By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Hating Game Pass Makes You Look Foolish

smroadkill15 on 26 November 2021
curl-6 said:
ZyroXZ2 said:

The data literally says otherwise... Which even though the thread has mostly shut down these arguments on its own, is the whole "GP is bad for devs/publishers" and "GP kills game sales" and "GP isn't profitable" etc. etc. despite the data showing games on Game Pass still sell just fine on their own while increasing the sub counts for GP.  The data simply says, "money" which is the only thing these companies are after.

I literally never said anything about any of those things.

I said it's not turning the tide of the console war, which is true; PS5 is still easily outselling Xbox Series in spite of many claiming that Game Pass would be a killer app that would turn the sales war in Xbox's favour.

Many claim? Fanboy claims are not real. In the Series X|S expectation thread, the vast majority of the votes didn't predict Xbox reaching 90+ million, which I'm sure the Ps5 will hit 100+ easily. There really isn't anyone with realistic expectations that said Game Pass was going to boost Xbox sales above Ps5. There is an argument for it being a system seller because sales are higher overall and I'm sure some of it is attributed to Game Pass. The only thing that could cause a shift will depend on the output of Xbox Game Studios. 



Around the Network
Azzanation on 26 November 2021
curl-6 said:

I don't hate Game Pass. It's just not for me; I prefer to own my games.

People also often act like its this megaton killer app that's going to turn the tides of the console war, when the data says that simply isn't the case.

GamePass IS a killer App, just not the Killer App you expect it to be. GP is NOT an Xbox exclusive so that throws your entire point out the window when it comes to this "Console War" mentality.

Also this "Console War" mentality only exists in your head. Its not real. Both Sony and MS work together alot of the time to maximise there sales, not to tarish and destroy eachother. MS or Sony dont care what the other system sells, they only care for what there system sells. GP is bigger than ever and the Series X is sold out and 1st Party games are doing amazing, all with a service that exists that would actually take away the point of owning a Xbox or to buy their games.

These companies only care about money and will use eachother to make even more money, that's why they congratulate eachother when they do well. Because they both help bring in the customers to the industry. 

Last edited by Azzanation - on 26 November 2021

EricHiggin on 26 November 2021
LudicrousSpeed said:
EricHiggin said:

Your weak understanding of it is getting worse as you try to sweep it under. Is an explanation to a misunderstanding now to be known as stretching it, and not further explanation in the form of a reply? So many reaching for the moon in that case.

Do fancy restaurants market themselves as the best deal in the industry? All you can eat for as cheap as possible? Do they only offer typical utensils for consuming that food and not the extra's that add to the experience? Do they change their menu (asap) in a response to compete with fast food directly?

Who offers the "Dollar Menu"?

Can a Michelin star restaurant offer me Halo Infinite MP to be played on the most powerful console ever? No? Analogy ruined. 

Also there was nothing “controversial” about your first post, it was just not well thought out and made zero sense. Because, as I pointed out, GamePass is had loads of highly rated bangers that never leave the service. You compared the offering to a fast food chain full of quick cheap stuff. That’s not controversial it’s just plain incorrect 😁

Well since we're trying to be as reasonably comparable as possible across the board, by palatable/fancy restaurant I was talking about something comparable to consoles. Something for the masses. The Michelin Star console experience doesn't exist. That would be like PC elitist level, and someone who only plays AAA blockbusters.

Most powerful restaurant chain ever? Ba da ba ba  baaa...

I've got friends who think the Big Mac or the Whopper (always becomes an argument) are the greatest things since sliced bread. Like they prefer that over a fancy steak dinner. So, are those fast food sandwiches bangers then? They sure think so.

You clearly took offense to the fast food comparison. I made it clear I didn't have a problem with either situation. I ate tons of fast food when I was younger, like when I was a bigger XB fan than PS fan, but I don't eat fast food much anymore due to the unhealthy nature, plus I'd rather sit and relax at a more palatable/fancy restaurant. I've never been to an establishment like a Michelin Star before, and not because I couldn't. It's just not something I'd be into, like how I used to be into high end PC's, but never went PC elitist because that's just not me. I've always had a console no matter what.

Ryuu96 said:

The issue is, as Ludicrous has pointed out, Game Pass has both high quality/low quality, high budget/low budget titles, I don't see this "quality ratio" trending towards (as you would call them) 'fast food' experiences. In fact there's more Game Pass titles which are in the Green than Yellow + Red, although this graphic is about 5 months old.

As for the price argument, as I've said, I don't think it's a good argument, Gaming in general can quickly become very cheap if you simply wait a few months for prices to drop, food on the other-hand rarely (if ever) drops in price, that Chinese/Pizza will cost me the same as it cost me 2 years ago, heck, sometimes food will increase in price, Lol. Meanwhile games often receive price cuts and not that long after launch, you don't have to buy games at launch, they will become dirt cheap eventually too, it isn't specific to Game Pass.

For those reasons I would say Gaming in general is closer to 'fast food' than 'luxury dining', how much for example would a Michelin Star restaurant cost per head? Likely significantly more than a singular game. Do you think general customers of these high end restaurants have much overlap with gamers? Hardly I would say, we are already the fast food consumers, when you say Game Pass is like fast food, I think those same arguments can be used to say that the whole of gaming is like fast food.

I don't think your post is that controversial, it is simply a poor comparison, you're comparing two vastly different markets to each other, the reason why it's often compared to Netflix is because the markets are 'similar' as they're both in the entertainment sector, they're both subscription services, both compete for peoples time, Netflix in the past was a lot cheaper than it is now, the reason Game Pass has these cheap deals is to lure people into the ecosystem, they won't exist forever (also it's not $1 per month, it's $1 for new customers).

However, I will say even comparing to Netflix isn't an exact comparison, Netflix and Game Pass will require different subscriber counts to achieve profitability, both will have different budgets in mind (in terms of how much it costs to make games versus tv shows) but it is a hugely better comparison than comparing it to the culinary industry, Lol.

As I pointed out, fast food chains also have higher quality, healthier meals as well. Though as I said, that's not the norm and not what most people come to order though.

As for the game scores, how many people think those scores are close to where they should be, or even matter whatsoever? There's been some huge controversy over some games and their far too high, or to low scores. Which scores are accurate enough, and what exactly are we comparing those scores to?

I've only been to a few palatable/fancy restaurants in my life that didn't have a special. If you want the special, it's cheaper, though not fast food cheap. Fast food tends to have an even cheaper menu like the "Dollar Menu". Just a dollar for what they're offering.

Didn't a console brand increase the price of it's games this gen? Did it do that because of the high quality AAA experiences they're known for? Can some of those games be AA, or A, experience? Do more palatable/fancy restaurants offer some lesser sized, lesser quality meals, though far pricier than a fast food meal?

You at least are onto the fact I'm not saying console gaming is like a Michelin Star. Console experiences are for the masses. Michelin Star is not. That's why I said more palatable/fancy. Not exquisite luxury dining.

Isn't entertainment consumed? Isn't food consumed? That argument can easily be made. Just like how Netflix is 'let us entertain you', while gaming is, 'let us help you entertain yourself'. Sony Interactive Entertainment vs Sony Pictures Entertainment. That's not just coincidence.

GP is also being marketed by MS as, "the full Xbox experience", where as their competitors require many different offerings for the full experience.

I have to agree here. Bringing food into the conversation, especially fast food, was unthinkably, foolish..



EricHiggin on 26 November 2021
zero129 said:
EricHiggin said:
Ryuu96 said:

The issue is, as Ludicrous has pointed out, Game Pass has both high quality/low quality, high budget/low budget titles, I don't see this "quality ratio" trending towards (as you would call them) 'fast food' experiences. In fact there's more Game Pass titles which are in the Green than Yellow + Red, although this graphic is about 5 months old.

As for the price argument, as I've said, I don't think it's a good argument, Gaming in general can quickly become very cheap if you simply wait a few months for prices to drop, food on the other-hand rarely (if ever) drops in price, that Chinese/Pizza will cost me the same as it cost me 2 years ago, heck, sometimes food will increase in price, Lol. Meanwhile games often receive price cuts and not that long after launch, you don't have to buy games at launch, they will become dirt cheap eventually too, it isn't specific to Game Pass.

For those reasons I would say Gaming in general is closer to 'fast food' than 'luxury dining', how much for example would a Michelin Star restaurant cost per head? Likely significantly more than a singular game. Do you think general customers of these high end restaurants have much overlap with gamers? Hardly I would say, we are already the fast food consumers, when you say Game Pass is like fast food, I think those same arguments can be used to say that the whole of gaming is like fast food.

I don't think your post is that controversial, it is simply a poor comparison, you're comparing two vastly different markets to each other, the reason why it's often compared to Netflix is because the markets are 'similar' as they're both in the entertainment sector, they're both subscription services, both compete for peoples time, Netflix in the past was a lot cheaper than it is now, the reason Game Pass has these cheap deals is to lure people into the ecosystem, they won't exist forever (also it's not $1 per month, it's $1 for new customers).

However, I will say even comparing to Netflix isn't an exact comparison, Netflix and Game Pass will require different subscriber counts to achieve profitability, both will have different budgets in mind (in terms of how much it costs to make games versus tv shows) but it is a hugely better comparison than comparing it to the culinary industry, Lol.

As I pointed out, fast food chains also have higher quality, healthier meals as well. Though as I said, that's not the norm and not what most people come to order though.

As for the game scores, how many people think those scores are close to where they should be, or even matter whatsoever? There's been some huge controversy over some games and their far too high, or to low scores. Which scores are accurate enough, and what exactly are we comparing those scores to?

I've only been to a few palatable/fancy restaurants in my life that didn't have a special. If you want the special, it's cheaper, though not fast food cheap. Fast food tends to have an even cheaper menu like the "Dollar Menu". Just a dollar for what they're offering.

Didn't a console brand increase the price of it's games this gen? Did it do that because of the high quality AAA experiences they're known for? Can some of those games be AA, or A, experience? Do more palatable/fancy restaurants offer some lesser sized, lesser quality meals, though far pricier than a fast food meal?

You at least are onto the fact I'm not saying console gaming is like a Michelin Star. Console experiences are for the masses. Michelin Star is not. That's why I said more palatable/fancy. Not exquisite luxury dining.

Isn't entertainment consumed? Isn't food consumed? That argument can easily be made. Just like how Netflix is 'let us entertain you', while gaming is, 'let us help you entertain yourself'. Sony Interactive Entertainment vs Sony Pictures Entertainment. That's not just coincidence.

GP is also being marketed by MS as, "the full Xbox experience", where as their competitors require many different offerings for the full experience.

I have to agree here. Bringing food into the conversation, especially fast food, was unthinkably, foolish..

You do know the more you post about fast food and trying to trow silly mame like images into it is just making you look more silly right?, or here

I guess like Ryuu said all gaming is fast food enjoy your meal.

All gaming is online subscription services? Enjoy your poor connection and eventual server shut down's?

Na, you see, immediate direct accuracy is necessary apparently. You left out the fridge comparison. Therefore instantly nullified argument.

Them's the rules, I guess.



LudicrousSpeed on 26 November 2021
EricHiggin said:

You clearly took offense to the fast food comparison. 


Not at all, because it clearly comes from a place of ignorance. Again, you’re just wrong ? 



Around the Network
EricHiggin on 26 November 2021
zero129 said:
EricHiggin said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

Can a Michelin star restaurant offer me Halo Infinite MP to be played on the most powerful console ever? No? Analogy ruined. 

Also there was nothing “controversial” about your first post, it was just not well thought out and made zero sense. Because, as I pointed out, GamePass is had loads of highly rated bangers that never leave the service. You compared the offering to a fast food chain full of quick cheap stuff. That’s not controversial it’s just plain incorrect ðŸ˜Â

Well since we're trying to be as reasonably comparable as possible across the board, by palatable/fancy restaurant I was talking about something comparable to consoles. Something for the masses. The Michelin Star console experience doesn't exist. That would be like PC elitist level, and someone who only plays AAA blockbusters.

Most powerful restaurant chain ever? Ba da ba ba  baaa...

I've got friends who think the Big Mac or the Whopper (always becomes an argument) are the greatest things since sliced bread. Like they prefer that over a fancy steak dinner. So, are those fast food sandwiches bangers then? They sure think so.

You clearly took offense to the fast food comparison. I made it clear I didn't have a problem with either situation. I ate tons of fast food when I was younger, like when I was a bigger XB fan than PS fan, but I don't eat fast food much anymore due to the unhealthy nature, plus I'd rather sit and relax at a more palatable/fancy restaurant. I've never been to an establishment like a Michelin Star before, and not because I couldn't. It's just not something I'd be into, like how I used to be into high end PC's, but never went PC elitist because that's just not me. I've always had a console no matter what.

Ryuu96 said:

The issue is, as Ludicrous has pointed out, Game Pass has both high quality/low quality, high budget/low budget titles, I don't see this "quality ratio" trending towards (as you would call them) 'fast food' experiences. In fact there's more Game Pass titles which are in the Green than Yellow + Red, although this graphic is about 5 months old.

As for the price argument, as I've said, I don't think it's a good argument, Gaming in general can quickly become very cheap if you simply wait a few months for prices to drop, food on the other-hand rarely (if ever) drops in price, that Chinese/Pizza will cost me the same as it cost me 2 years ago, heck, sometimes food will increase in price, Lol. Meanwhile games often receive price cuts and not that long after launch, you don't have to buy games at launch, they will become dirt cheap eventually too, it isn't specific to Game Pass.

For those reasons I would say Gaming in general is closer to 'fast food' than 'luxury dining', how much for example would a Michelin Star restaurant cost per head? Likely significantly more than a singular game. Do you think general customers of these high end restaurants have much overlap with gamers? Hardly I would say, we are already the fast food consumers, when you say Game Pass is like fast food, I think those same arguments can be used to say that the whole of gaming is like fast food.

I don't think your post is that controversial, it is simply a poor comparison, you're comparing two vastly different markets to each other, the reason why it's often compared to Netflix is because the markets are 'similar' as they're both in the entertainment sector, they're both subscription services, both compete for peoples time, Netflix in the past was a lot cheaper than it is now, the reason Game Pass has these cheap deals is to lure people into the ecosystem, they won't exist forever (also it's not $1 per month, it's $1 for new customers).

However, I will say even comparing to Netflix isn't an exact comparison, Netflix and Game Pass will require different subscriber counts to achieve profitability, both will have different budgets in mind (in terms of how much it costs to make games versus tv shows) but it is a hugely better comparison than comparing it to the culinary industry, Lol.

As I pointed out, fast food chains also have higher quality, healthier meals as well. Though as I said, that's not the norm and not what most people come to order though.

As for the game scores, how many people think those scores are close to where they should be, or even matter whatsoever? There's been some huge controversy over some games and their far too high, or to low scores. Which scores are accurate enough, and what exactly are we comparing those scores to?

I've only been to a few palatable/fancy restaurants in my life that didn't have a special. If you want the special, it's cheaper, though not fast food cheap. Fast food tends to have an even cheaper menu like the "Dollar Menu". Just a dollar for what they're offering.

Didn't a console brand increase the price of it's games this gen? Did it do that because of the high quality AAA experiences they're known for? Can some of those games be AA, or A, experience? Do more palatable/fancy restaurants offer some lesser sized, lesser quality meals, though far pricier than a fast food meal?

You at least are onto the fact I'm not saying console gaming is like a Michelin Star. Console experiences are for the masses. Michelin Star is not. That's why I said more palatable/fancy. Not exquisite luxury dining.

Isn't entertainment consumed? Isn't food consumed? That argument can easily be made. Just like how Netflix is 'let us entertain you', while gaming is, 'let us help you entertain yourself'. Sony Interactive Entertainment vs Sony Pictures Entertainment. That's not just coincidence.

GP is also being marketed by MS as, "the full Xbox experience", where as their competitors require many different offerings for the full experience.

I have to agree here. Bringing food into the conversation, especially fast food, was unthinkably, foolish..

You do know the more you post about fast food and trying to trow silly mame like images into it is just making you look more silly right?, or here

I guess like Ryuu said all gaming is fast food enjoy your meal.

zero129 said:
EricHiggin said:

All gaming is online subscription services? Enjoy your poor connection and eventual server shut down's?

Na, you see, immediate direct accuracy is necessary apparently. You left out the fridge comparison. Therefore instantly nullified argument.

Them's the rules, I guess.

So you agree with me then? that all gaming is like fast food or where you really just here using that to try shit on gamepass??

And yeah for the fridge here

Know its not real only in your dreams, since you seem to love the xbox mini fridge i bet you would love a PS5 one

I've seen the concept before, and it's interesting, but PS5 looks better as it is.

It's also not a silly, meme, that became a 'serious' real product that was congratulated.

As for my intentions, again (aside from you), below, my not so controversial initial post (A), so I'm told, that wasn't a problem, explained why below (B).

A)

EricHiggin said:

I wouldn't say hating fast food makes anyone look foolish.

Some would rather, or prefer to sit down and eat at a more palatable or fancy restaurant chain and spend a little extra if they have to for that. This tends to limit your consumption to a degree however. Some have the means to gorge though.
Others are fine, or prefer sitting down or driving thru a fast food chain, since it's cheap, easy, and quick. Which also tends to mean you can eat more if you like due to the low cost and less filling meals. Some don't have the means though, so a number one, will have to suffice.

Both have their upsides and downsides. I think very few would really want to live in a world with only one or the other. Each has their place in their own way. Why not have it your way?

B)

LudicrousSpeed said:

Can a Michelin star restaurant offer me Halo Infinite MP to be played on the most powerful console ever? No? Analogy ruined. 

Also there was nothing “controversial” about your first post, it was just not well thought out and made zero sense. Because, as I pointed out, GamePass is had loads of highly rated bangers that never leave the service. You compared the offering to a fast food chain full of quick cheap stuff. That’s not controversial it’s just plain incorrect 😁

Could I even agree if I wanted to based on this if it makes no sense whatsoever?

The answer is no however. I do not agree all gaming is fast food, just like it's not all online subscription services.

Some full experience gaming is like cheaper fast food, while some more expensive gaming is like a more palatable/fancy restaurant.



EricHiggin on 26 November 2021
LudicrousSpeed said:
EricHiggin said:

You clearly took offense to the fast food comparison. 


Not at all, because it clearly comes from a place of ignorance. Again, you’re just wrong 😁 

What about zero, below?

zero129 said:

So you agree with me then? that all gaming is like fast food or where you really just here using that to try shit on gamepass??

You said I made "zero sense". 

zero says "all gaming is like fast food" in reference to Ryuu.

So which is it? Are we all wrong?



LudicrousSpeed on 26 November 2021
zero129 said:

holy shit lol



curl-6 on 27 November 2021
ZyroXZ2 said:
curl-6 said:

I literally never said anything about any of those things.

I said it's not turning the tide of the console war, which is true; PS5 is still easily outselling Xbox Series in spite of many claiming that Game Pass would be a killer app that would turn the sales war in Xbox's favour.

Whether you're slyly shifting the goal post or not: the large part of the console war IS all of those things I said that many fanboys argue against Game Pass.  Game Pass is part of the console war, and the data is shutting down the "against" arguments.  And with Xbox embracing "any device" (well, other than Nintendo/PlayStation lol), you're choosing a particular metric for the sake of argument while ignoring the bigger status of how "gamers" try to mystify and downplay Game Pass simply due to the lack of basic math

I'm not shifting any goalposts. I am addressing the claims of others that Game Pass would turn the tide of the console sales war. It clearly hasn't as we can see on the front page of this site not only has PS5 sold far more units but the gap is only growing. Other criteria simply aren't what I was talking about.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 27 November 2021

Machiavellian on 27 November 2021
curl-6 said:
ZyroXZ2 said:

The data literally says otherwise... Which even though the thread has mostly shut down these arguments on its own, is the whole "GP is bad for devs/publishers" and "GP kills game sales" and "GP isn't profitable" etc. etc. despite the data showing games on Game Pass still sell just fine on their own while increasing the sub counts for GP.  The data simply says, "money" which is the only thing these companies are after.

I literally never said anything about any of those things.

I said it's not turning the tide of the console war, which is true; PS5 is still easily outselling Xbox Series in spite of many claiming that Game Pass would be a killer app that would turn the sales war in Xbox's favour.

The problem with this point is that people are way to concentrated on the Console War.  GP is not going to change the console war because MS is not invested in the console war.  GP scope is beyond the console and the prize MS is looking at is gaming in General.  They are looking at every device that can play games and want GP on it.  Its the reason you have a browser extension to play GP on any device.  Its the reason MS will be coming out with a Dongle for GP.  We also probably will see integration on a TV soon.  The difference between GP and PS Now is that Sony does not want PS Now to compete with PS hardware and only really offer it on such hardware.  MS has already decided that GP will not be tied to any hardware and does not care if it competes with Xbox hardware.  The 2 companies are in totally different paths when it comes to their services which is why when people view everything through the "Console War" lens they only see a narrow view of what MS is going for.