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Forums - Gaming Discussion - CGI's Party Of Graphics & Tech (9th Generation)

ZyroXZ2 said:
CGI-Quality said:

I agree that CP2077 was out of this world when it launched, but in 2022, it has been eclipsed in the open world space. From what I've seen, Forbidden West's NPCs quite easily top those. And that's before we get to animations and polycount.

I'd have to somewhat disagree.  In respect to peach fuzz, HFW wins.  But in reality, HFW uses cinematic lighting to show off asset levels that are the same as CP77, but CP77 operates within mostly natural lighting which makes these details far harder to discern (though is more realistic).  In fact, there are definitely points where the cinematic lighting in HFW is overused where it's just there to show off the detail but completely out of sync with the scene.

Sadly, I'm so inundated with reviews (yes, HFW review is in the works!) that I'm not going to take the time right now, but when you zoom in on some of the people's faces in CP77 versus HFW, there is MORE detail in things like the eyes and bump-mapping of how light hits the skin.  For the record, I'm not saying HFW isn't impressive (and running on a meager PS5, even!), but CP77 released beyond the capabilities most people ever saw or knew it was capable of.  In some ways, some of the photos people took in CP77 are still more impressive than what's in HFW, but that's down to the environment and camera's greater freedom than there is in HFW.

Having studied them both, I stand by what I said. Horizon uses higher polycounts and bigger shader maps for its characters. Cyberpunk has a slightly bigger world, so it wouldn't be on that level anyway and no character in the game comes anywhere close to Aloy. This is on top of the bushes, shrubs, and water technology that eclipse anything seen in Cyberpunk.

Where Cyberpunk has an advantage is in its use of raytracing, but feature-for-feature, it loses out to Horizon.



                                                                                                                                                           

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CGI-Quality said:
KratosLives said:

Death stranding and tlou2 are still the top 2 in my opinion.

Those characters, while nice, are also clearly previous gen. No functioning vellus hairs, lower polycounts, and smaller hair planes. That Martha model is a step up in all regards.

What those games did do well, particularly LOU, were maps and shaders. They were nearly unmatched last gen for that reason, but we're about to enter a whole new stage with these! Aloy is another recent example of the "steps up" in characters. Martha is an Indie game for example and they pulled off better visuals than a lot of AAA titles. It's all about how you use your resources and not always about budget.

visualy what I have seen in those 2 games, I haven't seen surpassed graphically. Though I haven't played returnal or forbidden west.

Regarding martha , can you point me towards footage of something special?



KratosLives said:
CGI-Quality said:

Those characters, while nice, are also clearly previous gen. No functioning vellus hairs, lower polycounts, and smaller hair planes. That Martha model is a step up in all regards.

What those games did do well, particularly LOU, were maps and shaders. They were nearly unmatched last gen for that reason, but we're about to enter a whole new stage with these! Aloy is another recent example of the "steps up" in characters. Martha is an Indie game for example and they pulled off better visuals than a lot of AAA titles. It's all about how you use your resources and not always about budget.

visualy what I have seen in those 2 games, I haven't seen surpassed graphically. Though I haven't played returnal or forbidden west.

Regarding martha , can you point me towards footage of something special?

Martha? As I noted — higher polycounts, better shaders, raytracing where it counts. You need to elaborate on what it is you're missing there.

The two other games you say haven't been passed visually lack some of those elements. LOU and Death Stranding are both very good looking last gen games (the former, in my eyes, is the best looking from that time period altogether). "Last gen" being the key words, though. As good as they still look, flat areas (lower texture maps and pre-raytraced lighting) are evident and many current gen games won't (and some already don't) suffer from that. This will be better highlighted when those two teams, KoJiPro and Naughty Dog, bring out their next games.

Can't speak for Returnal since I haven't played and dissected it, but Horizon, I'd say, is easily the best looking open world game out there.

Last edited by CGI-Quality - on 25 February 2022

                                                                                                                                                           

Martha Is Dead

Some of the best ground-to-grass mixes I've seen in a game.

Emphasizing again how Martha has some visually stunning shots of interiors!

Martha also has the best dark room photography I've ever seen outside of the strict 3D art world.



                                                                                                                                                           

Can't see it. Can you repost it. 

CGI-Quality said:

Martha Is Dead

Some of the best ground-to-grass mixes I've seen in a game.

Emphasizing again how Martha has some visually stunning shots of interiors!

Martha also has the best dark room photography I've ever seen outside of the strict 3D art world.

Last edited by CGI-Quality - on 27 February 2022

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dane007 said:

Can't see it. Can you repost it. 

CGI-Quality said:

Martha Is Dead

Just tried multiple browsers while signed out and I see it fine. You might need to check something on your end.



                                                                                                                                                           

CGI-Quality said:
dane007 said:

Just tried multiple browsers while signed out and I see it fine. You might need to check something on your end.

Can't see them either



I can see them. While the lighting looks nice, I was more impressed with the indoor environments from Tlou2. Pre-baked lighting sure, but the rooms also felt more realistic. I can't quite put my hand on it with the shots from Martha. Maybe it's the anisotropic filtering that makes it look a bit off.

The paintings on the wall are too flat and shiny. Not reflective in case they are framed (with glass) which they don't seem to be, yet too flat and shiny for having actual paint on them. The upholstery on the chairs also looks very off.

Tlou2 is much lower resolution though, the brain tends to fill in the missing pieces making it look better than it is






Of course apples / oranges. Major AAA studio on weak hardware, vs small team on whatever you can throw at it.



CGI-Quality said:

Martha Is Dead

Some of the best ground-to-grass mixes I've seen in a game.

Emphasizing again how Martha has some visually stunning shots of interiors!

Martha also has the best dark room photography I've ever seen outside of the strict 3D art world.

I had no idea that game had high-end 3D graphics, when I saw the thing about Sony censoring it, I assumed they had lost their mind, censoring some 2D horror game or something. After seeing this, and reading about what exactly Sony made the devs remove, I can sort of understand now why they did it, those are some pretty dark sequences for a game with high-end 3D 1st person graphics. I still don't condone their censorship, but I at least understand their reasoning now.

Last edited by CGI-Quality - on 27 February 2022

SvennoJ said:

I can see them. While the lighting looks nice, I was more impressed with the indoor environments from Tlou2. Pre-baked lighting sure, but the rooms also felt more realistic. I can't quite put my hand on it with the shots from Martha. Maybe it's the anisotropic filtering that makes it look a bit off.

The paintings on the wall are too flat and shiny. Not reflective in case they are framed (with glass) which they don't seem to be, yet too flat and shiny for having actual paint on them. The upholstery on the chairs also looks very off.

Tlou2 is much lower resolution though, the brain tends to fill in the missing pieces making it look better than it is




Of course apples / oranges. Major AAA studio on weak hardware, vs small team on whatever you can throw at it.

You're most likely looking for ambient occlusion (which is Martha's biggest weakness). That's why some things in the 3D space look as if they are floating. Props need better shadowing around their edges. Its anisotropic filtering is actually fantastic, however and part of why the textures look so good.

I'd still rate Martha's interiors above Last Of Us', though. Without raytracing, you don't get real-time reflections and that's one of my biggest gripes with many last gen games (particularly console games).

@shikamaru317 

Yeah, it's pretty spiffy looking game coming from a small team.