it doesn't seem like Putin gives a damn about anything lately.

Ukraine shares the border with Russia, when they join Nato, US will have the right to put their army at Ukraine, it's very near Moscow - a big threat to Russia. As a leader, Putin must act to protect Russia.

No, it isn't.

These are the rantings of a paranoid, crazy person (Putin), it's simply an excuse to do evil, how would America even be a big threat to Russia? Do we actually believe America would invade Russia unprovoked or something? If America wanted to attack Russia, they would have done so already but nobody wants a war with a nuclear capable country, that is exactly why the world isn't aiding Ukraine militarily right now.

I will repeat that Ukraine is a sovereign country and has the right to decide its own future, Putin isn't protecting Russia from anything, he is acting like Hitler, the only 'threat' of Ukraine joining NATO is that Russia can no longer invade it.

Also, NATO is a lot more than just America.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 25 February 2022



Putin most likely didn't expect the Ukrainians to fight back this hard. Even if Ukraine falls (which, unfortunately is likely to happen) it won't be the glorious victory he had been hoping for.



Metallox said:
Ryuu96 said:

Whilst providing them the best reason for joining NATO.

Whilst providing NATO members the best reason to not let them join. It's a very fucked up situation, Eastern European countries just can't catch a break. 

On another note, the Russian plan was to provoke a coup as soon as yesterday and more or less calm the waters in their favor, but if that didn't happen, is indeed thanks to the stiff resistance. 

Russia can talk all it wants about invading other nations that want to join NATO, but I highly doubt they will want a multi front, multi nation war going on. I think they won't do anything if Finland and Sweden join NATO, especially with how much of a disaster this Ukraine invasion has gone.